2019 Draft Thread: We Already Got a Kaapo

[AKL]

Why would he take a pick + Frolik at the deadline and not now? lol

Because Frolik was the target and the pick, again, not confirmed a first, was the difference in value. Frolik is an NHL player that would play on the roster next year at right wing. Do you notice how none of the other rumored offers or deals are centered around a pick?

 

[Spurgeon]

Because Frolik was the target and the pick, again, not confirmed a first, was the difference in value. Frolik is an NHL player that would play on the roster next year at right wing. Do you notice how none of the other rumored offers or deals are centered around a pick?

There's not a chance in hell that a 31 year old (1 year from UFA) that has never scored over 20 goals in his career was the target in the trade.

 

[AKL]

There's not a chance in hell that a 31 year old (1 year from UFA) that has never scored over 20 goals in his career was the target in the trade.

Yes there is.

 

[2Pair]

He wouldn’t take an 11-16 pick because it’s not going to help him make the playoffs next year. I don’t know what you’re confused about.

What makes you think that "making the playoffs next year" is the driving factor of a Zucker trade?

 

[AJ Thelen]

Came across this on the Prospects-board. A short movie about Newhook.

 

[Bazeek]

There's not a chance in hell that a 31 year old (1 year from UFA) that has never scored over 20 goals in his career was the target in the trade.

We can't rule it out. Breaking this down...

Facts
- Calgary was 2nd in the league at the end of February, which is where they ended up finishing as well.
- As such, even at the time of the trade Calgary's 1st likely to be around #26 at best.

Well-founded rumors
- The deal was Zucker for Frolik and "a high pick"
- The deal was largely agreed upon and fell through for unknown reasons

That leaves us with three possibilities.

1.) Fenton saw the pick as the main piece in the deal and Frolik was a throw-in to balance the cap and roster spot (and spare Treliving from having Walsh roast him on Twitter over Frolik's usage). This means that Fenton saw Zucker for the "high pick" as being a fair deal, and that pick sure as hell have been a 1st.

2.) Fenton saw both Frolik and the pick (1st or 2nd) as adding value to the deal. Frolik plays the RW, kills penalties, and is at least a serviceable 3rd line guy. Maybe he wasn't lying today when he said he saw Fiala as a natural RW and thought adding another RW that could pull the tougher defensive shifts while the young guys got the easier ones made sense.

3.) Fenton saw Frolik as the main piece and the pick (likely a 2nd, in this sceenario) as a sweetener. This again assumes that he saw Frolik as some kind of PK'ing RW that could take harder defensive minutes blahblahblah. Sound dumb? Well it's roughly the same justification we've gotten for the Nino trade: better fit positionally, some hope he bounces back with a change of scenery, etc.

The assumption seems to be that 3 or even 2 can't possibly be true, but it's absolutely no worse than a trade he's already made and relies on essentially the same rationale.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think it’s possible that neither pieces were “targeted”. Just two pieces that had to be put together for the deal to make any shred of a semblance of sense.

Frolik solves the “win now” part; the first rounder saves the value disaster that it would’ve been if it was Frolik alone.

 

[Bazeek]

I think it’s possible that neither pieces were “targeted”. Just two pieces that had to be put together for the deal to make any shred of a semblance of sense.

Frolik solves the “win now” part; the first rounder saves the value disaster that it would’ve been if it was Frolik alone.

I guess what really bothers me is that, no matter how I slice it, it's hard to look at this or the Nino deal and not think that Fenton's main goal going in was to get rid of the player he was trading. Whether it was because of fit or contract or underperformance or whatever, it's hard to look at that deal and not think that getting rid of Zucker was at least as important as what he was getting back. And while I don't want to roast him for a deal that he hasn't actually made, it still bothers me.

 

[AKL]

Seems like I’m a few days late to the party, but based on the interview Fenton did with Falness it sounds like he might reach for Bobby Brink, depending on who’s available when we pick.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Seems like I’m a few days late to the party, but based on the interview Fenton did with Falness it sounds like he might reach for Bobby Brink, depending on who’s available when we pick.

