2019 Entry Draft Thread (HF Draft Discord server, post #652)

Who are we finally drafting?


  • Total voters
    66
Status
Not open for further replies.

ProspectsFanatic

Registered User
Nov 13, 2012
3,696
2,426
Broberg or Harley seem like the correct discussion to have over the other defensemen, they basically have all the tools, you just need to figure out which one of the two will put it all together the best. I would guess one of the two will end up being a better player than York, Soderstrom and Heinola. Maybe, Seider could sneak as the better player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Estimated_Prophet

ProspectsSTC

Registered User
Jul 12, 2014
3,474
2,021
Can we stop with the Thomas Chabot comparisons with Harley ? Its a comparison that comes from his name, its a lazy cognitive link because of name, position size and handedness.
Size, skating ability, playstyle in the offensive zone, vision. They do play fairly similarly, but Chabot is smarter and far better defensively.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garnet76

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
25,919
East Coast
Can we stop with the Thomas Chabot comparisons with Harley ? Its a comparison that comes from his name, its a lazy cognitive link because of name, position size and handedness.

Relax. It's a style comparison, not solely on skill or value.

Size, skating ability, playstyle in the offensive zone, vision. They do play fairly similarly, but Chabot is smarter and far better defensively.

It's easy to pump up Chabot today based on the season he just had but he had similar issues to his game pre-draft and even in his draft +1.

Chabot looked so so at the 16 WJC but broke out in the 17 WJC. The performance he had in his draft +2 was where people starting believing. That was when he was 19/20. Harley will be 19 the entire season of his draft +2

I don't recall Chabot being a defensive beast in the Q. There were issues to his game and it was similar to Harley today.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Adam Michaels

Registered User
Jun 12, 2016
77,276
124,060
Montreal
Here comes people's favorite game to play during the draft: the comparables:

Pierre McGuire said that good comparables for Thomas Harley are Thomas Chabot and Vince Dunn.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
10,160
10,173
Broberg or Harley seem like the correct discussion to have over the other defensemen, they basically have all the tools, you just need to figure out which one of the two will put it all together the best. I would guess one of the two will end up being a better player than York, Soderstrom and Heinola. Maybe, Seider could sneak as the better player.

I feel like these are the two guys that Timmins has in mind at LD. I prefer both to York but Seider definitely is the wildcard here.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
91,123
91,576
Halifax
I just think the IQ thing is very tough to call with Broberg. He was a young 17 playing in a men's league where most of these kids would look terrible.

While I like Harley quite a bit, the only comparable with the two are the under 18's where Broberg was considerably more impressive than Harley. I suspect that if Broberg played for a decent team in the CHL that their might be some debate over Byram vs Broberg.

I've made the comparison before.
If Broberg had high IQ with his tools, how come Heinola with less tools did so much better in a men's league?

The gap has to be IQ. There's no other explanation. I can't see a guy with Brobergs tools at 17 or 18 with high IQ being completely ineffective.

Not to mention that high IQ guys don't just skate with their head down and rip a shot on net every rush.
 

WinterLion

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
5,251
5,233
“I want to draft players that are engaged and work hard. He waited for everyone else to do the work.” - NHL Scout, December 2018

"He doesn’t do any of the heavy lifting out there.” NHL Scout, December 2018

“Skating is hard to judge. I’ve seen him blow past guys and other nights I think his skating is average at best.” - NHL Scout, January 2019

“McMichael had games where he looks like a top-6 scoring talent, and had other games where you needed to look at the line-up sheet to see if he was actually playing” – HP Scout, Brad Allen

"I think I managed to see him 10 times before I saw a game that looked like it matched his stats.” HP Scout, Mark Edwards, May 2019

“He won't be wearing a ______ jersey anytime soon.” -NHL Scout, May 2019


Sounds like that's our guy! ;)
 

HockeyDBspecialist

Habs 2019 cup champ
Jan 30, 2018
6,000
3,386
Montreal
Harley all day.

Still not sure where all the York love comes from. I wouldn't touch alot of those USDP players. The team absolutely RAN OVER the competition this year. Everyone pit up big points, it's like playing on Tampa. In 10 years everyone is going to look back and see that too many of those guys were taken too high. York will be one of those.

Harley is extremely young. If he was to play 2 more seasons in CHL (possibly 2 World Jr. too), and even a season in AHL, he would only be 20 by the end of it all, in April 2020. That's a ton of time to to refine his game. He's going to be a Chabot-esque steal.

Although, Broberg would still be a nice pick. If somehow Newhook, or Krebs (do to injury), falls in the draft then they would be huge picks too. Wouldn't be against Seider either.

For me it's no York, Lavoie, Soderstrom, Kaliyev, or Suzuki. If it's anyone else then I think we will be okay.
Also, if we decide to pick Laasi Thomson then I would like Bergevin to try and trade down into the 20s.

Harley has one of the best shot IMO and a great follow-up in the Ozone, but his defending is really bad. I'm not sure I would touch a player with such difficulty in his own zone.
 

habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
8,741
11,238
Nova Scotia
I was trying to decide who I would take as a LD if Broberg if off the table. Spend some time with Harley and he appears to be a good character guy with offensive skill and decent mobility for a tall skinny frame.

He really stepped up for the Steelheads this season as a 17 year old and playing a bigger role. I like his vision a lot from the video I watched. Reminds me of Markov. If we are talking about weakness, it looks like he is average in his own end but he does have solid mobility and a long reach which causes problems for forwards.

I wish I could see some video on his defensive play. Most of the video I see if all offense. The other thing I noticed is he has a solid shot but it's a wrister most of the time. I don't think I have seen one slab shot


His slapshot is rumored to be on the weak side which might explain his lack of using it
 

ProspectsFanatic

Registered User
Nov 13, 2012
3,696
2,426
I've made the comparison before.
If Broberg had high IQ with his tools, how come Heinola with less tools did so much better in a men's league?

