Prospect Info: 2019 Draft Talk (Part Deux)

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Hockeyfannnn91

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I think he's right in there with about 10-15 other guys that should be available for our 2nd round picks.

It seems as though there are a lot of players with interesting upside in the 20-50 range. Some forwards I like in the 2nd are are Fagemo, Robertson, Afanasyev, Nikolayev, Spiridonov, Puistola, Legare, Firstov. For defenceman there aren't as many, but I like Korczak, Bjornfot, or Kokkonen; though neither list include players that could fall. For #35 specifically I think I'd target a faller from the end of the 1st, but any of Puistola, Afansyev, Fagemo, and Spiridonov would be picks I like at 35.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading one of our later 2nds back for another 3rd + another pick to be honest, say to Vegas for their two 3rds. There should still be a bunch of interesting players left at the start of the 3rd and the more of the lottery type players we can get the better. Players like Constantinou, Albert Johansson, Kim Nousiainen, Schmiemann or Vukojevic for defenceman and Serdyuk, Beaucage, Macelli, Mastrosimone, Sheshin, Cajkovic, Cody Morgan (he had a fantastic 2nd half with Flint), and of course my favorite reach for this years draft Kristian Tanus. Almost all are ranked 60+ but have numbers comparable to those of higher picks. Also, if we could get 1 of Dustin Wolf or Ilya Konovalov as our token goalies pick I'd be happy.

I'm not sure if it's just because I'm paying more attention to the later rounds this year but it seems like there are some undervalued, at least relative to their current rankings, players in this years draft. So long as we stick with our approach from 2018 I think we should come out of this draft with a couple of very good prospects.
Nice to see someone else like fagemo at 35, I think we stick with our 3 2nds

We have thrun we can grab,Helleson,bjornfot,knyazev And a few others at d , if anything I try and ship some bodies like helm,Daley on draft weekend and try and land another 3rd or 2 or just try and trade 2019’s 3rd for one of vegas’s 3rds if it’s doable and try and land another 3rd at 2020’s draft through trades later on
 
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DatsyukToZetterberg

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Nice to see someone else like fagemo at 35, I think we stick with our 3 2nds

We have thrun we can grab,Helleson,bjornfot,knyazev And a few others at d , if anything I try and ship some bodies like helm,Daley on draft weekend and try and land another 3rd or 2 or just try and trade 2019’s 3rd for one of vegas’s 3rds if it’s doable and try and land another 3rd at 2020’s draft through trades later on

It'd be great if we could trade some of our Veterans for more picks or even take on some "Dead Capspace" for assets if teams are looking to shed unwanted players. I just have my reservations about us getting any value for them and Holland taking on bad contracts doesn't seem to be in the cards.

When I first saw his stats and EU skater ranking I thought we'd be able to get him in the 3rd or 4th but the more I looked into his stats this year and even his superElit numbers last year the more I started to like him. He's probably the best overager in this years draft class and he hasn't received nearly enough love for his season. On a per game basis his 0.6 points per game, min gp of 10, as a U-19 scorer is the 5th best season since 2000-2001 and he is ahead of quite a few 1st round picks, guys such as Vrana, Bokk, Zibanejad, Backstrom, Andersson, Eriksson Ek, and a few others too. I don't think his level of production will mean he's going to be a star, but he's having the type of season you hope to get from an early or mid 1st and he isn't even really considered to be a 1st rounder.

Also, another interesting name for a later pick is Brayden Tracey. He had the 2nd highest point total among draft eligible players in the WHL and will likely win rookie of the year, yet he's ranked just 73rd by Central scouting and looks to be a 4th to 7th round pick on most lists. He did play with 2 100+ point scorers though he was 3rd on the team in points. Moose Jaw was also the definition of a 1 line team; they had 3F & 2D over a P/GP and only one other player was near a 0.8 P/GP. He did score extremely well in his midget season last year, 3rd in points and tied for 1st in P/GP, so I'm inclined to think he isn't just a passenger on that line. I think he'd be good value in the 3rd round and a great get in the 4th round if he falls there.
 

Athana see you later

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Nice to see someone else like fagemo at 35, I think we stick with our 3 2nds

We have thrun we can grab,Helleson,bjornfot,knyazev And a few others at d , if anything I try and ship some bodies like helm,Daley on draft weekend and try and land another 3rd or 2 or just try and trade 2019’s 3rd for one of vegas’s 3rds if it’s doable and try and land another 3rd at 2020’s draft through trades later on
Totally agree. The second seems like a great spot to take some shots at defensemen in this draft. Probably will be targeting two and grab someone who falls out of the first round with the other (could also be a defenseman, but there are some interesting Russians and centers that have talent who could slide)
 

Gniwder

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Helm's not going anywhere with his NTC and the fact hat his wife and Holland's wife are friends. Daley, Green, and Ericsson are all potential TDL bait next season, I don't see Holland trading them before then.

