Prospect Info: 2019 Draft Talk (Part Deux)

[ZDH]

Kakko will never be able to do some of what Hughes does either.

That kind of vision as a playmaker is super rare.

I get they have different skillsets but nobody is ever going to knock Kakkos vision. It's not drastically behind that of Hughes by any means. But as for physicality - that's pretty drastic.

Kakko might be stronger right now than Hughes will ever be...

 

[Henkka]

Hughes is one of the best 10 offensive players I have seen in my lifetime. He is a runaway #1 for me.

I've seen great things from Hughes against juniors. But I've seen nothing from him against men. Total no-show. That's a concern when looking how well Kakko does the same thing. Like he was born to play against men at top level. It's mind-blowing.

More and more, in big picture, these junior programs like US has or junior leagues like CHL, seem not to develop players to play against men AT ALL. They can beat juniors on draft age. But not men.

And currently, Finnish league does the opposite with best talents at superior level. You can skip the AHL with guys from Finnish league if the physics are ok. Like Kotkaniemi came. Like Laine came. They learn from Liiga-vets in a smart Finnish team-work culture and at same time they get used to play against men/stronger bodies. No easy way to beat dum juniors with dum junior habits. It seems to be the best developmental platform for a 17-18 year old hockey players atm.

I understand it fully. Juniors won't learn from juniors. Kids will learn from old goats at best way. That has been the message from our management kind of forever.

 

[ZDH]

Either way it's super close and by no means a runaway...

 

[Frk It]

I get they have different skillsets but nobody is ever going to knock Kakkos vision. It's not drastically behind that of Hughes by any means. But as for physicality - that's pretty drastic.

Kakko might be stronger right now than Hughes will ever be...

If they had similar vision Hughes wouldn’t be the #1 prospect... plain and simple.

He makes every winger/player he plays with better with his anticipation and how he sees the ice. Would we be taking about Caufield and Zegras going where they will if not for Hughes? No disrespect to them, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[ZDH]

He may be the "#1 prospect" but it's super close. Not every team has Hughes #1...

I'm looking forward to how they progress and the obvious NJ vs NYR rivalry. I'll say it now so you can quote me on it if I'm wrong - I think Kakko will be better than Hughes.

 

[The Zermanator]

#6 and SJ 2nd round pick (currently #61, I believe) for #4, assuming Byram gets passed on by Chicago. Do you do it?

I'd do the #6 plus the #35, honestly. We need star players more than complementary guys at this point. I think we can get more organizational value out of improving our top 10 pick than by standing pat and picking what will likely be another complementary player at best. Here is how I see our organizational depth for the near future:

Offence
Star: Larkin, Zadina (maybe)
Complementary: AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Veleno, Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Hirose, Berggren

Defence
Star D: Hronek (big maybe)
Complementary D: McIsaac, Cholowski, Lindstrom, Bowey, Saarijarvi, Kaski

We're pretty well-rounded going forward as far as complementary guys go on both offence and defence, what we need more than anything now is to start filling up those star lists. The top end of this draft is looking really strong and the top drafted D ends up being an elite piece far more often than not. Standouts from the last 10 years include Dahlin, Heiskanen, Makar, Jones, Hanifin, Ekblad, Rielly, Hedman. It can't be overstated how huge getting a player who can hang in that group would be for this franchise.

If Byram is there at 4 I do that deal every time, I'd even toss in a Svechnikov/Saarijarvi-level prospect if that's what it takes to get it done. In a couple years we could be looking at this D-core:

Byram-Karlsson/Trouba (Cholowski traded for Trouba if we draft Byram and strike out on Karlsson)
McIsaac-Hronek

 

[Frk It]

Not every team has Hughes #1.

I’m sure, but a kid that is 5’9 and 160 something lbs wouldn’t be talked about the way he is if he didn’t do things exceptionally well, and he does.