The gap has to be IQ. There's no other explanation. I can't see a guy with Brobergs tools at 17 or 18 with high IQ being completely ineffective.

Not to mention that high IQ guys don't just skate with their head down and rip a shot on net every rush.
Broberg also inexplicably had 17-0-3-3 in international play last season with the U17. I believe people are putting too much stock on the small sample of the recent U18 tournaments.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
25,919
East Coast
Button's ratings on Harley...
ZBGl5DL.jpg


York
lcsHHW0.jpg


They just look so similar on the ice it's hard not to compare them...

I see the comparison myself. Some are just to sensitive about player comparisons.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
8,741
11,238
Nova Scotia
I'd draft whatever winger falls if there's a glut of centers and d picked early barring that my pick would be whoever the best defensman left is likely seider.
 

Dominator13

Registered User
Feb 20, 2003
19,484
1,057
hockey city
Dominator13
Cam York.

He's everything both our prospect pool and our pro tream needs. We've never recovered from losing Markov, Beaulieu being a bust and Sergachev traded set us back for years on D.

York, outside of Byram, is the most creative D in the draft. His hockey IQ is unreal.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,764
53,495
Citizen of the world
Just like the lazy comparison of Heinola with Markov.

It’s a stylistic comparison, not a literal one.

Except its probably the best comparison I can come up with. If you actually watched him, you'd know what I'm talking about. Its not a lazy comparison because both are named Thomas and over 6'.

Size, skating ability, playstyle in the offensive zone, vision. They do play fairly similarly, but Chabot is smarter and far better defensively.

Thats the thing, they don't play the same way at all. Chabot is oppressive in his use of his skating, he's super aggressive and finds openings with great creativity. Meanwhile, Harley is much more reserved, uses his skating sparingly, goes for the quick pass more often than not and chooses to play the cycle instead of being the core of the play.

Relax. It's a style comparison, not solely on skill or value.

Its a style comparison that youve made when you didn't know a thing about Harley yesterday, by your own words.

My guess is that its made because they both share really dumb things like height, name, handedness and reputation.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
10,160
10,173
I've made the comparison before.
If Broberg had high IQ with his tools, how come Heinola with less tools did so much better in a men's league?

The gap has to be IQ. There's no other explanation. I can't see a guy with Brobergs tools at 17 or 18 with high IQ being completely ineffective.

Not to mention that high IQ guys don't just skate with their head down and rip a shot on net every rush.

Different linemates, coach, systems etc.

I am not discounting the possibility of an IQ deficit, just that it is exceptionally difficult to accurately identify in very young dmen. The presence of high IQ is easy to spot but sometimes there are mitigating circumstances that masquerade as low IQ.

Some kids just handle new environments better than others. If Broberg struggles this season than there is reason for concern. At the end of the day that is a very real risk but his struggles do not necessarily mean that he can't demonstrate a high IQ at the pro level.

I hire kids out of University and some of my brightest stars are the one's who initially struggled the most. Sometimes the combination of overthinking, performance anxiety and unfamiliar surroundings are overwhelming to a kid who hasn't struggled with anything before.

Unfortunately we have to make a decision with Broberg without the benefit of clear foresight. There is definitely a risk but I think it is premature to write off his IQ this early in his development. The fact is that every kid has warts at 15 in this draft so no matter who we select there will be some level of apprehension.
 

ProspectsSTC

Registered User
Jul 12, 2014
3,474
2,021
Except its probably the best comparison I can come up with. If you actually watched him, you'd know what I'm talking about. Its not a lazy comparison because both are named Thomas and over 6'.



Thats the thing, they don't play the same way at all. Chabot is oppressive in his use of his skating, he's super aggressive and finds openings with great creativity. Meanwhile, Harley is much more reserved, uses his skating sparingly, goes for the quick pass more often than not and chooses to play the cycle instead of being the core of the play.



Its a style comparison that youve made when you didn't know a thing about Harley yesterday, by your own words.

My guess is that its made because they both share really dumb things like height, name, handedness and reputation.
I think we must have watched different OHL games of Harley, in each one I saw he was incredibly aggressive, often leading the forecheck with his skating and playing as more of a rover than a defenseman.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
91,123
91,576
Halifax
Here's some groups I have

Trap prospects (these guys have tools that wow you but there's question marks that if answered mean they become great NHLers but if they aren't, they will bust or be far below projections)
Dylan Cozens
Peyton Krebs
Philip Broberg
Vasili Podkolzin
Cam York
Thomas Harley
Raphael Lavoie
Moritz Seider

No drafts (guys I just don't draft)
Artur Kaliyev
Ryan Suzuki
Alex Vlasic

Guys with first round grades that I wouldn't pick until the second
Samuel Poulin
Jakob Pelletier
 
Last edited:

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
39,551
38,961
Except its probably the best comparison I can come up with. If you actually watched him, you'd know what I'm talking about. Its not a lazy comparison because both are named Thomas and over 6'.

Yes it’s lazy to compare him to one of the best defenders of the 2000s just because they are both LD and around 6’0. Heinola is more like Ryan Ellis without the slapshot than he is Markov.
 

Yoshidas Island

TY for the memories Yosh :'(
Jan 2, 2015
2,703
665
Button is a tried and tested moron. He is a very simple man, incapable of imparting wisdom on any topic to anyone.....
I mean they're not inherently bad, but I'm the biggest York fanboy here and I'd still give his skating a 4, whereas defensive play being less than Harley's screams <?> to me

I feel like Billy Constantinou will be this year's Wyatte Wylie or Jakob Ragnarsson.
Player I want taken with the selection before we pick :(
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->