GDT: 2019 IIHF World Championship IV - Knockout round (OP Warning)

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Ripshot 43

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He strikes me as a Pietila upgrade. I hope you are right about him. I don't have high hopes personally, though.

He jumped out to me every shift he played in the games that I watched. I saw a player that I wouldnt be surprised to hear turned into a glue type player that other teams hate playing against and our fans and players see him as a guy they couldn’t see winning without.
 
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Hischier and Hughes

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So Im guessing the Kakko thread and fanboys will never discuss how Kaapo went his last five games pointless but is a total winner

Edit: which is funny because Kakko will get credit for making plays that lead to goals but if people cite Jack’s plays that were botched by guys like JvR and didnt result in goals - those dont count
 

Polar Bear

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So Im guessing the Kakko thread and fanboys will never discuss how Kaapo went his last five games pointless but is a total winner

Edit: which is funny because Kakko will get credit for making plays that lead to goals but if people cite Jack’s plays that were botched by guys like JvR and didnt result in goals - those dont count
Sigh, you need to stop box score judging, and that applies to Hughes, as well.

And yes, being a part of 3 gold medal teams (first time ever for a draftee to win all 3) and having a major impact in all of them makes you a winner. I get the Hughes hate has been extreme by some members, but that doesn't mean you should trash Kakko with the same stupid arguments applied to Hughes.
 
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Hischier and Hughes

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Sigh, you need to stop box score judging, and that applies to Hughes, as well.

And yes, being a part of 3 gold medal teams (first time ever for a draftee to win all 3) and having a major impact in all of them makes you a winner. I get the Hughes hate has been extreme by some members, but that doesn't mean you should trash Kakko with the same stupid arguments applied to Hughes.
Im not trashing him.

Im wondering where the backlash for not scoring in five straight is after the entire debacle was made around how he was lighting it up and Jack wasnt. Now he goes five straight pointless and yet hes hyped even further because of his play off the stat sheet? Where the hell was that for Jack?

Thats my point. And I was only referring to the trolls and super fans of Kakko who just hated on Hughes. The argument originally was points and then once those disappeared it becomes ‘hes a winner’ and ‘his play away from the stat sheet is why they won’

Simply pointing out the double standard
 

Polar Bear

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Im not trashing him.

Im wondering where the backlash for not scoring in five straight is after the entire debacle was made around how he was lighting it up and Jack wasnt. Now he goes five straight pointless and yet hes hyped even further because of his play off the stat sheet? Where the hell was that for Jack?

Thats my point. And I was only referring to the trolls and super fans of Kakko who just hated on Hughes. The argument originally was points and then once those disappeared it becomes ‘hes a winner’ and ‘his play away from the stat sheet is why they won’

Simply pointing out the double standard
I think the argument is stupid to begin with, but Kakko did have the 2nd most points for a U18 player in the WHC, so it's not like he was pointless.

But similar to Hughes who was very unlucky at times this tournament, Kakko made impacts that can't be measured by points, such as the insane amount of penalties he drew, including the one earlier which allowed Finland to tie the game.

Regardless, tournaments being valued over season play is just dumb in general on both sides.
 

sooni

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Hughes is really good player. Was amazing against Russia. Kakko is winner. How to hell there is even conversation of this. Hughes goes to NJ and Kakko to Rangers. I'm from Finland and I don't even cafe. It's your loss if your choice is wrong.
 

Nubmer6

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Im not trashing him.

Im wondering where the backlash for not scoring in five straight is after the entire debacle was made around how he was lighting it up and Jack wasnt. Now he goes five straight pointless and yet hes hyped even further because of his play off the stat sheet? Where the hell was that for Jack?

Thats my point. And I was only referring to the trolls and super fans of Kakko who just hated on Hughes. The argument originally was points and then once those disappeared it becomes ‘hes a winner’ and ‘his play away from the stat sheet is why they won’

Simply pointing out the double standard
I'm not sure if I qualify as a troll or super Kakko fan, but I definitely thought Kakko should be in the conversation after that start. If you look back at my first post on it though, I DID qualify it with "If he keeps this up" or something to that effect. The thing is, it wasn't even the scoring. Kakko looked dangerous in almost every game I saw him play. I don't know if it was just me rooting against him and getting nervous whenever he had the puck, or if he really was that dangerous.
 

