2019 Draft Thread: We Already Got a Kaapo

[AKL]

Turcotte>Zegras>Newhook for me. Though we don’t get a shot at the first two. I like Newhooks game better at this point, and frankly I’d be willing to be wrong in the future and take Newhook over Krebs.

Totally agree that we need one of the four more than we need Kaliyev or Caufield.

 

[DANOZ28]

57, any of those will probably be good picks , i'd still throw in lavoie & pelletier as possibilities. newhook is my favorite.

 

[zellmatic]

Newhook looks good!

 

[57special]

Krebs has a more complete game, but I like Newhook . Pelletier is nifty, but not in the same tier. Lavoie...I like sometimes, others not so much, does that floating thing till there is an offensive chance.

Turcotte, Zegras, Krebs, will all likely be gone.

 

[zellmatic]

Yeah it could just be some confirmation bias on my part regarding Newhook. I have been watching his highlights as it seems that he could be one of the players we have a shot at. His numbers this year in the BCHL are outstanding(102 pts in 53 gp). Now it is a plus to see him have a good showing at the IIHF U18.

 

[keppel146]

The one guy who I have a bad gut feeling about is Kaliyev. Do not want him at the moment. Feel like he might only be a PP specialist and not much else 5v5. Praying 2 dmen sneak into the top 11.

 

[57special]

The one guy who I have a bad gut feeling about is Kaliyev. Do not want him at the moment. Feel like he might only be a PP specialist and not much else 5v5. Praying 2 dmen sneak into the top 11.

Have you seen him play?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Have you seen him play?

Have any of us seen any of these guys?

 

[keppel146]

Edit

 

[keppel146]

It seemed like they were all on the PP when watching highlights. so I looked it up. Kaliyev—20 PP goals. -13 on year for a guy who scored 102 points. 2 points in 4 playoff games and -8. Was Hamilton really that bad? Yikes.

 

[57special]

Have any of us seen any of these guys?

I like to see some clips before saying too much. At the pace Kaliyev is scoring in the OHL, and the way Central Scouting has him ranked, I think it would be unwise to just dismiss him out of hand. I've watched some of his highlights - I have an interest in Hamilton because I used to live there.

 

[2Pair]

The one guy who I have a bad gut feeling about is Kaliyev. Do not want him at the moment. Feel like he might only be a PP specialist and not much else 5v5. Praying 2 dmen sneak into the top 11.

This is my feeling about Caufield. Kaliyev could certainly fit the description as well.

 

[keppel146]

I like to see some clips before saying too much. At the pace Kaliyev is scoring in the OHL, and the way Central Scouting has him ranked, I think it would be unwise to just dismiss him out of hand. I've watched some of his highlights - I have an interest in Hamilton because I used to live there.

I’m not disagreeing with your statement, but just to comment further about Kaliyev in general: and I know the debate or hate regarding +/-, but isn’t -13 for a player who puts up 102 points a red flag? On a playoff team to boot, even if they weren’t the best they still made the playoffs. Everyone else who scored 100+ in the OHL was in the plus 14-56 range. I suppose his line mates could be garbage but..I know Krebs had a terrible +/- for example, but his team didn’t make the playoffs.

 

[keppel146]

Edit.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I’m not disagreeing with your statement, but just to comment further about Kaliyev in general: and I know the debate or hate regarding +/-, but isn’t -13 for a player who puts up 102 points a red flag? On a playoff team to boot, even if they weren’t the best they still made the playoffs. Everyone else who scored 100+ in the OHL was in the plus 14-56 range. I know Krebs had a terrible +/- for example, but his team didn’t make the playoffs.

He's pretty average on his own team. They might have made the playoffs, but they weren't a good team. Below .500

 

[keppel146]

Wild’s conditional 5th becomes a 4th rounder with the Bruins winning. From the Donato trade.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Wild’s conditional 5th becomes a 4th rounder with the Bruins winning. From the Donato trade.

Too bad it wasn't a step up for every round won.

 

[57special]

I’m not disagreeing with your statement, but just to comment further about Kaliyev in general: and I know the debate or hate regarding +/-, but isn’t -13 for a player who puts up 102 points a red flag? On a playoff team to boot, even if they weren’t the best they still made the playoffs. Everyone else who scored 100+ in the OHL was in the plus 14-56 range. I suppose his line mates could be garbage but..I know Krebs had a terrible +/- for example, but his team didn’t make the playoffs.

+/- is a garbage stat. Watch Kaliyev, and tell me the guy can't shoot, and score, and all in a better league than the USHL. If you are going to rave about Caufield and his goal scoring prowess on a stacked team, then you at least have to give a nod to Kaliyev and his production.

 

[2Pair]

+/- is a garbage stat. Watch Kaliyev, and tell me the guy can't shoot, and score, and all in a better league than the USHL. If you are going to rave about Caufield and his goal scoring prowess on a stacked team, then you at least have to give a nod to Kaliyev and his production.

No it isn't. It's the same as any other statistic, in that it's only valuable in the correct context. Using it to compare players from different teams isn't the correct context.

 

[keppel146]

No it isn't. It's the same as any other statistic, in that it's only valuable in the correct context. Using it to compare players from different teams isn't the correct context.

So there is no perfect context? If you aren’t going to compare it to players on different teams, then you might as well throw it out? Or just stats in general.

 

[keppel146]

+/- is a garbage stat. Watch Kaliyev, and tell me the guy can't shoot, and score, and all in a better league than the USHL. If you are going to rave about Caufield and his goal scoring prowess on a stacked team, then you at least have to give a nod to Kaliyev and his production.

A nod no doubt, but not the best overall player imo at 12 that the Wild should get.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So there is no perfect context? If you aren’t going to compare it to players on different teams, then you might as well throw it out? Or just stats in general.

It's just more useful for players on the same team. In Kaliyev's case, it's not like he's a -13 on a team of plus players. That would be quite the outlier. In his case, his entire team is a minus.

 

[57special]

So there is no perfect context? If you aren’t going to compare it to players on different teams, then you might as well throw it out? Or just stats in general.

This year, our defensive specialist, Jonas Brodin had the worst +/-. Last year, guess who had the best +/-? Jonas Brodin.

=/- is a garbage stat, and a holdover from back in the the 60 and 70's when it was considered an "advanced stat".

 

[AKL]

It's a pretty garbage stat for the most part. It's pretty closely correlated to time on ice. The more ice time you get, the more likely you are to have a high +/- on a good team or a low +/- on a bad team. Look at the Kings this season.

I mean, what do you do with that information? It doesn't really tell you a whole lot.

 

[57special]

I do know that Kaliyev is flying under the radar right now, while Caufield is very much on it. It will settle down after a while and even out before the draft.
They both excel at putting the puck in the net. Neither are elite at anything else...so far, anyway.