2019 Draft Prospects: the best of

[Hen Kolland]

If you watch the shift by shift clip for Cozens, you'll notice he's somewhat of a slow skater too, which is odd given that people say speed is one of his strengths. I feel like both Cozens and Dach have similar skating styles, but Dach is more engaged in the play and is more creative and noticeable with the puck. He does not skate like our fast players, but I see his skating skill somewhere along the lines of Mantha.

I think Mantha's top speed is actually pretty damn good, he just rarely uses it. This is one of my favorite clips from Mantha and Athanasiou.



If you have seen Dach skate like that, then there is no problem at all

 

[PullHard]

I'm extremely partial to Dach, you can see his intelligence and confidence with the way he passes and shoots the puck

A few examples of overpassing in that YT video but in general you get the sense just in those few clips of his spatial awareness on the ice - he will be a really good player in the NHL IMO

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If you watch the shift by shift clip for Cozens, you'll notice he's somewhat of a slow skater too, which is odd given that people say speed is one of his strengths. I feel like both Cozens and Dach have similar skating styles, but Dach is more engaged in the play and is more creative and noticeable with the puck. He does not skate like our fast players, but I see his skating skill somewhere along the lines of Mantha.

If you watch the Hlinka video, I think you will no longer believe Cozens is slow.

I mean, Cozens was #1 #2 at the top prospects game on-ice testing. If that's not speed, I don't know what is. The kid is a helluva athlete at like 6'3 180 lbs soaking wet.

Edit: this is what I'm referring to: OHL’s Top Prospects Participate in Sport Testing Combine – Ontario Hockey League

30M Forward Skate:
1 – Brett Leason (Prince Albert Raiders)
2 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
3 – Connor McMichael (London Knights)

Reaction:
1 – Vladislav Kolyachonok (Flint Firebirds)
2 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
3 – Artemi Kniazev (Chicoutimi Sagueneens)

Reaction with Puck:
1 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
2 – Bowen Byram (Vancouver Giants)
3 – Jakob Pelletier (Moncton Wildcats)

Weave Agility:
1 – Brett Leason (Prince Albert Raiders)
2 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
3 – Ryan Suzuki (Barrie Colts)

Weave Agility with Puck:
1 – Brett Leason (Prince Albert Raiders)
2 – Arthur Kaliyev (Hamilton Bulldogs)
3 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)

Transition Agility with Puck:
1 – Vladislav Kolyachonok (Flint Firebirds)
2 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
3 – Philip Tomasino (Niagara IceDogs)

Bonus off-ice tests:

Broad Jump:
1 – Hunter Jones (Peterborough Petes)
2 –Vladislav Kolyachonok (Flint Firebirds)
3 – Samuel Bolduc (Blainville-Boisbriand Armada)
3 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)

Grip Left:
1 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
2 – Samuel Bolduc (Blainville-Boisbriand Armada)
3 – Jake Lee (Seattle Thunderbirds)

Grip Right:
1 – Dylan Cozens (Lethbridge Hurricanes)
2 – Hunter Jones (Peterborough Petes)
3 – Kaedan Korczak (Kelowna Rockets)

 

[SuperScript29]

I think Mantha's top speed is actually pretty damn good, he just rarely uses it. This is one of my favorite clips from Mantha and Athanasiou.



If you have seen Dach skate like that, then there is no problem at all

He may not be as fast, but he's not bad:

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Here's Cozens shift by shift, I hope we steer away from him. If we're going that route, Dach is a much better pick:

I was trying to find a Cozens shift by shift that I liked, and I just... couldn't, really. I don't like the way Lethbridge plays at all, so my take is that Lethbridge's total inability to move the puck/total lack of organization on-ice is holding Cozens back. And my proof is that in all 5 games at the Hlinka Gretzky, Cozens looked fantastic, especially in the areas he's typically criticized in (hands, passing ability, etc). Is that rock solid? No, it's definitely not. But that's my take on it. I think we'll get a better look at the U-18s.

I think a similar thing is true of Krebs, who has just had such a difficult year. It's tough to have a good shift-by-shift if your team never has the puck. But the Hlinka tourney showed us that when Krebs isn't in such a terrible environment, he's a fantastic player.

 

[SuperScript29]

I was trying to find a Cozens shift by shift that I liked, and I just... couldn't, really. I don't like the way Lethbridge plays at all, so my take is that Lethbridge's total inability to move the puck/total lack of organization on-ice is holding Cozens back. And my proof is that in all 5 games at the Hlinka Gretzky, Cozens looked fantastic, especially in the areas he's typically criticized in (hands, passing ability, etc).