Polar Bear

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I'm not sure if I qualify as a troll or super Kakko fan, but I definitely thought Kakko should be in the conversation after that start. If you look back at my first post on it though, I DID qualify it with "If he keeps this up" or something to that effect. The thing is, it wasn't even the scoring. Kakko looked dangerous in almost every game I saw him play. I don't know if it was just me rooting against him and getting nervous whenever he had the puck, or if he really was that dangerous.
Kakko always has the ability to make something special happen out of nothing. Hughes is a much stronger player in carrying the puck into the zone and leading a charge, but I think Kakko is more dangerous purely in puck possession against the boards and being able to create absolute havoc in the opponent's zone. Both are very special offensively, but through different means.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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I'm not sure if I qualify as a troll or super Kakko fan, but I definitely thought Kakko should be in the conversation after that start. If you look back at my first post on it though, I DID qualify it with "If he keeps this up" or something to that effect. The thing is, it wasn't even the scoring. Kakko looked dangerous in almost every game I saw him play. I don't know if it was just me rooting against him and getting nervous whenever he had the puck, or if he really was that dangerous.
I think he caught people off-guard and especially those who hadnt seen him at all prior. But the way I look at it is like this:

This tournament for both was vastly different. Jack was there to develop and learn from people he admires (especially his hockey hero Kane). get the chance to play against men and NHL talent and practixe with NHL players. Kaapo was there to show what hed worked on the last year and a half and how he was ready to begin tearing into NHL competition. He wanted to prove his worth for the 1st spot as well as be a main contributer for team Finland.

Imagine taking a guy whos worked out for a year and putting him in the gym with a guy who has lifted a few tims over a year. Ones form is better, they can lift more, they know where and what to lift, etc... Its silly to have expected them to produce as equals; and even if they did comments would still reign in like ‘Oh well Jack was getting bodied and wasnt nearly as effective away from the puck’.

And to your first sentence - I have no problem with people saying hes in the conversation (even if I think its obvious he isnt but thats just how I value skating over a lot of other skills). It was the arguments that cited points as reason over Hughes - then his points dissipate - then the points dont even matter anymore and its the rest of his play. Funny how that works
 

Polar Bear

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I think he caught people off-guard and especially those who hadnt seen him at all prior. But the way I look at it is like this:

This tournament for both was vastly different. Jack was there to develop and learn from people he admires (especially his hockey hero Kane). get the chance to play against men and NHL talent and practixe with NHL players. Kaapo was there to show what hed worked on the last year and a half and how he was ready to begin tearing into NHL competition. He wanted to prove his worth for the 1st spot as well as be a main contributer for team Finland.

Imagine taking a guy whos worked out for a year and putting him in the gym with a guy who has lifted a few tims over a year. Ones form is better, they can lift more, they know where and what to lift, etc... Its silly to have expected them to produce as equals; and even if they did comments would still reign in like ‘Oh well Jack was getting bodied and wasnt nearly as effective away from the puck’.

And to your first sentence - I have no problem with people saying hes in the conversation (even if I think its obvious he isnt but thats just how I value skating over a lot of other skills). It was the arguments that cited points as reason over Hughes - then his points dissipate - then the points dont even matter anymore and its the rest of his play. Funny how that works
That's fair, though I disagree with you on the skating part. I mean, it certainly helps to be a great skater to be an offensive force, but many offensive players weren't great skaters entering the draft and I wouldn't label them as great skaters either currently. That's just a personal disagreement in how we judge players though.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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That's fair, though I disagree with you on the skating part. I mean, it certainly helps to be a great skater to be an offensive force, but many offensive players weren't great skaters entering the draft and I wouldn't label them as great skaters either currently. That's just a personal disagreement in how we judge players though.
Yeah thats just more the way I see the game going. I think Jack will be NJs best skater from day one and will enter the NHLs top 10 skaters within a reasonably short time. With the pace of the game rising as well as the overall style NJ has built - he fits like a glove (dont tell OJ). His edgework may only be matched by Crosby, McDavid, and Barzal from day one although I could be missing a few guys.
 

