2019 Off-Season Evaluation

Hockey4Life91

Registered User
Mar 13, 2018
1,142
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We are in great hands. JBB performed exceptionally well. I am glad SY pre-empted JBB's departure to leave us in steady hands. The only decision that I believe warrants a small amount of criticism is signing Vasy to 9.5M AAV. But I will underscore my point: it only deserves a small amount of criticism. Locking down the the reigning Vezina winner long-term is not the worst thing in the world. Vasy is an absolutely incredible goalie. I hope he is able to consistently elevate himself in the playoffs one of these years. That is the only thing he has not yet done.

Otherwise, the Point negotiation was masterful. Off-loading Miller and Cally was fantastic. Not re-signing Stralman (at least in the ballpark Florida was willing to) was the right move. The Shattenkirk and Maroon signings were top-notch (no risk, high reward). And to cap it all off, we have some serious flexibility to make a move in February. We absolutely need to take advantage and sign a power forward who can score dirty goals in the playoffs.

I hope to see one of Palat, Johnson or Killorn moved the next summer.
 
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JoVel

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Jan 23, 2017
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id be very happy with his offseason except

there is no justification for that disgusting vasilevskiy contract
I don't like it but you can't sign everyone to a perfect deal. I'd rather give Vasy a league maximum contract than go back to pre-Bishop goaltending.
 
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T REX

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Feb 28, 2013
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I think he's done well. Let's see how the team responds this year. Everything will come down to how we play in the playoffs.
 
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God King Fudge

Championship Swag
Oct 13, 2017
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I really don't like how he handled the Domingue situation, but I'm pleased with everything else.

Guys like Maroon, Witko and Shattenkirk on very low risk deals, all who add something different to the roster that was needed coming into the season. He's done a pretty damn good job, all things considered.
 

Max McBolt

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
186
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When did JT Miller become a gritty, physical player?

I understand liking him, but he never really established a role for himself here. That, combined with his NTC not yet kicked in, made him the obvious choice to leave.

I will concede that Miller was never as physical in the regular season as he was in the playoffs with us.
It is also true that he did not managed to fully established himself with us last season as shown by Cooper’s usage of him.

What I am concerned about is winning in the playoffs.
And in the last 2 playoffs rounds that the Bolts won, JT made a physical impact with huge hits, giving momentum or adding to the one we had.




I feel it is important to point out that Miller was playing with Stamkos and Kucherov when he made those 2 hits.

To me it made this line deadly for opponents because it was a top line that could beat you skill wise in a way that you could not match, and it could hurt you with hard clean hits like JT delivered in a way that you could not match.
(Well Ovechkin/Wilson can certainly match you but that’s another story)

I also think that Miller’s mindset was different when playing with 91-86 than it was when playing on the third line.
When playing with 91-86, it was fairly easy to see what his role was :
Finish plays and make space on the ice for the superstars to work their magic. And finish plays he certainly did.

On the third line however, he often was the most talented player on the ice with a canon of a shot.
He probably felt more pressure to focus on scoring instead of physicality or making space for teammates, to make his way up the line-up again.

For some players, usage and confidence makes a big difference on how they play.
For a player like Miller who could be a playmaker, a scorer, or a hard hitter, usage can dictate more or less what attributes are going to be at the forefront depending on what is needed on a line.
And for some others like Gourde or Point, it does not change their styles of play whomever they play with.

Usage however changes a lot production wise for every players, regardless of them changing their style of play or not.
Gourde for example.
Last year he started the season with Brayden Point. Great chemistry for him. 20 points in 20 games.
For the rest of the season, he barely played with Point and did not produce nearly as well.
Brought his compete, but no production.
Last 11 games of the season, he was reunited with Brayden Point.
11 points in 11 games.
Gourde’s point production depends on whom he plays with.
(48 pts in 80 games last year)
He could make anywhere from 45 to 80 points depending on his usage.