The problem with those highlight videos is that they show the good plays of the prospect, the shift by shift seems better because it gives you the bigger picture of how the prospect plays across the entire game, not just when they're scoring.
I have no doubt that Cozens is a good hockey player, but if you watch the shift by shift you'll notice that when he's not scoring, he's floating quite a bit, sort of like Mantha.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The problem with those highlight videos is that they show the good plays of the prospect, the shift by shift seems better because it gives you the bigger picture of how the prospect plays across the entire game, not just when they're scoring.
I have no doubt that Cozens is a good hockey player, but if you watch the shift by shift you'll notice that when he's not scoring, he's floating quite a bit, sort of like Mantha.

I should mention, though, that I went through and watched all 5 Hlinka games in their entirety. I really liked what I saw from Cozens.

 

[Hen Kolland]

The problem with those highlight videos is that they show the good plays of the prospect, the shift by shift seems better because it gives you the bigger picture of how the prospect plays across the entire game, not just when they're scoring.
I have no doubt that Cozens is a good hockey player, but if you watch the shift by shift you'll notice that when he's not scoring, he's floating quite a bit, sort of like Mantha.

I think both of them are necessary. Someone like Krebs I find to have a very bland, unimpressive highlight tape, but his game doesn't really lend itself to generating highlight reel goals. He impacts the game shift over shift. But at the same time, the things that make Dach look like a high level players are more easily "communicated" through a highlight video. I want to see every single player under both lenses of this microscope because I'm looking for the best blend of talent that is impactful shift over shift, but can also be a complete game changer in any given moment.

Edit: "Necessary" meaning necessary for us peasants consuming this as prep for understanding what our team is about to bring into the organization. Obviously the scouts and management are seeing so much that we will never see, and probably don't want to endure.

 

[SuperScript29]

I think both of them are necessary. Someone like Krebs I find to have a very bland, unimpressive highlight tape, but his game doesn't really lend itself to generating highlight reel goals. He impacts the game shift over shift. But at the same time, the things that make Dach look like a high level players are more easily "communicated" through a highlight video. I want to see every single player under both lenses of this microscope because I'm looking for the best blend of talent that is impactful shift over shift, but can also be a complete game changer in any given moment.

When you're drafting a player this high in the draft, skill and IQ are very important factors. You're correct, someone like Krebs does not come across like an elite talent, most of his success is through hard work. But this is the exact reason why you don't draft a player like Krebs in the top-10. He's a helluva player if you're looking for the next Darren Helm.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I want to remind everybody that this thread is for pumping prospects up, not tearing them down. We can make a separate thread for that, if you want.

 

[DetroitRed]

This is a side-by-side comparison of Boldy, Turcotte and Zegras from the 5 teams they've been a part of together since 2017, showing points-per-game (P/G) and penalty minutes-per-game (PIM/G). At the end of the list, I averaged each area out for each player.

USNTDP Jrs, USHL '17-18

Boldy
P/G: 1.02
PIM/G: .41

Turcotte
P/G: 1.03
PIM/G: .45

Zegras
P/G: 1.03
PIM/G: 1.03

USDP U17, '17-18

Boldy
P/G: 1.24
PIM/G: .49

Turcotte
P/G: 1.20
PIM/G: .35

Zegras
P/G: 1.05
PIM/G: .75

WHC 17, U17

Boldy
P/G: 1.5
PIM/G: .33

Turcotte
P/G: 1
PIM/G: .33

Zegras
P/G: 1
PIM/G: .66

USNTDP Jrs, USHL, '18-19

Boldy
P/G: 1.53
PIM/G: .57

Turcotte
P/G: 2.12
PIM/G: .87

Zegras
P/G: 1.48
PIM/G: 1.25

USDP U18, '18-19

Boldy
P/G: 1.25
PIM/G: .50

Turcotte
P/G: 1.76
PIM/G: 1.76

Zegras
P/G: 1.44
PIM/G: 1.70

The averges from all of the above...

Boldy
P/G: 1.30
PIM/G: .46

Turcotte
P/G: 1.42
PIM/G: .75

Zegras
P/G: 1.20
PIM/G: 1.07

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If you watch the shift by shift clip for Cozens, you'll notice he's somewhat of a slow skater too, which is odd given that people say speed is one of his strengths. I feel like both Cozens and Dach have similar skating styles, but Dach is more engaged in the play and is more creative and noticeable with the puck. He does not skate like our fast players, but I see his skating skill somewhere along the lines of Mantha.

Cozens and Dach have nothing in common in terms of their skating styles. Cozens is the superior skater in every respect. If you think that Dach is constantly engaged in the play you need to watch more regular season action from him. If we take Dach I will promise you two things: (i) fans will be upset when they see him trailing the play and refusing to engage without the puck. He will invariably be compared to Mantha and accused of being a floater, and (ii) people will complain about how slow his feet are. I agree that his skating isn't awful, but he still has a ton of work to do in that department.

