Speculation: 2019 Off Season Roster Discussion #3

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Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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No, I should have said, move Capobianco to the AHL. We currently have about $3.6 M in space. Sending Capobianco to the AHL and putting Hossa on LTIR gets us to just about $9 M in space before any RFA or UFA signings.
We have 2.8 in cap space. Add in about 2 mill. for Crouse and we are done. If you want to take away Capo that is .745, but you add in Hayton at .894 and the pot is full. So we basically have Hossa's contract in cap space, but if we add anyone Hossa's cap still counts toward the cap, and then we are not allow to do any more transaction until we get below the cap. I think that's how it works.:) Where is mouser when you need him..
 

Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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I know Kessel can drive guys nuts but I still can't see why the Pens move that Cap hit and 80 points for a return of spare parts?? I just don't see why they do It? They are in win now mode.
 

Grimes

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I know Kessel can drive guys nuts but I still can't see why the Pens move that Cap hit and 80 points for a return of spare parts?? I just don't see why they do It? They are in win now mode.

Yeah it's hard to swallow, but maybe they don't think they can win with him when they face heavier teams in the playoffs again. Move Kessel with little cap coming back also allows you to get a Lee or Dzingle (I remember reading Crosby likes playing with certain players who are in the Neal/Hornquvist mold). Both of those guys are probably 60-70 point players as a Penguin. Now you got assets for moving out a headache and it only cost you 10-15 points.

My guess is all the offers before the draft were very low because of how tight the situation seemed. Now that the draft has come and gone I think two things are happening. 1. Rutherford feels like he needs to move Kessel in order to sign a FA. 2. Teams that Kessel will allow a trade with know this and are starting to throw darts at Rutherford again. JR showed he is willing to be patient so he may be able to extract more value but what does he do is Lee says he will sign for 7m on Monday?
 
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Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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I get they can change course but Lee and Dzingel would probably cost as much as Kessel and still give nowhere near the production. Lee has a career high of 62 points and rode shotgun with Tavares, Dzingel has not even done that well yet.
 

Foggy1097

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
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Arizona
So is this actually enough:

To PIT
Goligoski
Fischer
‘20 1st (conditional)**

To ARI
Kessel
Gudbranson

**becomes 2nd if AZ fails to make playoffs.

Players with cap seem extremely cheap right now. I figured Goligoski was worth a 2nd. After the Söderberg and Haula deals, I’m think he’s worth more like a 3rd or 4th. I still think Fischer is worth at least a 2nd. So that deal is like a mid round first, a mid round second and a mid round third for Kessel, and I’d put Gudbranson’s trade value at about absolute zero. Maybe slightly negative. Probably a little negative.

If this is actually enough, which based off some other recent trades I believe it would be, then we would be looking at:

Keller-Dvorak-Kessel
Galchenyuk-Söderberg-Schmaltz
Crouse-Stepan-Hinostroza
Grabner-Richardson-Garland

Kinda looks like a real team...
 

BUX7PHX

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Jul 7, 2011
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We have 2.8 in cap space. Add in about 2 mill. for Crouse and we are done. If you want to take away Capo that is .745, but you add in Hayton at .894 and the pot is full. So we basically have Hossa's contract in cap space, but if we add anyone Hossa's cap still counts toward the cap, and then we are not allow to do any more transaction until we get below the cap. I think that's how it works.:) Where is mouser when you need him..

I thought that by placing Hossa on LTIR, it also reduces the effective cap hit. If it is only actual dollars that are reduced, then yes, we are done adding pieces. I was dropping Capo but did not include Hayton, which is probably not smart of me. That was how I got the initial $3.6 M with what I thought was Hossa's cap hit significantly reduced. Apologies if the cap is not affected by LTIR placement.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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I thought that by placing Hossa on LTIR, it also reduces the effective cap hit. If it is only actual dollars that are reduced, then yes, we are done adding pieces. I was dropping Capo but did not include Hayton, which is probably not smart of me. That was how I got the initial $3.6 M with what I thought was Hossa's cap hit significantly reduced. Apologies if the cap is not affected by LTIR placement.
It's confusing to me. I read it again and I think we can use Hossa's LTIR for a reduction, so we have approx. 5.2 mill. cap space. You can sure tell lawyers made up these agreements as they are so confusing. No wonder teams need a capologist or whatever they are called.
 