He is an exceptional skater and sees the ice better than anyone in this draft. Kakko is a fantastic all-around player, I’m a big fan, but Hughes will probably always have the advantage in those 2 areas.

I think we will talk about these kids like Taylor/Tyler where you could make an argument for either one on any given year. I think it will be good for the game.

 

[Brett44]

From AVS fan , i agree with 6th, 54th and Svechnikov

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I've seen great things from Hughes against juniors. But I've seen nothing from him against men. Total no-show. That's a concern when looking how well Kakko does the same thing. Like he was born to play against men at top level. It's mind-blowing.

More and more, in big picture, these junior programs like US has or junior leagues like CHL, seem not to develop players to play against men AT ALL. They can beat juniors on draft age. But not men.

And currently, Finnish league does the opposite with best talents at superior level. You can skip the AHL with guys from Finnish league if the physics are ok. Like Kotkaniemi came. Like Laine came. They learn from Liiga-vets in a smart Finnish team-work culture and at same time they get used to play against men/stronger bodies. No easy way to beat dum juniors with dum junior habits. It seems to be the best developmental platform for a 17-18 year old hockey players atm.

I understand it fully. Juniors won't learn from juniors. Kids will learn from old goats at best way. That has been the message from our management kind of forever.

I get why Finnish fans are excited, but the best player in the game is Connor McDavid, he played major junior, so did Nathan MacKinnon. Kucherov was predominantly in the MHL i.e. Russian juniors through the year after his draft. I am not buying this argument and projecting a player moving forward is what this is all about, not that Kakko might be better at 18 which for me is going to be debatable anyway, but I think there is a bigger debate here than there will be in 5 years. Hughes will need to fill out strength wise similar to Patrick Kane, who while not a big guy has about 20 lbs more of muscle than he did when he was drafted.

Also for the record I think Jack Hughes would tear apart SM-liiga in a similar fashion, heck our seventh round pick who gives away 30 lbs and a few inches to Hughes went point per game down the stretch. You can make whatever argument you want. I see in Jack Hughes a top 10 skater and top 10 passer of the puck, not just in terms of how I feel about juniors, I mean in 30+ years of watching hockey and including the NHL guys I have seen. He has special vision and playmaking ability. He also is one of the most exciting players to watch play hockey, a pay the price of admission for 41 games and be happy every night ala Fedorov. The Devils might pass up on him, I think it would be a huge mistake, but honestly for USA hockey having him wind up with the Rangers is more ideal from a marketing and health of the game standpoint but we shall see. I would be stunned if Shero did it, but I agree with @Frk It that this probably will be debated for a long time regardless. With MacKinnon and McDavid already in the game I don't think they can be Ovie vs Crosby, but the fact they are going to arch-rivals should make this pretty interesting to track.

 

[Henkka]

All the rumours are pointing out that TOP4 will be Byram, Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte (in Alphabetical order, no reason to freak out).

So we will draft from Cozens/Dach/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs -group.

C/RW Dylan Cozens
6'3, shoots Right

Cozens may never challenge for a scoring title, but he will still be able to score enough to be a first line centre. Add in his strong defensive game, and the potential to grow into a Selke calibre centre and he could be a franchise-changing force up the middle. While he has also played the wing in junior (mainly his rookie year), his skating, vision and hockey IQ all suggest his future is at centre. In terms of playing style, he is reminiscent of Ryan Kesler, though this is not a skill-level comparison.

C Kirby Dach
6'4, shoots Right

Dach is close to being NHL ready but might be best off with one more year of junior hockey. There are some improvements that can still be made in terms of adding muscle to his frame, cleaning up his first step and acceleration, and continuing to have confidence in his shot. Those flaws are minor though and should easily be fixed as he matures. Dach could grow to become a top-line NHL centre. His game is reminiscent of Ryan Getzlaf but this is a style comparison only and not one based on talent.

