2019 HHOF Mock Poll

[seventieslord]

I don't really see Alfredsson as a "bottom tier guy". I would say he's one tier above that. For me, it's kind of like this (using right wingers):
1st tier: Maurice Richard / Guy Lafleur
2nd tier: Teemu Selanne / Pavel Bure
3rd tier: Daniel Alfredsson / Henri Richard
4th tier: Mark Recchi / Glenn Anderson
I mean, I think he's safely in with a little room to spare. Being the captain / face / leader / best-player on a Canadian franchise for 14 straight years is no small potatoes. He almost led that small franchise to the Cup, and would have if his teammates didn't crap out in the Finals.

Fleury is an interesting case. You mention Barrasso having burned too many bridges, and that's what I worry about with Fleury. I think the Hall induction committee will be nervous about his induction speech -- he's likely to throw a bunch of people under the bus. Fleury obviously fails the Hall's vague criterion of "exemplifies sportsmanship and character" or whatever it says -- at least, during his playing days -- so I think his induction might depend on how the rotating committee(s) views his post-retirement legacy, which has been pretty impressive, even if I'm personally turned off by his desperate bids for celebrity recognition. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see.

But I think you're right about Barrasso. Unless one year's committee randomly throws up a couple of his ex-teammates who both nominate him, I'm wondering if the ship has sailed there.

Recchi was better than Alfredsson.

 

[The Panther]

Recchi was better than Alfredsson.

I think we could say Recchi had a higher peak than Alfredsson (c. 1991 to 1994), but I'm not sure he maintained that kind of level. After 1994 (once the high-scoring period ended), Recchi only twice scored 80 points again (the most being 91). Love Recchi, but I dunno.

Actually, an interesting question would be: How many seasons was Recchi the best player on his team?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

One out of three people think Alex Mogilny should be in the Hall of Fame?

 

[Jim MacDonald]

This was very fun to participate in! Enjoyed having to make a decision of 6 from this list. If it is cool to ask/get feedback in this thread, curious to get everyone's thoughts on why Alfredsson should get in (based on him having the most votes at the time of my selection-March 10, 2019)?

 

[trentmccleary]

Fleury is an interesting case. You mention Barrasso having burned too many bridges, and that's what I worry about with Fleury. I think the Hall induction committee will be nervous about his induction speech -- he's likely to throw a bunch of people under the bus. Fleury obviously fails the Hall's vague criterion of "exemplifies sportsmanship and character" or whatever it says -- at least, during his playing days -- so I think his induction might depend on how the rotating committee(s) views his post-retirement legacy, which has been pretty impressive, even if I'm personally turned off by his desperate bids for celebrity recognition. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see.

I've taken to calling the late 80's- early 90's the "smile generation" because of league scoring during their careers. Extremely high scoring start, low scoring middle and high scoring finish. Such that when people swoon about how consistent Modano was because of his 77 points in 1992, 2002 and 2006; it might be easier to explain why those 3 numbers mean very different things.

Fleury's career is also difficult to understand nonsense from season to season.
I think some people are guilty of ignoring the massive scoring changes during the "smile generation's" careers. Roenick's career actually makes sense given the scoring drops. There's a tiny dip in the mid-90's, but otherwise he stays on a reasonable career path. Whereas Fleury from the very start is "Good, Great, Crap... Good, Great, Crap...Good, Great, Crap." It's hard to reconcile the fact that after his first 100 point season, he posts a 0.91 full season in one of the easiest seasons to score in (probably a 50 point season during the DPE), then produces 50% more offense out of nowhere nearly 10 years later in 1999 in the middle of the Deadpuck era.

Recchi was better than Alfredsson.

Umm, no I don't think so.

Recchi was a stable producer who had incredible durably, but only hit a PPG 6 times (which is incredibly low among smile generation stars) and could apparently only hit that mark when A) he was playing on teams with generational players, B) teams with generational players who played run and gun, zero defense. When he was given the opportunity to be the Franchise player in Montreal for 5 seasons during the middle of what should have been his prime, he tied for 27th in PPG with Roenick and Zhamnov.

Players who started in late 1980's-early 1990's by 1.00+ seasons (41 GP minimum)

15 - Sakic
13 - Jagr
11 - Selanne, Turgeon
10 - Modano, Oates, Sundin
8 - Mogilny
7 - Fedorov, Fleury
6 - Bure, Janney, Nieurwendyk, Recchi, Roenick, Tkachuk, Damphousse
5 - Leclair, Shanahan, Neely
4 - Bondra

I think that Recchi being on teams with Lemieux, Jagr and Lindros resulted in by far his best seasons, but the seasons surrounding those ones are indicative of a player who was probably much less than he appeared.

I think we could say Recchi had a higher peak than Alfredsson (c. 1991 to 1994), but I'm not sure he maintained that kind of level. After 1994 (once the high-scoring period ended), Recchi only twice scored 80 points again (the most being 91). Love Recchi, but I dunno.

Actually, an interesting question would be: How many seasons was Recchi the best player on his team?

I generally find that when look at scoring data over time (I usually do 10 best years), patterns emerge and you typically see:
1-2 players way above everybody (generational?) ... Gretzky, Lemeiux, Jagr
1-2 players who're are clearly distinguishable from those above and below (elite?) ... Thornton, Selanne
8-10 players in a tight pack who are great producers over a long time (franchise players?) ... Modano
10-12 players who don't quite produce as well or as high as the players above (good players?) ... Whitney, Tanguay

I don't think Recchi was a franchise player. IMO, he proved that he clearly wasn't between 95-04. It's possible that without the peaks on run n gun teams with generational players, we could much more easily place him in the good player group.

