Speculation: 2019 Off Season Roster Discussion #5 - OR - The Everlasting GobStromer

[RABBIT]

Friedman was on Sportsnet again and mentioned Arizona (again) in connection with Jake Gardiner. Also mentioned Toronto, Montreal, Buffalo, Carolina, Winnipeg.

My own speculation but I wonder if a guy like Phil Housley can be a pretty interesting carrot to somebody like Gardiner. Housley may be able to help take his game to the next level. Both offensive defensemen. Both Minnesota guys.

Any clip?

 

[rt]

Say Gardiner wants to be here, and is willing to take a very reasonable deal. Say 18m for 4yrs. Goligoski has only a 8 team NTC and said on Spitten Chiclets that Montreal is his favorite road city. Montreal still could use a LHD like Goligoski. Friedman mentioned Montreal as in it for Gardiner. Could see a fit.

Could we do Goligoski with 15% retained for Charles Hudon? Then flip Hudon, along with Hossa to Ottawa for a 7th round pick? Could see Ottawa being interested in both Hossa’s dead cap and a reasonably decent project in Hudon.

We’d basically break even on 850k retention for Goligoski the next two seasons, and 4.5m for Gardiner. And we’d ditch Hossa in the process.

Gardiner is half a decade younger than Goligoski and apart from that is really a fairly similar player, overall.

 

[Mosby]

Any clip?

The top video here

NHL - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Mosby]

I don’t think Gardiner gets a big deal this late in the summer. I think I read somewhere else that no one has offered him more than 2 years to date.

 

[Foggy1097]

The top video here

NHL - Sportsnet.ca

First thought: Friedman looks like he just walked out of a soup kitchen. Second thought: ARI was the first team he mentioned...not sure if there’s any significance to that, but that was the first team and second time he’s mentioned it. Chayks needs to get this done somehow.

 

[Grimes]

Say Gardiner wants to be here, and is willing to take a very reasonable deal. Say 18m for 4yrs. Goligoski has only a 8 team NTC and said on Spitten Chiclets that Montreal is his favorite road city. Montreal still could use a LHD like Goligoski. Friedman mentioned Montreal as in it for Gardiner. Could see a fit.

Could we do Goligoski with 15% retained for Charles Hudon? Then flip Hudon, along with Hossa to Ottawa for a 7th round pick? Could see Ottawa being interested in both Hossa’s dead cap and a reasonably decent project in Hudon.

We’d basically break even on 850k retention for Goligoski the next two seasons, and 4.5m for Gardiner. And we’d ditch Hossa in the process.

Gardiner is half a decade younger than Goligoski and apart from that is really a fairly similar player, overall.

Gotta disagree with this. Goligoski is a very unique player. He is seen as an offensive defenseman, but he is more of a puck moving two-way defenseman. His assist totals are always sneaky high but it's not because he makes incredible outlet passes or QB's a PP. It's that he can get the puck out of his zone, make a nice tap to someone who is about to break the line and then they do their thing. He makes these plays often because he can collect pucks in his zone through positioning and his active stick and can quickly transition to moving the puck down the opposite side of the ice. I think Gradiner is a poor mans Yandle, can take the puck from one end of the ice to the other, has great hands, has top offensive instincts. Goligoski is this weird hybrid of Zbynek Michalek on his end (shot blocking, active stick, decent positioning) and Vatanen on the offensive end. He is an ideal version of "jack of trades, master of none". Yes he has his really boneheaded moments, but they aren't Yandle bad. Yes he isn't aggressive on the boards, but he doesn't need to be because he can gather he puck often before it hits the boards. and has lapses on both ends of the ice. But overall he is consistent

 

[Jakey53]

Say Gardiner wants to be here, and is willing to take a very reasonable deal. Say 18m for 4yrs. Goligoski has only a 8 team NTC and said on Spitten Chiclets that Montreal is his favorite road city. Montreal still could use a LHD like Goligoski. Friedman mentioned Montreal as in it for Gardiner. Could see a fit.

Could we do Goligoski with 15% retained for Charles Hudon? Then flip Hudon, along with Hossa to Ottawa for a 7th round pick? Could see Ottawa being interested in both Hossa’s dead cap and a reasonably decent project in Hudon.

