Speculation: 2019 offseason thread IV

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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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Not always, but whatever fits your narrative.

Reports are generally always correct In major media like this. Some details might be off, but the story at large is true. You’re free to point out I’m wrong with examples if you find them.

Here’s my supporting articles to my “narratives.” I know reading takes time. But give it a whirl when you have time, if you wish.

SIMMONS SAYS: Kawhi wanted to be part player, part GM

https://nypost.com/2019/09/11/evgeni-malkin-forced-penguins-to-choose-between-him-and-phil-kessel/

Sidney Crosby always skates with young players on his line. Here's why.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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Jarmo ready to strike ?


Ran it through Google Translate (see below for first few paragraphs), and my presumption is that all that is is "Hey, look, the one Finnish GM in the NHL might target a Finnish superstar! for the first time ever in his NHL career". They're claiming that there's a particular interest in Rantanen, but I can't tell if that's from actual sources or just that site's speculation.

The Columbus Blue Jackets are well placed to recruit, for example, Patrik Laine or even Mikko Rantanen.

According to Ilta-Sanomat, the Columbus Blue Jackets chase after the Colorado Avalanche's Mikko Ranta.

Rantanen does not currently have a contract, but Colorado still owns his player rights. Kekäläinen had already tried to kidnap young Toronto star Mitch Marner earlier in the summer, but Marner wanted to stay in the Maple Leafs. Now Kekäläinen may be ready to try his luck again at Rantanen.

[...]

Avalanche has all the prerequisites to keep Rantanen, as the club has over $ 15 million in salary cap space, and their NHL group is out of Turku. Nonetheless, according to IS, Kekäläinen is very feverishly behind Rantanen. In order to get a Finnish player, Kekäläinen would have to offer Rantanen over $ 10 million in annual earnings. Even then, it would be very possible for Colorado to exercise its right to keep the player on equal terms.
(emphasis re-added from article)
 
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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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18 of those goals came in November (the second highest goal scoring month of any player ever). The other 12 were spread across 5 months. From January 1st onward he had 6 goals, with only 2 of them being at even strength. He was a minus 24 on a winning team. I think it's a really bad statline, you might think otherwise but I'm not of the opinion that a player must be valuable just because he had 50 pts. He was honestly just painful to watch. I think the Jets would have been better off without him on the roster last year.

And what about his first two seasons? Don’t matter because he had a bad year last year?
 

MAHJ71

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Reports are generally always correct In major media like this. Some details might be off, but the story at large is true. You’re free to point out I’m wrong with examples if you find them.

Here’s my supporting articles to my “narratives.” I know reading takes time. But give it a whirl when you have time, if you wish.

SIMMONS SAYS: Kawhi wanted to be part player, part GM

https://nypost.com/2019/09/11/evgeni-malkin-forced-penguins-to-choose-between-him-and-phil-kessel/

Sidney Crosby always skates with young players on his line. Here's why.
None of these articles are detailing a star player directly throwing his coach and linemate under the bus.

My point still stands that none of the players you mentioned, have spoken negatively during a long contract holdout -- or in a way that is detrimental to the team. Malkin is the closest to getting a partially bad reputation -- but not on the level Laine is currently achieving.

Lastly, I'm not 100% against adding Laine -- but your assertion that what he's currently doing is okay/no big deal is bogus.
 

Toe Pick

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Jun 13, 2011
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It's normally a pretty safe assumption that when a roster player is traded for draft picks, to get cap space, that he'll just get traded for the best offer. And that offer for Gusev was a 2nd + 3rd rounder, so implicitly Jarmo didn't put a bigger offer out there. It's not that complicated.

And yes, I changed my mind on Gusev after watching more video. I posted the review here with the video two months ago now. What's the big deal? Am I not allowed to do that?

It’s very logical and UNcomplicated to connect the dots that we had serious interest and cap space but not the draft capital to complete the deal that Vegas would accept.

Stop being obtuse.

”There were two teams that made offers, and we went back and forth for probably a couple weeks. There’s a certain time when it’s time to pull the trigger. If there were 10 or 12 teams coming hard after us then maybe you take a little more time, but it was two and it’s been two for a long time, so it was time.”

A source said they believe the other team to make a bid for Gusev outside of New Jersey was the Columbus Blue Jackets, but that offer fell short of the two-pick package the Devils offered.

McPhee made it very public he was willing to deal Gusev, and yet no team in the league offered more than a second and third-round pick.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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None of these articles are detailing a star player directly throwing his coach and linemate under the bus.

My point still stands that none of the players you mentioned, have spoken negatively during a long contract holdout -- or in a way that is detrimental to the team.

That’s fair, and I don’t love the comments by Laine myself, but I don’t think it was meant maliciously. I think he just wants to play more and with the best players, but his comments can easily be construed to be detrimental. Regardless, I don’t think it should be a reason to avoid him as he’d be immediately on our top line and with our best players.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
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It’s very logical and UNcomplicated to connect the dots that we had serious interest and cap space but not the draft capital to complete the deal that Vegas would accept.

Stop being obtuse.
I think majormajor's presumption isn't that we lacked the draft capital; we just weren't willing to put it up that high for Gusev. Price affects one's interest, after all.

(Personally, I could go either way. We've certainly got sufficient assets to do arguably better than those two draft picks, but on the other hand, draft picks aren't necessarily fungible assets and maybe NJ just really badly wanted that particular year or something. I don't see either particularly poorly reflecting on Kekalainen, tho.)
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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It’s very logical and UNcomplicated to connect the dots that we had serious interest and cap space but not the draft capital to complete the deal that Vegas would accept.