I’d be conflicted, but maybe it’s not a reach? Hopefully?

 

[Bazeek]

Seems like I’m a few days late to the party, but based on the interview Fenton did with Falness it sounds like he might reach for Bobby Brink, depending on who’s available when we pick.

Was that on the PONDCast?

I haven't heard it yet, but if he's thinking about Brink he might be more interested in another 1st than we've been thinking.

 

[AKL]

I’d be conflicted, but maybe it’s not a reach? Hopefully?

I most likely wouldn’t like it. I just can’t see a way that one of Newhook, Krebs or Broberg isn’t there and I’d rather take one of them. But if we do end up getting Brink I hope he proves me wrong.

Was that on the PONDCast?

I haven't heard it yet, but if he's thinking about Brink he might be more interested in another 1st than we've been thinking.

Yeah it was. What worries me is that the reason Johansson was taken is because he liked him but didn’t think he’d be there at our next pick. Well he had a lot of high praise for Brink, and Brink almost certainly won’t be there at 42. And I still believe he’s trying to get an NHL player back as the main piece in a Zucker deal.

 

[Bazeek]

I most likely wouldn’t like it. I just can’t see a way that one of Newhook, Krebs or Broberg isn’t there and I’d rather take one of them. But if we do end up getting Brink I hope he proves me wrong.



Yeah it was. What worries me is that the reason Johansson was taken is because he liked him but didn’t think he’d be there at our next pick. Well he had a lot of high praise for Brink, and Brink almost certainly won’t be there at 42. And I still believe he’s trying to get an NHL player back as the main piece in a Zucker deal.

Maybe someone to trade back for if there's a run on guys at the top of his board.

 

[AKL]

Maybe someone to trade back for if there's a run on guys at the top of his board.

Didn’t really sound like that was his radar. He remarked on how he’s confident the player we get at 12 was going to be very good.

 

[Sarge58]

It would be short sighted if Leipold nudges Fenton into making trades to squeak this team into the playoff (most likely aging defensively responsible vets) It gets old watching a boring middling team year after year. The blame would fall on Fenton if they fail to make the playoffs or look the fools losing in the first round for another 3-5 more years even though it was more Leipolds vision and not his.

 

[Sarge58]

I'm going to try and summarize various draft rankings to find the "consenus".

So far I have the following: HockeyProspect.com, The Hockey News, The Hockey Writers, Pronman, Button, ISS and the HF Prospect Forum. Will try and add others when more final rankings come out.

Anybody who wasn't on a top 31 ranking was assigned a 32.

Average rankings:

1. Hughes
2. Kakko
3. Byram
4. Turcotte
5. Zegras
6. Podkolzin
7. Caufield
8. Dach
9. Cozens
10. Boldy
11. Krebs
12. Broberg
13. Newhook
14. York
15. Seider
16. Soderstrom
17. Harley
18. Lavoie
19. Kaliyev
20. Brink
21. Tomasino
22. Heinola
23. Suzuki
24. Knight
25. Hoglander
26. Robertson
27. Bjornfot
28. Poulin
29. Dorofyev
30. McMichael
31. Kolyachonok

Well if that's the way it turns out which I strongly doubt, I'd choose Newhook maybe Kaliyev as Dmen at our pick would mostly be 3yrs give or take away from contributing. Even then Dmen are second to goalies at projecting.

 

[AKL]

It would be short sighted if Leipold nudges Fenton into making trades to squeak this team into the playoff (most likely aging defensively responsible vets) It gets old watching a boring middling team year after year. The blame would fall on Fenton if they fail to make the playoffs or look the fools losing in the first round for another 3-5 more years even though it was more Leipolds vision and not his.

Did you consider that Fenton was hired because he told Leipold his vision and Leipold liked what he heard?