C Trevor Zegras
6'0, shoots Left

Zegras has the potential to be an effective two-way forward in the NHL. He will need some time to develop though. Heading to the NCAA will give him the time to bulk up and get stronger before heading to the pro game. If a team is willing to be patient, they could end up with a very effective player. While he projects as a centre, he has spent time on the wing as well. Zegras’ game is reminiscent of Evgeny Kuznetsov. This is a stylistic comparison though, not one based on talent level.

RW Vasili Podkolzin
6'1, shoots left

Podkolzin is close to being NHL ready but as mentioned above, whatever team drafts him will need to have patience due to his KHL situation. He could be a first line winger in the NHL, using both skill and power to put up points. While this is by no means a talent comparison, his game and style is reminiscent of Rick Nash.

C/LW Peyton Krebs
5'11, shoots Left

Krebs has played both wing and centre at the junior level. With his skating ability, vision, playmaking and defensive ability, he projects well as a centre going to the pro level. The question will be about his strength. Can he add enough muscle to his frame to be able to be effective down low in both ends of the ice? In terms of player comparison, Krebs style is similar to Matthew Barzal, however this is a style comparison only and not one based on skill or ability.

I want my "Getzlaf". Or "Kuznetsov".

***

And a Joker card, if he falls to our 2nd rounder:

RW Brett Leason
6'4, shoots Right

Leason is a classic late-bloomer. Improvements in his skating and the fact that he has finally gotten regular top-line ice time seem to suggest that this is not just an aberration but a real indication of his potential. Leason could develop into a second or third line winger in the NHL. His size and willingness to use it to play a physical game in all three zones will make him a coach’s favourite at any level. One advantage with Leason is that he will be eligible to play in the AHL next season and that he could be ready for NHL action quicker than the typical 18-year-old draftee. Leason’s game is reminiscent of Matthew Tkachuk. This is a stylistic comparison though and not one based on skill or ability.

All quotes from NHL Prospects Archives - Last Word on Hockey

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

All the rumours are pointing out that TOP4 will be Byram, Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte (in Alphabetical order, no reason to freak out).

So we will draft from Cozens/Dach/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs -group.

C/RW Dylan Cozens
6'3, shoots Right


C Kirby Dach
6'4, shoots Right


C Trevor Zegras
6'0, shoots Left


RW Vasili Podkolzin
6'1, shoots left


C/LW Peyton Krebs
5'11, shoots Left


I want my "Getzlaf". Or "Kuznetsov".

***

And a Joker card, if he falls to our 2nd rounder:

RW Brett Leason
6'4, shoots Right



All quotes from NHL Prospects Archives - Last Word on Hockey

I like Dach and Cozens the most out of what is left there, it also gives us a right handed center.

I am still hopeful if Knight is falling we will find a way to trade up and scoop him up at the end of the first fixing our goaltending long-term. With him and Larsson I am confident we have a top half of the league tender, one of them will work out.

I think we will have to figure out the addition to our D in free agency or trade, but we can really consolidate the foundation of this organization with a little luck in this draft. Hopefully Trouba or Karlsson are in the cards to fix the D and slot guys correctly there. We shall see, I really don't think we are super far off if things fall right here.

 

[Henkka]

Like, in my scenario of hopes, this would really look a deep youth/prospect system:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha (Top9 offence)
Athanasiou - "Dach" - Zadina (Top9 offence)
Rasmussen - Veleno - "Leason" (Top9 offence)
Hirose - Berggren - Svechnikov (Bottom sixers/Middle6)
Ehn - DeLaRose - G.Smith (4th liners)

The surplus of kids would be there, only thing to fix would be getting some extra centers. Trade some winger away, and let Yzerman sneak one young center from Tampa if he takes care about the Ryan Callahan caphit. Then the kid core of Offence would look extremely good.

And at Defence, we have...