Stop being obtuse.

I suppose you might be right and Jarmo maybe offered a couple 3rds or something and Vegas insisted on a second rounder, and Jarmo would have done it if he had a 2nd rounder and that was the end of it.

I think that's unlikely. Draft picks are fungible, the most highly liquid assets in the league, especially later round picks a year or more away in the future. I'd bet it's more likely he offered a decent amount, like a couple 3rds, and when Vegas asked for more, Jarmo decided against putting in more value (like an additional 4th or a B prospect) because he would rather have the picks than Gusev. 28 other GMs also didn't offer as much, it's more likely that Jarmo's opinion was closer to that consensus (that Gusev isn't worth 2nd + 3rd). I'm honestly not trying to be obtuse, I'm making the case for what I think is the most likely course of events.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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And what about his first two seasons? Don’t matter because he had a bad year last year?

It matters but I'm not confident. This is a player that has the potential to make our team worse. Or he might be great. Who knows. But Laine can't seem to come to terms with his own issues, and that's the best indicator to me that he's not getting better any time soon.
 

Toe Pick

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I think majormajor's presumption isn't that we lacked the draft capital; we just weren't willing to put it up that high for Gusev.

No way of knowing since we didn’t have the bullets.

But with Panarin bolting and the reported weeks long interest — I gotta think Jarmo would have put both seconds he gave away for Dzingle on the table to beat Jersey’s offer.

Obviously nobody in the league was putting a first out there for this guy and rightfully so as too many question marks. That would also take us out of any offer sheet scenario — which to your point on the mains, I think Jarmo uses more as a Brandon Saad pressure tactic to do a fair trade.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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We've certainly got sufficient assets to do arguably better than those two draft picks,

Yes certainly, but this seems to be contested here. It seems like people think we were beggars at the store. Case in point:

we didn’t have the bullets.

draft picks aren't necessarily fungible assets

A 2nd rounder in 2021? That's got to be fungible. Not that every GM will give you that value straight off the draft pick value chart, but some GM will.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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Draft picks are fungible
No, they're not. Liquidity and fungibility are not the same thing. There's a significant difference between our 2nd rounder and any other team's 2nd rounder. (We can't do an offer sheet with another team's 2nd rounder, for example.)
 

majormajor

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No, they're not. Liquidity and fungibility are not the same thing. There's a significant difference between our 2nd rounder and any other team's 2nd rounder. (We can't do an offer sheet with another team's 2nd rounder, for example.)

I see what you mean. Asset fungibility kind of blurs the distinction between fungibility and liquidity. And I was thinking of the value of a specific pick on the value chart, like a 50th, not to the round in general.

But in any case, liquidity is one of the things being contested here. Did Jarmo have the liquidity to top the Devils offer if he thought Gusev was worth it? I think the answer is yes, without trouble.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,660
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40N 83W (approx)
I see what you mean. Asset fungibility kind of blurs the distinction between fungibility and liquidity. And I was thinking of the value of a specific pick on the value chart, like a 50th, not to the round in general.
There's only one 50th overall pick in 2021. There aren't any others. ;) Things may be close in value without being fungible.

But in any case, liquidity is one of the things being contested here. Did Jarmo have the liquidity to top the Devils offer if he thought Gusev was worth it? I think the answer is yes, without trouble.
I'm fairly sure he did, yeah.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
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Never thought I'd see the day that I'd come on here and wish I saw Dubinsky buyout talk...

Is it 7pm yet??
 

CBJx614

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May 25, 2012
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Ran it through Google Translate (see below for first few paragraphs), and my presumption is that all that is is "Hey, look, the one Finnish GM in the NHL might target a Finnish superstar! for the first time ever in his NHL career". They're claiming that there's a particular interest in Rantanen, but I can't tell if that's from actual sources or just that site's speculation.


(emphasis re-added from article)
10M and 4 1sts is a lot of give up...but the kid might be worth it.
 

JohnnyJacket13

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Apparently Big Buf is contemplating retirement while on his personal leave from the team....If he does retire, there's gotta be something brewing with Winnipeg and adding a defenseman. Sure, Ristolainen and Faulk are available, but it makes sense that we'd be looking to move one of our defenders for a forward. I'm wondering if there's a deal to be made around Savard/Murray and Connor.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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Apparently Big Buf is contemplating retirement while on his personal leave from the team....If he does retire, there's gotta be something brewing with Winnipeg and adding a defenseman. Sure, Ristolainen and Faulk are available, but it makes sense that we'd be looking to move one of our defenders for a forward. I'm wondering if there's a deal to be made around Savard/Murray and Connor.

That would be great. And it would help Winnipeg from the perspective that Laine could move to 1st line, cap problems would be lessened and the Jackets would have a solid top 6 LW who wants a long term deal.
 
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Finner

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Dec 8, 2018
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Kekäläinen is making offersheet for Laine and Rantanen? I really hope not. Laine maybe for reasonable deal but Rantanen is 9-10M/y and i cant see him making such a difference in this team. With Nathan he can do 100points but i think hes linemates makes him better. Of couse he is elite player but still id take Laine for 6-7M than Rantanen for 9-10M
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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Dave Pagnotta from TFP was on Sirius yesterday and said the Jackets were 1 of 2 teams who sent an offer sheet to Marner

Didn't the agent say they didn't send an offer sheet, that Jarmo just asked Marner's camp if he'd do a long term deal (longer than 5 years) and they said no?

That's what was reported by Friedman in July, and is now being recycled a couple months later with new reports that aren't actually changing what we knew.
 
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