I think what I really question in all this is Cooper’s usage of him.
Why was Miller never given a chance to play with 91-86 again, or to play on the top 2 lines in the playoffs where he showed he could be very successful ?
Every Top 9 player ends up playing with almost everybody on the Lightning at different times over the course of the season.
Lines change and multiple combinations are tried.

Gourde got the best line for him, then he lost it, and then got it back again.
JT never got his shot again, more importantly in the playoffs, where he can be a difference maker.
Palat got his shot to play on the top 2 lines in the playoffs after a season where he probably played his worst hockey in a long time, why could Miller not get a shot ?

It became clear to me, and probably to Miller too, that they were gonna prioritize every winger in the top 9 before him.

Obviously it is hard to judge how much is on the coaching staff and how much is on the player.
There has to be a % of responsibility attributed to the player for how it all played out.
But in this case I do question the way Cooper handled Miller.
It is the coach’s responsibility to get the best out of his players and put them in positions to succeed and to play to their potential.

JT Miller had a skillset that no one else on this team had, and we failed to use it to it’s full potential.



(Edit : Typos)
 
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Max McBolt

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Dec 18, 2018
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I would go so far as to wonder if JBB was doing all of the work in the background while SY was the pretty face with the title of GM in the last year or two. Now, having seen JBB do his work and get full credit for it, in hindsight I can see his fingerprints all over previous moves that we gave SY credit for making. Not saying it's true but, if not, he's seemed to have learned an awful lot from Stevie Y.

Julien BriseBois always had that “prodigal son” aura since he started to work for the Montreal Canadiens.

He had an impact and was named to key positions in the Original 6 franchise that very few men his age managed to do anywhere in hockey at the time.

After participating in the reform of the constitution and by-laws of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, he joined the Montreal Canadien as Director of Legal Affairs. (24 years old)

In 2003, he became Director of Hockey Operations. (26 years old)

In 2006, Vice President of Hockey Operation and GM of the Hamilton Bulldogs. (29 years old)

Won the Calder Cup in 2007 with Montreal’s AHL affiliate, the first season he managed them. (30 years old)

No wonder Steve Yzerman went and stole him right under the Habs nose.
This guy was young, talented, and killing every management position given to him.

Also no wonder the Bolts went on to make a killing drafting in the QJMHL, while Montreal watch us take the best talents from their backyard.
Ha !
 

LTIR Trickery

Plz stop pucks
Jun 27, 2007
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Julien BriseBois always had that “prodigal son” aura since he started to work for the Montreal Canadiens.

He had an impact and was named to key positions in the Original 6 franchise that very few men his age managed to do anywhere in hockey at the time.

After participating in the reform of the constitution and by-laws of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, he joined the Montreal Canadien as Director of Legal Affairs. (24 years old)

In 2003, he became Director of Hockey Operations. (26 years old)

In 2006, Vice President of Hockey Operation and GM of the Hamilton Bulldogs. (29 years old)

Won the Calder Cup in 2007 with Montreal’s AHL affiliate, the first season he managed them. (30 years old)

No wonder Steve Yzerman went and stole him right under the Habs nose.
This guy was young, talented, and killing every management position given to him.

Also no wonder the Bolts went on to make a killing drafting in the QJMHL, while Montreal watch us take the best talents from their backyard.
Ha !
To make it just a bit more hilarious, they actually gave him an extended look for the GM job recently... and chose Marc Bergevin.
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,353
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Miller gets undeservedly dumped on around here for whatever reason.

I also liked Miller and also thought he should have had more top 6 time than we gave him. I thought he was better than his NYR fans thought of him for sure. I think the thing about him was the NTC kicking in and also the fact that Vancouver was willing to give an unprotected first in 2021 if it gets to that. I would do that deal again and again. Especially if that first ends up being a good player for us or by golly if we end up with a top 5 pick.
 

waterboy65

Registered User
Jul 7, 2017
208
107
Getting a #1 pick for Miller probably sealed the deal for his trade. As for his usage, I do agree that it was not the best under Cooper. But that said, while Miller could deliver some good hits on that top line was also not an efficient puck board battler and was not responsible enough defensively to be paired with Stammer and Kuch! The idea of Palat on the top line sounded good but after the second game, Cooper should have made changes!
 