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Kyle003p

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Dec 17, 2007
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Does Kessels high secondary assist total last year worry anyone? I'd be afraid we pay 80pt winger price in trade for a guy who comes in and only puts up 50-55.

Still would lead this team in points though I guess
 
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Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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It's confusing to me. I read it again and I think we can use Hossa's LTIR for a reduction, so we have approx. 5.2 mill. cap space. You can sure tell lawyers made up these agreements as they are so confusing. No wonder teams need a capologist or whatever they are called.
LTIR raises your upper limit but it doesn't just get added. For simplicity if you have 80 million in Cap plus LTIR of 5 million, your new upper limit is 85 million and not 86.5 as most would assume. It also has a calculation for bonus contracts. It's a complicated formula that I can't do justice to but let's just say it isn't just added to cap limit.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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Does Kessels high secondary assist total last year worry anyone? I'd be afraid we pay 80pt winger price in trade for a guy who comes in and only puts up 50-55.

Still would lead this team in points though I guess
That would be his worst season since 07/08 season. Can pretty much count on 60 something I think.
 

Mangosteen

Yotes Ashtray of the NHL
Apr 9, 2018
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Kessel would be a huge mistake. To make the money work we would be forced to make other trades at a huge disadvantage to clear cap space. I hope we run with the team we have, frick without injuries it is a new team. Lets hope they give it a chance. Kessel wouldn't even be a fan favorite. Leafs and Pen fans both wanted him traded I believe.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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Kessel would be a huge mistake. To make the money work we would be forced to make other trades at a huge disadvantage to clear cap space. I hope we run with the team we have, frick without injuries it is a new team. Lets hope they give it a chance. Kessel wouldn't even be a fan favorite. Leafs and Pen fans both wanted him traded I believe.
Goligoski, Fischer/Merkley, and picks/prospects for Kessel+Gudbranson should fit fine.
 
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Dr VinnyBoombatz

formerly ctwin22
Mar 21, 2008
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Kessel is fast, performs in the playoffs, and he'd be a good fit. I just don't see us pulling that trade off unfortunately, because I don't think that Chayka will part with all the stuff Pittsburgh would want back.
 
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Mosby

<3 Uncle Gary
Feb 16, 2012
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Even after dumping Maatta, the Pens have no cap space. They have 3 mil free right now but they need to sign 3 depth forwards to fill out their lineup. No money left after that. Moving Kessel gives them quite a bit. Maybe if they have their eye on someone in free agency they will look to deal Kessel before July 1.
 

Grimes

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Even after dumping Maatta, the Pens have no cap space. They have 3 mil free right now but they need to sign 3 depth forwards to fill out their lineup. No money left after that. Moving Kessel gives them quite a bit. Maybe if they have their eye on someone in free agency they will look to deal Kessel before July 1.

Rumors they are in on Lee. Need to move Kessel to sign Lee

Edit: I can't read, dimiss this.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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Still would lead this team in points though I guess

I think if we bring him in he's a 65 point guy here and his shooting% would go down. All assists would go down not just secondaries. Nobody on this team can bury the biscuit, we don't have the worst high danger shooting percentage 3 years running for nothing.

Though I will say Galchenyuk didn't really lose much coming in production wise, so perhaps Phil wouldn't either. Maybe those days are over. It's the players who are homegrown that seem to suffer these days :biglaugh:
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
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Seriously? A down year by Kessel is better than anything we saw by a Coyote last year. Methinks some of us are critical just to be critical.
 
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SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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Seriously? A down year by Kessel is better than anything we saw by a Coyote last year. Methinks some of us are critical just to be critical.

I'm being critical of the dumpy scoring environment here the Coyotes provide not Kessel. Most likely any decline in numbers by him would be linemate effects and PP system.
 
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