It's business as usual until Holland is gone.
 

waltdetroit

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1) I think it was Kevin Allen who pointed out that prospects are in much better condition and are overall more talented than those 5-10 years ago due to improved training, dietary regimes, etc. So 1st and 2nd round picks are worth more.

2) I am anxious about this draft. It's like going to the store and your mom allows you to get 1 item and even though you were first in line, she lets all of your brothers and sisters pick first.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

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Helm's not going anywhere with his NTC and the fact hat his wife and Holland's wife are friends. Daley, Green, and Ericsson are all potential TDL bait next season, I don't see Holland trading them before then.

It's business as usual until Holland is gone.

Helm's NTC was officially nullified when we missed the playoffs this year, he doesn't have one anymore. Not saying he will be shipped out, but he can be actively shopped to every team in the league. He is really the only guy that got in the is he as bad as Abdelkader conversation this year though so my guess is the phones will be pretty quiet on him this off-season. But we will see, his NTC is gone though.
 

Marky9er

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This is a little bit OT considering where our picks are, but Lavoie is absolutely feasting on the QMJHL in a Mantha fashion. 13 goals in 11 games. I bet he goes 15 to MTL.
 

jkutswings

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It's business as usual until Holland is gone.
You mean:

1) Letting the kids take over;
2) Selling at the deadline; and
3) Having another good draft?

I also look forward to a change in GM. And if the newfound cap space is used on overpaying secondary veterans, I'll be first in line for my torch and pitchfork. But overall the last 12-24 months have been a lot more positive than negative for rebuilding.
 

Hockeyfannnn91

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It'd be great if we could trade some of our Veterans for more picks or even take on some "Dead Capspace" for assets if teams are looking to shed unwanted players. I just have my reservations about us getting any value for them and Holland taking on bad contracts doesn't seem to be in the cards.

When I first saw his stats and EU skater ranking I thought we'd be able to get him in the 3rd or 4th but the more I looked into his stats this year and even his superElit numbers last year the more I started to like him. He's probably the best overager in this years draft class and he hasn't received nearly enough love for his season. On a per game basis his 0.6 points per game, min gp of 10, as a U-19 scorer is the 5th best season since 2000-2001 and he is ahead of quite a few 1st round picks, guys such as Vrana, Bokk, Zibanejad, Backstrom, Andersson, Eriksson Ek, and a few others too. I don't think his level of production will mean he's going to be a star, but he's having the type of season you hope to get from an early or mid 1st and he isn't even really considered to be a 1st rounder.

Also, another interesting name for a later pick is brayden Tracey. He had the 2nd highest point total among draft eligible players in the WHL and will likely win rookie of the year, yet he's ranked just 73rd by Central scouting and looks to be a 4th to 7th round pick on most lists. He did play with 2 100+ point scorers though he was 3rd on the team in points. Moose Jaw was also the definition of a 1 line team; they had 3F & 2D over a P/GP and only one other player was near a 0.8 P/GP. He did score extremely well in his midget season last year, 3rd in points and tied for 1st in P/GP, so I'm inclined to think he isn't just a passenger on that line. I think he'd be good value in the 3rd round and a great get in the 4th round if he falls there.

Well if he was f***en smart he would , only player worth even considering is Erik Karlsson and there’s almost no chance he comes , we shouldn’t be wasting cap space for the fun of it.

Now if we can get Ryan Callahan and land a 2nd + with the agreement he then gets flipped with us eating cap space and getting more assets back it’s somethings we should do. We ain’t winning anything next year and we shouldn’t just sign anyone so use that cap space and get picks to help rebuild this team a lot sooner

Ya I read up a lot of fagemo and seen videos and I like him a lot it’s the kinda players I wanna see us risking it for , I’m tired of going for the sure nhl player who becomes a bottom guy , we have enough of those and those types of players can be easily had. I’d rather we go for players who can be top guys and have just 1 out of 7 picks lets say turn out then have 4 of 7 but they’re all 4th line guys and 5-6 dmen

I’ll have to check up on Brayden Tracey haven’t really heard of him , I like to look around Europe as for some reason they keep getting drafted way later now and there’s always really good players in the nhl that come from Europe but teams are sticking more to American and Canadian kids now, I checked his stats quickly and pretty good and yet to be 18 I’ll have to see if I can find videos and such on him

I’d definetly look into trading Daley as much as possible if I were Holland and try and land a 3rd maybe use it to move up in the 2ns again if bjornfot drops at d

Some others I like

Puistola,tieksola,has,kokkonen,holmstrom,farinacci,Beecher and some others I know we got larsson but I hope we get one of the two Russian goalies just in case , gotta make sure we have a stud goalie for the future
 
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Hockeyfannnn91

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Helm's not going anywhere with his NTC and the fact hat his wife and Holland's wife are friends. Daley, Green, and Ericsson are all potential TDL bait next season, I don't see Holland trading them before then.