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God King Fudge

Championship Swag
Oct 13, 2017
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I also liked Miller and also thought he should have had more top 6 time than we gave him. I thought he was better than his NYR fans thought of him for sure. I think the thing about him was the NTC kicking in and also the fact that Vancouver was willing to give an unprotected first in 2021 if it gets to that. I would do that deal again and again. Especially if that first ends up being a good player for us or by golly if we end up with a top 5 pick.
Yeah I've got no issue with him being moved, although I still would have preferred a guy like Killorn or Gourde go. JBB did reallllllly well on the return. I just find it weird the way some of the folks talk about him on these boards. He was fine considering his position in the lineup.
 
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DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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I love me some Bishop but the dude is made of glass. I'd take a healthy Bishop over Vasy in a playoff series any day, but he just can't stay healthy.

Pretty much this. And he's 32. As of now, I still think Bishop has an edge in a playoff series. But you can't trust him to play 4 playoff series in a row. So you might have to take those cap savings and invest them in a really good back-up anyway.
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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I will concede that Miller was never as physical in the regular season as he was in the playoffs with us.
It is also true that he did not managed to fully established himself with us last season as shown by Cooper’s usage of him.

What I am concerned about is winning in the playoffs.
And in the last 2 playoffs rounds that the Bolts won, JT made a physical impact with huge hits, giving momentum or adding to the one we had.




I feel it is important to point out that Miller was playing with Stamkos and Kucherov when he made those 2 hits.

To me it made this line deadly for opponents because it was a top line that could beat you skill wise in a way that you could not match, and it could hurt you with hard clean hits like JT delivered in a way that you could not match.
(Well Ovechkin/Wilson can certainly match you but that’s another story)

I also think that Miller’s mindset was different when playing with 91-86 than it was when playing on the third line.
When playing with 91-86, it was fairly easy to see what his role was :
Finish plays and make space on the ice for the superstars to work their magic. And finish plays he certainly did.

On the third line however, he often was the most talented player on the ice with a canon of a shot.
He probably felt more pressure to focus on scoring instead of physicality or making space for teammates, to make his way up the line-up again.

For some players, usage and confidence makes a big difference on how they play.
For a player like Miller who could be a playmaker, a scorer, or a hard hitter, usage can dictate more or less what attributes are going to be at the forefront depending on what is needed on a line.
And for some others like Gourde or Point, it does not change their styles of play whomever they play with.

Usage however changes a lot production wise for every players, regardless of them changing their style of play or not.
Gourde for example.
Last year he started the season with Brayden Point. Great chemistry for him. 20 points in 20 games.
For the rest of the season, he barely played with Point and did not produce nearly as well.
Brought his compete, but no production.
Last 11 games of the season, he was reunited with Brayden Point.
11 points in 11 games.
Gourde’s point production depends on whom he plays with.
(48 pts in 80 games last year)
He could make anywhere from 45 to 80 points depending on his usage.

I think what I really question in all this is Cooper’s usage of him.
Why was Miller never given a chance to play with 91-86 again, or to play on the top 2 lines in the playoffs where he showed he could be very successful ?
Every Top 9 player ends up playing with almost everybody on the Lightning at different times over the course of the season.
Lines change and multiple combinations are tried.

Gourde got the best line for him, then he lost it, and then got it back again.
JT never got his shot again, more importantly in the playoffs, where he can be a difference maker.
Palat got his shot to play on the top 2 lines in the playoffs after a season where he probably played his worst hockey in a long time, why could Miller not get a shot ?

It became clear to me, and probably to Miller too, that they were gonna prioritize every winger in the top 9 before him.