DeKeyser - Hronek
McIsaac - Kaski
Cholowski - Bowey
Regula - Lindström

Larsson
Eliasson

We kind of have bigger pool than we need, and NOW, after the 2019 draft, it's time to start finding trade-partners in "potential for proven players" -trades or "quality for quantity" -trades (with teams in cap problems).

 

[Larkin2AA]

Like, in my scenario of hopes, this would really look a deep youth/prospect system:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha (Top9 offence)
Athanasiou - "Dach" - Zadina (Top9 offence)
Rasmussen - Veleno - "Leason" (Top9 offence)
Hirose - Berggren - Svechnikov (Bottom sixers/Middle6)
Ehn - DeLaRose - G.Smith (4th liners)

The surplus of kids would be there, only thing to fix would be getting some extra centers. Trade some winger away, and let Yzerman sneak one young center from Tampa if he takes care about the Ryan Callahan caphit. Then the kid core of Offence would look extremely good.

And at Defence, we have...

DeKeyser - Hronek
McIsaac - Kaski
Cholowski - Bowey
Regula - Lindström

Larsson
Eliasson

We kind of have bigger pool than we need, and NOW, after the 2019 draft, it's time to start finding trade-partners in "potential for proven players" -trades or "quality for quantity" -trades (with teams in cap problems).

Like the lineup, even if it is unproven. There is definitely a surplus of players that gives us the opportunity for "bigger" trades down the road to solidify our lineup.
I am wondering if Berggren is better at Wing than at C. Did he play center overseas?

 

[waltdetroit]

Like the lineup, even if it is unproven. There is definitely a surplus of players that gives us the opportunity for "bigger" trades down the road to solidify our lineup.
I am wondering if Berggren is better at Wing than at C. Did he play center overseas?

I think he can play either wing, don't remember that he's played center

 

[Hen Kolland]

All the rumours are pointing out that TOP4 will be Byram, Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte (in Alphabetical order, no reason to freak out).

So we will draft from Cozens/Dach/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs -group.

C/RW Dylan Cozens
6'3, shoots Right


C Kirby Dach
6'4, shoots Right


C Trevor Zegras
6'0, shoots Left


RW Vasili Podkolzin
6'1, shoots left


C/LW Peyton Krebs
5'11, shoots Left


I want my "Getzlaf". Or "Kuznetsov".

***

And a Joker card, if he falls to our 2nd rounder:

RW Brett Leason
6'4, shoots Right



All quotes from NHL Prospects Archives - Last Word on Hockey

I never really liked the Kesler comparison that LWOH chose for Cozens. Jeff Carter is a comparison that I found more reasonable. Good size, big shot, shoot first style of offense, but with really high end skating. Probably ends up throwing 250-300 shots on net in a season on average. In my limited viewings, I've never seen the top notch defensive aptitude to be a Selke candidate at any point, at least not a serious contender. Does that make me any more or less likely to pursue him? Not really, it may even help him, but I just think it goes to show how much comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Don't really see Zegras as a plus two way center, nor do I see Kuznetsov being a good fit for him.

Basically, I think we throw around this "good defensive" label a lot for draft eligible forward prospects, and very, very few of them are remotely close to being good two way players. Someone like Veleno, I believe he's legitimately a quality two way player off the bat; you can see in his play the amount of care he puts on being complete, but many players are being given this rubber stamp just because they are quite a better than the opposition and control the game.

 

[Frk It]

I know goalies have gotten less love in round 1 the last few year, but I would be pretty shocked if Knight didn’t go in the top 20-25 picks.

Listened to him on The Pipeline Show and he comes across as very bright and well spoken. I think teams are going to like him a lot.

Mads Sogaard is my realistic preference for a goalie in round 2 if we are to go that route.

 

[jkutswings]

Over the course of their respective NHL careers, I like the odds of Jack Hughes putting on some weight and adjusting to the physical demands of the league a lot better than the odds of Kaapo Kakko having a similar improvement to creativity and overall dynamism on offense.