It's business as usual until Holland is gone.
We can trade him since we didn’t make the playoffs , it’s in the clause , if we don’t use that window to shop him I’ll be pissed
 

Hockeyfannnn91

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Helm's NTC was officially nullified when we missed the playoffs this year, he doesn't have one anymore. Not saying he will be shipped out, but he can be actively shopped to every team in the league. He is really the only guy that got in the is he as bad as Abdelkader conversation this year though so my guess is the phones will be pretty quiet on him this off-season. But we will see, his NTC is gone though.
I think he can be shipped , he’d be so much better on a contender at this stage than us, still had speed can kill penalties , ton of playoff experience I really do think teams would value him , if we eat a 1 mill so be eat but I think he has some value
 

jkutswings

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Now if we can get Ryan Callahan and land a 2nd + with the agreement he then gets flipped with us eating cap space and getting more assets back it’s somethings we should do. We ain’t winning anything next year and we shouldn’t just sign anyone so use that cap space and get picks to help rebuild this team a lot sooner.
Taking on a bad contract for assets is one thing. But if Callahan is such a dud that Tampa would pay to get rid of him, why would somebody else then pay Detroit to get him, even at half salary?
 

Hen Kolland

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Taking on a bad contract for assets is one thing. But if Callahan is such a dud that Tampa would pay to get rid of him, why would somebody else then pay Detroit to get him, even at half salary?

My only thought would be a team like Toronto could use some sandpaper in their roster. At 3 million, they might be able to work him into their cap structure as a bottom 6 guy who can at least answer the bell in the right situation.
 
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Hockeyfannnn91

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Taking on a bad contract for assets is one thing. But if Callahan is such a dud that Tampa would pay to get rid of him, why would somebody else then pay Detroit to get him, even at half salary?
Tampa needs to shed salary to sign point and if they wanna make other moves , Callahan makes 5.8 thats a big number

Not expecting us to get loads from Callahan if we ship him afterwards but if we get let’s say a 2nd and 6th from Tampa then ship him to a contending team like pens or whomever for a 3rd,4,or 5th then I’m looking at it as say the overall package

2nd,4th And 6th to eat up 2.8 cap space that’sthere doing nothing I’d do it in a heartbeat , best way to turn this team around ASAP is to have as many picks as possible and hit on them
 

Hockeyfannnn91

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My only thought would be a team like Toronto could use some sandpaper in their roster. At 3 million, they might be able to work him into their cap structure as a bottom 6 guy who can at least answer the bell in the right situation.
It’s a one year deal I think we’d find a contending team to take him on
 

jkutswings

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My only thought would be a team like Toronto could use some sandpaper in their roster. At 3 million, they might be able to work him into their cap structure as a bottom 6 guy who can at least answer the bell in the right situation.
And then add insult to injury by shaking Kapanen loose? I wish.

But in 52 games, Callahan went 7-10-17. And just turned 34. Sandpaper or not, if I'm a contender, I want nothing to do with him.
 

Hen Kolland

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And then add insult to injury by shaking Kapanen loose? I wish.

But in 52 games, Callahan went 7-10-17. Sandpaper or not, if I'm a contender, I want nothing to do with him.

Tell that to the team who just lost a quality top six offensive player in the playoffs because he was the target of Boston, and the only person who would respond to Boston.
 

jkutswings

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Tell that to the team who just lost a quality top six offensive player in the playoffs because he was the target of Boston, and the only person who would respond to Boston.
You can't hit what you can't catch. If Toronto had actually been playing their game instead of losing their minds, this might never have happened to begin with.

If Toronto is pillow soft, then using what little cap space they have on a discounted Callahan isn't fixing anything. They either make significant changes to be harder to play against, or they find a way to utilize their current strengths much better.
 
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firestarter

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My wishlist, hope we go D-F-D-F-G, or reverse if byram isn't available at #6
1st
byram/turcotte/cozens/dach

2nd #35
heinola/kokkonen/korczak or if they drop suzuki/poulin/robertson/leason/ or if none of them available tracey/beaucage/legare

2nd#57-58
one of spence/bergeron/warren + one of cajkovic/serdyuk/fagemo/puistola/beckman/keppen/simoneau/dorofeyev/newkirk/rees
#66
wolf/alexandrov/mackay/knyazev/abramov/morgan
 

Gniwder

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You mean:

1) Letting the kids take over;
2) Selling at the deadline; and
3) Having another good draft?

