TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Twice as long?
I don't think so. That's pure nonsense. He was a dominant player in both domestic Russian hockey in the late 70's all the way through the end of his time there which was the end of the 1980's. In that time frame he was a 9 time first team AS and 3 time league MVP. Not to mention his massive impact on the international stage. That after being in a car wreck that killed a person and injured Fetisov badly.
He lead the Soviet National Team to seven gold medals in World Championships, two gold medals in the Olympics and a gold medal in the Canada Cup, some coming against the greatest NHL players of that era and all time (Gretzky, Lemieux, Bourque, etc)
Here's the IIHF Centennial All Star Team:
The selection was organized by the International Ice Hockey Federation and named in 2008. The panel comprised 56 ice hockey experts from 16 countries representing a balance between North American and European countries, and included people who have worked in the game for an extended period and whose opinions are widely respected. One of the 56 votes represented the collective opinion of the staff of The Hockey News. No single voter's entire selection was the same as the final team.
Fetisov is not only on the list, but he's the top vote getter, by a wide margin, over some guy named Gretzky and other Soviets like Makarov, Kharlamov, Tretiak.
- Goaltender: Vladislav Tretiak (Soviet Union) – 30 votes
- First defenceman: Viacheslav Fetisov (Soviet Union) – 54 votes
- Second defenceman: Börje Salming (Sweden) – 17 votes
- First winger: Valeri Kharlamov (Soviet Union) – 21 votes
- Second winger: Sergei Makarov (Soviet Union) – 18 votes
- Centre: Wayne Gretzky (Canada) – 38 votes
This is a player that Gretzky called the greatest defensemen he ever faced, along with Potvin. Better than even Ray Bourque? Apparently so.
If you take away Gretzky in the early to mid 1980's one could argue Fetisov was the most dominant hockey player in the entire world, which would mean a hell of a lot more than Shore being the best in the world in the 1920's and 30's where hockey essentially existed only in North America (on a professional level to be sure).
What does Shore have on Fetisov besides spending more time in the box? Was he a better offensive player at his peak? I don't think so. Defensively? Not at all. Better skater? Nope. I mean he was more physical but the difference was Fetisov could dominate playing that style without resorting to constant dirty tactics and things that jeopardized his TEAM.
You brought up the voting record from the top 100 project and I'm not one to shy away from responding to anything.
Let me enlighten folks a bit:
1. I had Shore dropping into the teens, for reasons I've posted here and times before. I find him a bit overrated. I've been on that ship for a while. He ended up at 14. Fetisov at 25. I think Shore is about where he should be but Slava should be just inside the top 20 (along with Ovi). He's basically a mirror image of Potvin, with Potvin being a touch more impactful offensively but Fetisov was more dominant in his own end. They both played a very, very physical brand of hockey without being careless too much. Fetisov was an elite skater as well. In retrospect I think Fetisov and Potvin are more or less one in the same. I think I underrated Ovechkin a bit as well. I've not been immune to selling some of the non NHL Euro's short, in large part because I know less about them in a grand scheme.
2. Yes, Fetisov was outside the top 20 for me, at the time, and while I'll certainly admit that having him on my team means I'm going to go to bat for him, investigating him more in depth, as I tend to do in these situations sheds more light on just how dominant he was. It's not like I'm suggesting he is better than Shore. I just think, if there is a gap, it's rather small (not that 14 to 25 is that big anyway).
3. Not long before the project started my wife walked out on me. Divorce proceedings ensued and went into the summer (nothing malicious, we're on very cordial terms, but anyone who's gone through a divorce, with a child involved, knows how hard it is and how much time it consumes). In late summer i took a pretty big promotion which cut my availability even more (i made mention of this numerous times in the project). I think it was around the 40's/50's portion where I dropped out completely. It was really only about the first two rounds where I was invested enough to make big contributions or study players effectively.
I've now been at my current job just over a year, am more comfortable there, and am in a much better place personally speaking. Bumping Fetisov up a little bit, is (because I pride myself on being authentic) partly because he's on my team but largely because I've actually had the time to read up on him, watch video's, scour this forum for past studies, debates, etc. I've never owned him before, in any draft, and most of us, tend to dig the most on players when we draft them.
I still think Shore is a slight edge here in the grand scheme overall, but in a 7 game series, Fetisov gives Pittsburgh a staunch advantage IMO. As I said before, he's somebody I'd easily put into the top 10 greatest big game players of all time. In the biggest moments, I'd trust Fetisov to impact the game positively more than Shore. That's just history talking.
And the original point when comparing players and pairs, was that I think Horton to Gerard is why the top pairing tilts Pittsburgh's way. Horton being a top 60-70 player ever and Gerard being on the outside of the top 100 (i'd wager in the 110-125 range).
As for Fetisov "sucked" playing North American hockey? He wasn't an elite player certainly, but sucked? No.
ESPN Classic - Fetisov's iron will matched his iron defense
In 6 years with NJ, he scored 130 points in 341 games and was never a negative player (+44). In fact, over the course of his NHL "career", he was never on the wrong side of the +/- category. That may not seem like anything special and it certainly wasn't but sucked? No. I think we can all find a boatload of players
Why? Context. A LOT of it.
Fetisov is one of they most important players in history when it comes to breaking the grip of the Iron Curtain which held its players prisoner (Communism, what a rich history it has, yawn). He trail blazed for so many that came after him.
I don't think people understand just how difficult it would have been for a man who didn't speak English, going from a country that literally did everything different from the western world, meaning the cultural difference were staggering, the game of hockey was very different, etc. Not to mention playing D and understanding and executing the nuances of that position is the toughest challenge in hockey, IMO.
How many people did Fetisov know in the US? Not many. Family? Nope. Not to mention the perception of Soviets/Russians and the stigma they endured.
Plus, Fetisov was 31 when he came over. This isn't like players of today coming and going from one side of the world to the other when they're teenagers or early 20's/primes, where not only developed nations being more similar, enjoying similar freedoms, comings and goings, etc.
He had spent his entire LIFE in Stalinist/Communist USSR. If anyone has even a shred of understanding how different that world was compared to the United States or Canada at the time, they'd be able to put context into Fetisov's transition to the NHL. I've been an American abroad, having stepped foot in over 30 nations. It's not an easy thing to simply travel and communicate effortlessly in many cases, today. And that's just a person moving about, not uprooting an entire life, playing a professional game, past your prime, in a very, very deep and talented era in hockey history. The pressures he faced would have been too much to handle for 99.9% of people out there.
Do you think he was the only Soviet/Euro who needed years to adjust upon arrival? Not at all.
I'm well aware of everything good said about Slava Fetisov. And yet, even you ranked him decisively under Eddie Shore... until you drafted him.