NJDFan4Life

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I will be so happy when June rolls around because then we can finally select one of these two primeir talents then start to hate the other
 

Jack Be Quick

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once both touch NHL ice itll change dramatically

although it could be bad for this board and trolls on the main board if Kakko has a better rookie year. im just thankful we wont have to have the some Finnish fans who troll on our board wondering why Kakko isnt with this guy or on top PP, etc etc.. Its already started on the Rangers board with some questioning Zibanejads ability to center Kakko lmfao
A better rookie year? We're probably in for at least 2 years of this given that Kakko will slot right in to the rags top line and Hughes will be 'behind' Nico, who just so happens to rock out with his schwanz out with our Hart trophy winning left winger.

Tough days ahead guys, let me tell you.
 

Hischier and Hughes

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A better rookie year? We're probably in for at least 2 years of this given that Kakko will slot right in to the rags top line and Hughes will be 'behind' Nico, who just so happens to rock out with his schwanz out with our Hart trophy winning left winger.

Tough days ahead guys, let me tell you.
I mean is Hall really that much better than Panarin? :sarcasm:
 

Jack Be Quick

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That's fair, though I disagree with you on the skating part. I mean, it certainly helps to be a great skater to be an offensive force, but many offensive players weren't great skaters entering the draft and I wouldn't label them as great skaters either currently. That's just a personal disagreement in how we judge players though.
Surely there must be another board in which you can minimize Hughes' skating ability and the impressive impact it will have at the NHL level.

Somewhere, I just can't seem to place my finger on it.
 
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Polar Bear

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Surely there must be another board in which you can minimize Hughes' skating ability and the impressive impact it will have at the NHL level.

Somewhere, I just can't seem to place my finger on it.
JFC, when did I once diminish Hughes, at all? Like, look at the general forums even, I just defended Hughes against a Kakko nut in the Kakko thread several times.

I was having a disagreement about how valuable skating was in general in my PERSONAL evaluations of prospects, and obviously it's still important.

Don't take every comment about something not even about Hughes to be about him. lol
 

Jack Be Quick

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JFC, when did I once diminish Hughes, at all? Like, look at the general forums even, I just defended Hughes against a Kakko nut in the Kakko thread several times.

I was having a disagreement about how valuable skating was in general in my PERSONAL evaluations of prospects, and obviously it's still important.

Don't take every comment about something not even about Hughes to be about him. lol
Your comment(s) was directly about Hughes.

You're contrarian by nature and I generally appreciate that in an individual. But let's not be dishonest here, because that's an unfortunate trait to have.
 
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Polar Bear

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Your comment was directly about Hughes.

You're contrarian by nature and I generally appreciate that in an individual. But let's not be dishonest here, because that's an unfortunate trait to have.
My comment stemmed from a discussion from Hughes, but in no way was I knocking him. I was simply stating that in my personal opinion, I don't think skating is the sole factor that determines offensive success. Obviously, it greatly helps to be a good skater, and certainly Hughes is probably around a 9-9.5/10 skater, but that doesn't mean someone who is say a 7/10 skater can't have great offensive success.

Look at my post history, I've constantly said I'd take Hughes 1, even if I think it's more a 1A/1B scenario with Kakko.
 

Oneiro

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I get that elite puck protection is very valuable but is it more valuable than being able to set up your offense faster than most of the league? I don't think it's in the same building of importance, really. Especially for a team that's mediocre and inexperienced defensively.

There's good skating (Malkin, Crosby, etc.) and then there's the kind of skating you game-plan against (McDavid, Karlsson, MacKinnon). Hughes is absolutely in the latter category.

Cordell had a nice little write-up (admits small sample size): HockeyBuzz.com - Todd Cordell - The Jack Hughes Blog™

Some things will have to change (example, I don't think Hughes' will get the chance to reset on a zone entry as often as he does now).
 
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