Both players I'd like to have, but gimme Quinn's brother at #1 all day.

 

[Zetterbeer]

All the rumours are pointing out that TOP4 will be Byram, Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte (in Alphabetical order, no reason to freak out).

So we will draft from Cozens/Dach/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs -group.

C/RW Dylan Cozens
6'3, shoots Right


C Kirby Dach
6'4, shoots Right


C Trevor Zegras
6'0, shoots Left


RW Vasili Podkolzin
6'1, shoots left


C/LW Peyton Krebs
5'11, shoots Left


I want my "Getzlaf". Or "Kuznetsov".

***

And a Joker card, if he falls to our 2nd rounder:

RW Brett Leason
6'4, shoots Right



All quotes from NHL Prospects Archives - Last Word on Hockey

Dach>Zegras>Krebs>Pod>Cozens

 

[jkutswings]

I know goalies have gotten less love in round 1 the last few year, but I would be pretty shocked if Knight didn’t go in the top 20-25 picks.

Agreed, but he'd have to slide at least to 20 before I'd consider trading up for him. Ideally more like 25, but I just don't see him lasting that long, and the choice would likely be taken out of Detroit's hands.

 

[Henkka]

Listened to him on The Pipeline Show and he comes across as very bright and well spoken. I think teams are going to like him a lot.

Funny thing, but recently I've noticed that some kind of weird persons seem to become best goaltenders. Not "bright and well spoken". Tuukka Rask, Jordan Binnington, Matt Murray are this kind of guys. Hasek was one of a kind etc.

It's a weird position with wierd people. Well spoken guys will become probably good managers and coaches.

 

[Henkka]

I think he can play either wing, don't remember that he's played center

I just did put Berggren on center, even though he is a winger. Just shows how we are missing some extra kid centers. Of course, we could slot AA or Rasmussen there, but those look better on wing as the career prime.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Over the course of their respective NHL careers, I like the odds of Jack Hughes putting on some weight and adjusting to the physical demands of the league a lot better than the odds of Kaapo Kakko having a similar improvement to creativity and overall dynamism on offense.

Both players I'd like to have, but gimme Quinn's brother at #1 all day.

Fortunately, creativity is a lot less important than adjusting to the physical demands. You know who's game requires absolutely zero creativity? Ovechkin. You drop Ovechkin in the NHL with his physical traits and his shot and nothing else, he's still a 30 goal scorer. Kakko's entire game plays in the NHL right now, Hughes' game doesn't. Parts of his game will, but not all of it. His vision and his speed will be an immediate translation, but bigger, faster, stronger players than what he's been exposed to will make for a larger learning curve for Hughes than Kakko.

If you want me to shoot based on who is the most likely to be a guaranteed quality player in the NHL, I take Kakko. If you want me to pick based on who is most likely to be an elite player in the NHL, I take Hughes. At number one, I don't want just a quality player, I want the best player to come out of the draft, and as a result, you gotta bet on the upside of Hughes.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

From AVS fan , i agree with 6th, 54th and Svechnikov

From a Wings fan, no.

 

[Frk It]

Funny thing, but recently I've noticed that some kind of weird persons seem to become best goaltenders. Not "bright and well spoken". Tuukka Rask, Jordan Binnington, Matt Murray are this kind of guys. Hasek was one of a kind etc.

It's a weird position with wierd people. Well spoken guys will become probably good managers and coaches.

Historically yeah, goalies have been kind of the more introverted or different guys on the team.

But I think it will be an added bonus for someone like Knight that he is a good character guy, kind of like Carey Price in Montreal.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

From a Wings fan, no.

For Byram or Turcotte I wouldn't kill that. Of course I think this would basically be an acknowledgement by the Avs that they like Cozens and I would dare them to draft him there. Feeding back you can't trade behind us we will take him. That is a part of the game Yzerman needs to play.

I really want one of Turcotte/Byram/Dach.

Cozens and Krebs would be my next two.