Here is a new wrinkle I have not seen yet.
He explicitly states it's a belief, and at no point ever mentions that he's heard any of this from a source, which he invariably does and has every incentive to do when he has one. I know you understand the conventions of language that suggest you're incorrect here and I've seen you use them against similar claims when they happen to contradict your views.
I would do Virtanen + 10th in a heartbeat for #4, but it wouldn't come close to what Colorado would want for it. I also wouldn't want to overpay for #4 either. I like Byram a lot and would trade up to get him if the price was right, but I don't think it will be right. A team moving back 6 spots in the top 10 would take something fairly significant. Not an A prospect, but a B prospect + a 2nd at least, and the Canucks should not be trading prospects or picks. Virtanen would be lucky to be a productive 3rd liner going forward. He's more likely a good 4th liner.
He's a productive 3rd liner right now by any measure. You're correct that he and the 10th wouldn't return the 4th, though.
You're creating a strawman. I never claimed he fabricated anything.
I wouldn't say 'by any measure'. I don't think he's a good 3rd liner on a playoff team or cup contender. He's a 3rd liner on our team, sure. Maybe in terms of just point production you could say he produces at a third line rate, but I don't think overall, you can call him an everyday 3rd liner yet. There are teams, like the Islanders, that have guys like Clutterbuck and Cizikas on the 4th line that score around or above Virtanen's career high, and you could argue they bring much more overall to the game than Virtanen does. He has a ways to go before he can be classified as a 'productive 3rd liner' yet. I think it's pretty generous to call him that at this very moment. I think he could surely be a useful 3rd line player, but he has to figure things out.
A "good," i.e. above average, third liner on a good team isn't a measure -- it's a specific cohort of players that on average are better than players in the category -- 3rd liner -- you're excluding Virtanen from. 15 goals, 13 at even strength, with excellent zone entry skills is a 3rd liner on most teams, a 4th liner on a few.
Again, you're just talking in terms of production. I think he produced like a decent 3rd liner last season, but I don't think overall, his play is at a 3rd line level yet. I think there were long stretches last season where he was actually a fairly useless player. A 3rd liner needs to be both defensively responsible and provide energy. Virtanen does that sometimes, but not consistently enough to be called a 3rd liner yet. He's a 4th/3rd line tweener atm, and there is no guarantee he figures it out, which is why I say he will likely top out as a 'good 4th liner'. Aka, an above average 4th liner. Even then, he has to more consistently be an energy guy. He has to be more physical and engaged; when he is, he can be a very effective tool to have on your team. When he's fluttering about and invisible, he's useless. He needs to be a consistent effective player, even when he's not scoring.