This was very fun to participate in! Enjoyed having to make a decision of 6 from this list. If it is cool to ask/get feedback in this thread, curious to get everyone's thoughts on why Alfredsson should get in (based on him having the most votes at the time of my selection-March 10, 2019)?

Notice in the above list where Recchi is in the top-17 in pack with an injury prone player or two and only because he played on teams with 3 of best drafts picks in the history of the sport? And that list was of players who started their careers roughly in a 7 year span.

The list below is of players who were drafted between 1991-2003 and MSL because he should have been...1.00+ seasons (41 GP minimum):

9 - Lindros, Forsberg
8 - Alfredsson, Thornton, Palffy
7 - Getzlaf, Datsyuk
6 - Kariya, Kovalchuk, St. Louis
5 - Iginla, M.Savard, Demitra, Heatley
4 - Hossa, Gaborik. Naslund, D.Sedin, Spezza, E.Staal
3 - H.Sedin, Elias, Tanguay, B.Richards, Marleau, Kovalev, Weight
2 - Lecavalier, Yashin, Bertuzzi, Perry, Parise, O. Jokinen, Nash, Briere

I think the HHOF has jumped the shark on selecting players to represent the 1980's. There may be a few questions about 1990's players left. But in terms of players who should represent the 2000's, Alfredsson should be a slam dunk.

 

[Nocashstyle]

One out of three people think Alex Mogilny should be in the Hall of Fame?

I think you need to look at more than just strictly his on ice impact that adds to his legacy

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Barrasso, right out of US High School- Calder, Vezina, 1 st Team All Star
next year, Jennings and 2nd in Vezina. Later on 3 more Top 3 Vezina finalist and 2 Stanley Cups. HOF worthy, easily.

 

[frisco]

Barrasso, right out of US High School- Calder, Vezina, 1 st Team All Star
next year, Jennings and 2nd in Vezina. Later on 3 more Top 3 Vezina finalist and 2 Stanley Cups. HOF worthy, easily.

13 seasons with a winning record. All-time assist leader amongst goaltenders. Played in 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups and 2002 Olympic team. Missed practically all of two "prime" years (age 29 and 31) with injuries. All-time record 14 game playoff winning streak. Really a HOF resume with room to spare.

My Best-Carey

 

[cupcrazyman]

To be honest no one really stands out.

 

[frisco]

Because one guy was the face of his franchise and the other wasn't. That's always going to garner more respect. Alfredsson was Captain of a Canadian franchise for a long time. Elias was a guy playing for a franchise with at least three players more popular than him. Not to mention, that franchise was known more for defense than offense.

Why is the face of the franchise thing such a big deal? Never understood why this would be anything other than a bit of trivia or at best a very minor consideration. Also, Alfredsson lost a lot of his "franchise" equity by bolting to Detroit at the end.

My Best-Carey

 

[BlueBull]

Poll is Finally Done Top 4 is in:
Daniel Alfredsson
Theo Fleury
Patrik Elias
Alex Mogilny

honestly an alright list.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I've taken to calling the late 80's- early 90's the "smile generation" because of league scoring during their careers. Extremely high scoring start, low scoring middle and high scoring finish. Such that when people swoon about how consistent Modano was because of his 77 points in 1992, 2002 and 2006; it might be easier to explain why those 3 numbers mean very different things.

Fleury's career is also difficult to understand nonsense from season to season.
I think some people are guilty of ignoring the massive scoring changes during the "smile generation's" careers. Roenick's career actually makes sense given the scoring drops. There's a tiny dip in the mid-90's, but otherwise he stays on a reasonable career path. Whereas Fleury from the very start is "Good, Great, Crap... Good, Great, Crap...Good, Great, Crap." It's hard to reconcile the fact that after his first 100 point season, he posts a 0.91 full season in one of the easiest seasons to score in (probably a 50 point season during the DPE), then produces 50% more offense out of nowhere nearly 10 years later in 1999 in the middle of the Deadpuck era.

He was young, had gotten a larger target on him(If that is possible on him), and Gilmour was halfway gone so they had pre-breakout Robert Reichel moving up to his spot. It's possible that lack of playmaking and defence had their wingers suppressed especially at even strength. Although i count "only" 41 points in 41 games for Fleury up until the trade its still better than the 32 in 39 after.
Does not help that his 20.5 percent shooting percentage the year before had been in some Lemieux territory regarding that.
Still he could be uneven and god knows what different kinds of baggage he was dealing with from year to year. I guess he really had to be 100 percent Theo to force his way through much larger people all the time, to be real decisive of when exactly to enter the potentially painful slots and to risk a major league hit when going around people.

 

[WingsFan95]

It really is a bad joke Tom Barrasso isn't in the Hall already. But I guess he's only been eligible since 2007? So maybe not too bad?

He's my #1.

Doug Wilson my #2.

After that of course it becomes more dicey. I think Mogilny has waited long enough. He's had enough of those peak seasons, more than PPG on his career and some international accomplishments. Not a big question really. After him I'd go Elias because his numbers are justifiably lesser because of the team system but he showed up and was damn consistent and his playoff numbers are up there along with 2 titles.

Since I think goaltenders are being backlogged way too much I'd put Cujo and Beezer in to round out.

Fleury and Alfredsson are more fan favourite choices that will go in based off that (several all-star games) but don't scream out to me as must haves.

 

[streitz]

Alfredsson because everyone else seems to be voting for him. Fine player but I was never overly impressed. Plenty worse in the Hall.
Fleury because he was fun to watch and proved a small man can get it done
Reonick because I liked his book for the most part
Joseph because it must have sucked to have been named after such a crappy movie. Also pretty good goalie.
Osgood because of his leadership
Nicholls because it would be funny, people really hate this guy for his 150 point season for some reason.