Obviously it is hard to judge how much is on the coaching staff and how much is on the player.
There has to be a % of responsibility attributed to the player for how it all played out.
But in this case I do question the way Cooper handled Miller.
It is the coach’s responsibility to get the best out of his players and put them in positions to succeed and to play to their potential.

JT Miller had a skillset that no one else on this team had, and we failed to use it to it’s full potential.



(Edit : Typos)


Yeah, but... those are pretty much the only hits he threw in the playoffs. I'm not trying to hate on the guy. Just, in my opinion, he was the odd man out. He had some big moments of physicality, but he never really made it the norm.

Also: He has 3 playoff goals, LIFETIME. 61 games.

I haven't looked into the numbers, but how many of those points at the first of the year were 5v5? Because Miller scored a big chunk of his points this year on the PP.
 

Max McBolt

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
186
240
I haven't looked into the numbers, but how many of those points at the first of the year were 5v5? Because Miller scored a big chunk of his points this year on the PP.

2017-18

ATOI 18:11

GP 19 / G 10 / A 8 / PTS 18
(EVG 5 / PPG 5 / EVA 7 / PPA 1)

6 PP PTS out of 18 PTS

-----------------------------------------------

2018-19

ATOI 14:40

GP 75 / G 13 / A 34 / PTS 47
(EVG 9 / PPG 4 / EVA 18 / PPA 16)

20 PP PTS out of 47 PTS
 
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Boltswin

Registered User
Apr 29, 2011
1,690
243
Tampa
Pretty much this. And he's 32. As of now, I still think Bishop has an edge in a playoff series. But you can't trust him to play 4 playoff series in a row. So you might have to take those cap savings and invest them in a really good back-up anyway.

This is the big one. It’s unfortunate. With a healthy Bish we probably have at least 1 more cup. He just gets injured too often (while it’s a pipe dream I suppose, would we not have been better with Vasy AND Bish?).

I think Vasy is amazing. He’s better than I gave him credit for in the beginning. He is a great athlete. I am still not convinced he is the guy though. I think his puck handling, especially in comparison to Bish, is lacking *(but that’s not the sole reason). That would really help is out (at least it did in the past).

If he wins us a cup then I will cut some slack regarding the new contract. Until then it just doesn’t sit right with me.

*edit
 

Coopers Gum

Extend Andrej Sustr
Mar 6, 2012
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This is the big one. It’s unfortunate. With a healthy Bish we probably have at least 1 more cup. He just gets injured too often (while it’s a pipe dream I suppose, would we not have been better with Vasy AND Bish?).

I think Vasy is amazing. He’s better than I gave him credit for in the beginning. He is a great athlete. I am still not convinced he is the guy though. I think his puck handling, especially in comparison to Bish, is lacking *(but that’s not the sole reason). That would really help is out (at least it did in the past).

If he wins us a cup then I will cut some slack regarding the new contract. Until then it just doesn’t sit right with me.

*edit

The dude just won the Vezina. Hes probably the most athletic goalie I've ever watched, personall . The way he stretches and is always in control is unreal.

And literally every goalie in the league has worse puck handling than Bishop. Bishop was probably the most fun goalie I've ever seen play.

But to discount the most recent Vezina winner because he's a worse puck handler than the best puck handler in the league is silly. But I will admit, it is Vasy's biggest weakness.
 
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Boltswin

Registered User
Apr 29, 2011
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The dude just won the Vezina. Hes probably the most athletic goalie I've ever watched, personall . The way he stretches and is always in control is unreal.

And literally every goalie in the league has worse puck handling than Bishop. Bishop was probably the most fun goalie I've ever seen play.

But to discount the most recent Vezina winner because he's a worse puck handler than the best puck handler in the league is silly. But I will admit, it is Vasy's biggest weakness.

You replied with what I edited so I assume you read it. I think his problem is mental. Maybe he’ll grow out of that. He has amazing reflexes. His rebound control has improved. Thanks for calling me silly because one knock I have against him is legitimate as said by you
 

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