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Wouldn't be upset if we grabbed Podkolzin, especially considering where he's been ranked by multiple sources. Think there's going to be a large run on centers, so if it's between grabbing the 1st/2nd best winger vs. the 7th/8th best center, I'd lean towards the Russian. I think having an influx of Russian players might be the culture change this organization needs, considering Fletcher's reluctance to draft them. Podkolzin and Kaprizov could really benefit from one another too IMO.



Think the only trade that could be feasible would be for Philly's pick, which is mainly due to the Fletcher connection. I think they could use another LW scorer, but I don't think they want to be paying JVR $7M to play on the 3rd line.

I don’t really like podkolzin and would prefer not to take him @ 12, but then again what do I know. I wouldn’t be mad if we took him because there is a chance he could be a superstar.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I most likely wouldn’t like it. I just can’t see a way that one of Newhook, Krebs or Broberg isn’t there and I’d rather take one of them. But if we do end up getting Brink I hope he proves me wrong.

Take it for what it is, which might be nothing, but if you comp his USHL numbers with the NTDP guys (Turcotte, Zegras, Boldy), he's basically right on par with all of them or better, except for maybe Hughes. Same if you go back years and look at Connor, Larkin, Kunin, basically everybody except Matthews and Eichel.

He also didn't look too out of place with them, skill-wise, at the U18's.

 

[Bazeek]

Take it for what it is, which might be nothing, but if you comp his USHL numbers with the NTDP guys (Turcotte, Zegras, Boldy), he's basically right on par with all of them or better, except for maybe Hughes. Same if you go back years and look at Connor, Larkin, Kunin, basically everybody except Matthews and Eichel.

He also didn't look too out of place with them, skill-wise, at the U18's.

It would be kind of embarrassing to get Boeser'ed again.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It would be kind of embarrassing to get Boeser'ed again.

Oh yeah, Boeser too.

 

[Bazeek]

Oh yeah, Boeser too.

Wow, you weren't kiddin'.

Boeser: 35G - 33A - 68P (57 games played for Waterloo)
Brink: 35G - 33A - 68P (43 games played for Sioux City)

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I could absolutely see Brink turning into a stud and I don’t think he would be a bad pick at 12, I just think it would be bad value considering we could easily trade back and get him at 20. I would love to get him if we added another 1st. My ideal draft would be adding a first and getting something like this:

12-Newhook. I think the kids a stud. I don’t think he is going to be a good enough player to base out rebuild around, but him and Kaprizov make a great 2 and 3 punch in terms of adding real high skill players. This is why I’m a big propenent of tanking next year because I think if we add a Byfield/Lafrienere/Raymond to Kaprizov/Newhook, we’re in a great position to transition and compete while our defense is still elite.
20-Brink/Tomasino. I’ve spent the last day or two researching Tomasino. I love the way he skates and plays the game. I think he’d make a real good #2 center for us if he was available. Brink I have some concerns about skating and size-wise, but his production is undeniable.
42-Dorofeyev, Puistola, Lassi Thompson, Nikolaev, Kalyonconok. I’d be fine taking a flyer on any of these guys as I think they all have a decent chance of becoming top 6/top 4 players. Dorofeyev has a shot to be a game breaker, but I have some concerns about his compete and the style of game he plays. The others are relatively medium risk huh reward which I think are good moves in the 2nd round.
In the 3rd round I like Robert Mastrosimone and Markus Kallionkelli

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Wow, you weren't kiddin'.

Boeser: 35G - 33A - 68P (57 games played for Waterloo)
Brink: 35G - 33A - 68P (43 games played for Sioux City)

Brink’s production this year is essentially better than anyone in the USHL outside of Hughes and Turcotte. When you consider his quality of teammates too compared to who guys like boldy and caufield played with in NTDP, he looks even better.

 

[Bazeek]

Listening to the actual interview now, I'll point out that the Brink stuff was in response to a question about his thoughts on Minnesota-born players in this draft and it came right after a question about how smaller players (like Caufield) aren't stigmatized the way they used to be. I can see how Minnesota + small would lead him to bring up Brink.