We’d basically break even on 850k retention for Goligoski the next two seasons, and 4.5m for Gardiner. And we’d ditch Hossa in the process.

Gardiner is half a decade younger than Goligoski and apart from that is really a fairly similar player, overall.

Again, I don't see Gardiner signing for that. If he's similiar to Gogo, that would be the minimum Gardiner signs for, unless there are concerns about his back, where in that instance it could be a one year show me deal.

 

[cobra427]

Again, I don't see Gardiner signing for that. If he's similiar to Gogo, that would be the minimum Gardiner signs for, unless there are concerns about his back, where in that instance it could be a one year show me deal.

We should stay away from the Jake Gardiners at UFA time. This is where you make mistakes, giving middling players term of 4 years or more and $5-6 mill+. In UFA, get somebody cheap with less term that fills a role or pay more for elite talent. The big risk is the middle ground players like Gardiner.

 

[Jakey53]

We should stay away from the Jake Gardiners at UFA time. This is where you make mistakes, giving middling players term of 4 years or more and $5-6 mill+. In UFA, get somebody cheap with less term that fills a role or pay more for elite talent. The big risk is the middle ground players like Gardiner.

I agree, but looking at Gardiner's ice time, he is a top 4 D. Jamieh said Gardiner was leading TO in TOI until his injury. IF Chayka considers him a top 4 and you can get him on a good contract without giving up any assets, I would think you have to really consider it.

 

[rt]

Again, I don't see Gardiner signing for that. If he's similiar to Gogo, that would be the minimum Gardiner signs for, unless there are concerns about his back, where in that instance it could be a one year show me deal.

I would guess that an 18 million dollar deal would be by far and away the largest contract ever signed in September by a UFA. I'm not totally sure on that, but I'd bet on it without research.

 

[rt]

Gotta disagree with this. Goligoski is a very unique player. He is seen as an offensive defenseman, but he is more of a puck moving two-way defenseman. His assist totals are always sneaky high but it's not because he makes incredible outlet passes or QB's a PP. It's that he can get the puck out of his zone, make a nice tap to someone who is about to break the line and then they do their thing. He makes these plays often because he can collect pucks in his zone through positioning and his active stick and can quickly transition to moving the puck down the opposite side of the ice. I think Gradiner is a poor mans Yandle, can take the puck from one end of the ice to the other, has great hands, has top offensive instincts. Goligoski is this weird hybrid of Zbynek Michalek on his end (shot blocking, active stick, decent positioning) and Vatanen on the offensive end. He is an ideal version of "jack of trades, master of none". Yes he has his really boneheaded moments, but they aren't Yandle bad. Yes he isn't aggressive on the boards, but he doesn't need to be because he can gather he puck often before it hits the boards. and has lapses on both ends of the ice. But overall he is consistent

Good post. I'm willing to meet you in the middle on this analysis. However, I have to ask about the age issue. When will the floor fall out from under Goligoski?

 

[Jamieh]

I agree, but looking at Gardiner's ice time, he is a top 4 D. Jamieh said Gardiner was leading TO in TOI until his injury. IF Chayka considers him a top 4 and you can get him on a good contract without giving up any assets, I would think you have to really consider it.

Leafs fan used Gardiner incorrectly as the scapegoat for last few years. Then when he was out for a period last year the same fans were pining for his return. I worry about his injury but if you could sign him to play 2nd pair for under $5 million i would jump on that. Very good at getting out of his zone and getting into opponants zone.

 

[Mosby]

Gardiner has no leverage for a big contract at this point. It's almost training camp and he doesn't have a job.

 

[Grimes]

Good post. I'm willing to meet you in the middle on this analysis. However, I have to ask about the age issue. When will the floor fall out from under Goligoski?

Yeah that's an issue. Goligoski also doesn't turn into the player I described until November/December. He could evolve his game and become a player like Toby Ennstrom as he gets older though. Seems like we are seeing a bit of that already.

 

[Jamieh]

Yeah that's an issue. Goligoski also doesn't turn into the player I described until November/December. He could evolve his game and become a player like Toby Ennstrom as he gets older though. Seems like we are seeing a bit of that already.

Wouldn't that mean Goligoski would be out of the NHL then as he is less than a year younger than Enstrom? And Enstrom's last couple years in Winnipeg weren't good.