I also look forward to a change in GM. And if the newfound cap space is used on overpaying secondary veterans, I'll be first in line for my torch and pitchfork. But overall the last 12-24 months have been a lot more positive than negative for rebuilding.
1) He didn't let the kids play, he was forced to by injuries. If not for the injuries, we would have watched Abby, Nielson, Vanek, Ericsson, and Daley close out the season.
2) Both trades were good trades, but he could have sold off more. That's how teams tank. WIll give him credit for getting value out of expiring contracts, and he needs to do the same next year.
3) I liked the 2016 and 2018 draft picks, but he hasn't done anything spectacular draft wise. It's common for one or two picks to make the team from each draft, and that's where we're at. 2016 was a complete bust, 2014 was as well except for Larkin, 2010, 2011, 2012 were all busts as well.

Overall he's done a crap job, and I won't change my mind unless he sends Abby to GR and let's Blashill play Helm on the 4th line where he belongs. With or without an NTC, Helm won't get traded, but he should be playing on a line suitable to his level.
 

DatsyukToZetterberg

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My wishlist, hope we go D-F-D-F-G, or reverse if byram isn't available at #6
1st
byram/turcotte/cozens/dach

2nd #35
heinola/kokkonen/korczak or if they drop suzuki/poulin/robertson/leason/ or if none of them available tracey/beaucage/legare

2nd#57-58
one of spence/bergeron/warren + one of cajkovic/serdyuk/fagemo/puistola/beckman/keppen/simoneau/dorofeyev/newkirk/rees
#66
wolf/alexandrov/mackay/knyazev/abramov/morgan

We've got a lot of similar players that we like. I don't think Dorofeyev or Fagemo will be there at 57/58, Dorofeyev especially as I think he could get top 15. I think my ideal picks would be something like this, I'm only select players that are ranked ahead of where we pick:

#6: Turcotte/Byram/Dach
#35: Famego/Spiridonov/Robertson/Bjornfot
#57: Tracey/Kokkonen/Puistola/Mastrosimone
#58: Tracey/Kokkonen/Puistola/Mastrosimone
#66: Beaucage/Cajkovic/Serdyuk/Constantinou

They're ordered in who I would want to select first. There are just so many different possible selections and there isn't much that separates them. I'd like us to target players with the best chance at becoming contributing NHL players and not just safe "replacement" level players.

1) He didn't let the kids play, he was forced to by injuries. If not for the injuries, we would have watched Abby, Nielson, Vanek, Ericsson, and Daley close out the season.
2) Both trades were good trades, but he could have sold off more. That's how teams tank. WIll give him credit for getting value out of expiring contracts, and he needs to do the same next year.
3) I liked the 2016 and 2018 draft picks, but he hasn't done anything spectacular draft wise. It's common for one or two picks to make the team from each draft, and that's where we're at. 2016 was a complete bust, 2014 was as well except for Larkin, 2010, 2011, 2012 were all busts as well.

Overall he's done a crap job, and I won't change my mind unless he sends Abby to GR and let's Blashill play Helm on the 4th line where he belongs. With or without an NTC, Helm won't get traded, but he should be playing on a line suitable to his level.

I don't think this is the right thread to debate what Holland has or hasn't done, but Holland's comments both last offseason and this season seem to indicate that he would have allowed the youth movement to continue regardless of injuries. He has signed veterans in the past to the detriment of younger players and not allowed them to properly claim spots but that wasn't the case this season. If Zadina was truly ready they would have had him on the team this season and they even kept Rasmussen up for the year. Yes, he did sign Vanek last offseason, but you still need to have NHL caliber players in your lineup on a nightly basis.

I'm not sure you can call any draft at this point a "bust", though I have called 2017 a bust in the past I'm mostly just upset with the methodology behind our picks in that years draft. 2014 will liklely give us Larkin, it also had Holmstrom who I still think could carve out a top 9 role if he fixes his skating issues; 2015 we had Svech, who projects as a top 9 guy still, and Ville Saarijarvi; 2016 has given us Cholowski, Hronek, Smith, and Larsson; 2017 is pretty much just Rasmussen, Lindstrom, and Petruzelli; and 2018 is too early to judge. So while you're correct in that the drafts haven't produced many players they were't devoid of talent, and given that only about 22% of players drafted will play greater than 160 NHL games those drafts don't appear to be too bad.
 

jkutswings

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Robertson moved up to 17th NA skater, I guess you guys aren't the only one keen on him

Probably won't be there in the second round....
He probably gets taken around 25th overall. Should be interesting to see who is falling around there, and whether any teams are moving up to get anybody.
 
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