 

[cobra427]

I agree, but looking at Gardiner's ice time, he is a top 4 D. Jamieh said Gardiner was leading TO in TOI until his injury. IF Chayka considers him a top 4 and you can get him on a good contract without giving up any assets, I would think you have to really consider it.

NHL GM's don't think Gardiner is a top pairing D, thats obvious because he would be signed by now. I think most view him as a 4D. I think Gardiner wants 2/3D UFA money and term, but can find no takers.

OEL/Hjam are both more important then Gardiner. Chayka made a bet on Chychrun that he is at least a 4D. We would have OEL and hopefully Chychrun ahead of Gardiner on the left side. I am not sure he is a lot better then Goose, but I do think he is better. Look at what we paid Goose as a UFA a few years ago, Gardiner will want better money. I know he is not signed and was injured part of last year, so maybe he makes less or gets less term.

To me, if we have to pay market value, I wouldn't do it. If he were willing to sign a shorter deal for less money, many teams would be standing in line in front of us like TML. I just don't see him filling a major hole or major need for us.

 

[zerekstar]

There are just as many experts who say he is a third pairing guy as those who say he is top 4. In my mind if he isn't a clear improvement in the top 4, I don't really see the point unless we have a trade in place that will open up a spot. If he was a RD then yea but I don't get why this would help us.

 

[zerekstar]

I guess he's Chicago's problem now

 

[Foggy1097]

I guess he's Chicago's problem now

Huh?

 

[Jamieh]

There are just as many experts who say he is a third pairing guy as those who say he is top 4. In my mind if he isn't a clear improvement in the top 4, I don't really see the point unless we have a trade in place that will open up a spot. If he was a RD then yea but I don't get why this would help us.

If Gardiner is on your 3rd pairing you have the best D Corp in the League, full stop. He has played over 20 minutes a night every year he has been in the League while averaging around 40 points and a positive plus/minus the last several. Analytics puts him as an average 1st pairing and good 2nd pairing.

 

[Jakey53]

NHL GM's don't think Gardiner is a top pairing D, thats obvious because he would be signed by now. I think most view him as a 4D. I think Gardiner wants 2/3D UFA money and term, but can find no takers.

OEL/Hjam are both more important then Gardiner. Chayka made a bet on Chychrun that he is at least a 4D. We would have OEL and hopefully Chychrun ahead of Gardiner on the left side. I am not sure he is a lot better then Goose, but I do think he is better. Look at what we paid Goose as a UFA a few years ago, Gardiner will want better money. I know he is not signed and was injured part of last year, so maybe he makes less or gets less term.

To me, if we have to pay market value, I wouldn't do it. If he were willing to sign a shorter deal for less money, many teams would be standing in line in front of us like TML. I just don't see him filling a major hole or major need for us.

I didn't say top pairing. He plays 20 + TOI a game, about the same as Gogo who is a top 4, like I said. I expect big things from Chick this year so I don't see us interested in Gardiner unless we have a deal for Gogo or Demers.

 

[zerekstar]

Huh?

Ha my mistake. I read a headline wrong.

 

[zerekstar]

If Gardiner is on your 3rd pairing you have the best D Corp in the League, full stop. He has played over 20 minutes a night every year he has been in the League while averaging around 40 points and a positive plus/minus the last several. Analytics puts him as an average 1st pairing and good 2nd pairing.

Maybe that says more about how poor the rest of your defense core is. But I'm not really arguing about what caliber player he is. I just don't see the need. I would not want to move Chyc down a line to accommodate Gardiner.

 

[Jakey53]

Maybe that says more about how poor the rest of your defense core is. But I'm not really arguing about what caliber player he is. I just don't see the need. I would not want to move Chyc down a line to accommodate Gardiner.

Maybe move Gogo to the RD, or trade him or Demers? Gardiner is a 0.44 PPG Dman, so if he is on your third pairing you have a damn good defense

 

[Mosby]

Good post. I'm willing to meet you in the middle on this analysis. However, I have to ask about the age issue. When will the floor fall out from under Goligoski?

I don't really see Goligoski declining. He's a safe bet for 35 points year in and year out. The only reason I want to move him next summer is hopefully someone like Capobianco can cover his job at 20% of the cost and we can use the savings to plug holes elsewhere.