I have a very love-hate relationship with Dach. I think he is very skilled with the puck shows a ton of intelligence in the offensive zone and is a good compliment to what we have in the organization. I have serious reservations, however, about his motor and whether he really does project as a center in the pro game. The middle is very demanding from a skating perspective. It is really hard to play if you aren't willing to stop your feet and pivot to defend. He does not strike me as a good small space skater. Stylistically I much prefer the Turcotte, Cozens and Krebs (and even Zegras).

He is more than reasonable at 6, but I do prefer others.

 

[izlez]

This is a side-by-side comparison of Boldy, Turcotte and Zegras from the 5 teams they've been a part of together since 2017, showing points-per-game (P/G) and penalty minutes-per-game (PIM/G). At the end of the list, I averaged each area out for each player.

USNTDP Jrs, USHL '17-18

Boldy
P/G: 1.02
PIM/G: .41

Turcotte
P/G: 1.03
PIM/G: .45

Zegras
P/G: 1.03
PIM/G: 1.03

USDP U17, '17-18

Boldy
P/G: 1.24
PIM/G: .49

Turcotte
P/G: 1.20
PIM/G: .35

Zegras
P/G: 1.05
PIM/G: .75

WHC 17, U17

Boldy
P/G: 1.5
PIM/G: .33

Turcotte
P/G: 1
PIM/G: .33

Zegras
P/G: 1
PIM/G: .66

USNTDP Jrs, USHL, '18-19

Boldy
P/G: 1.53
PIM/G: .57

Turcotte
P/G: 2.12
PIM/G: .87

Zegras
P/G: 1.48
PIM/G: 1.25

USDP U18, '18-19

Boldy
P/G: 1.25
PIM/G: .50

Turcotte
P/G: 1.76
PIM/G: 1.76

Zegras
P/G: 1.44
PIM/G: 1.70

The averges from all of the above...

Boldy
P/G: 1.30
PIM/G: .46

Turcotte
P/G: 1.42
PIM/G: .75

Zegras
P/G: 1.20
PIM/G: 1.07

I asked this in another thread, but does anyone have points/60 stats for the NTDP team? With a team so stacked, I'm very interested what that shows (and for example, what it showed about Larkin playing behind Eichel)

 

[DetroitRed]

I asked this in another thread, but does anyone have points/60 stats for the NTDP team? With a team so stacked, I'm very interested what that shows (and for example, what it showed about Larkin playing behind Eichel)

I don't. I averaged the above out myself.

 

[Lil Bert]

I'm a big fan of Zegras. Seems to see the ice well and has the skills to execute. I would rate him above most of the WHL guys. Hoping for him at #6.

 

[DetroitRed]

This is covering USNTDP Jrs USHL '17-18, USDP U17 '17-18, WHC '17 U17, USNTDP Jrs USHL '18-19, and USDP U18 '18-19, the five teams these three guys were a part of together. It's just averaged over 60 games.

Boldy
P/60g: 78
PIM/60g: 27.6

Turcotte
P/60g: 85.2
PIM/60g: 45

Zegras
P/60g: 72
PIM/60g: 64.2

My understanding is that Zegras and Jack Hughes were together on the same line often, whereas Boldy and Turcotte were usually on a different line together.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Someone above wanted the points-per-60 games for Turcotte, Boldy and Zegras. That's pretty easy to work out since we already have their averages. I'll give you the penalty minutes-per-60 games too.

This is covering USNTDP Jrs USHL '17-18, USDP U17 '17-18, WHC '17 U17, USNTDP Jrs USHL '18-19, and USDP U18 '18-19, the five teams these three guys were a part of together.

Boldy
P/60: 78
PIM/60: 27.6

Turcotte
P/60: 85.2
PIM/60: 45

Zegras
P/60: 72
PIM/60: 64.2

My understanding is that Zegras and Jack Hughes were together on the same line often, whereas Boldy and Turcotte were usually on a different line together.

I’d be interested to see these isolated by year.

 

[DetroitRed]

I’d be interested to see these isolated by year.

It's up above! Just scroll up.

Edit: Sorry. By year!

 

[DetroitRed]

This is covering USNTDP Jrs USHL '17-18, USDP U17 '17-18, WHC '17 U17, USNTDP Jrs USHL '18-19, and USDP U18 '18-19, the five teams Boldy, Turcotte and Zegras were a part of together. This is also broken up by year and shows points-per game, points-per-60 games, penalty minutes-per-game, and penalty minutes-per-60 games.

2017-18

Boldy
P/G: 1.25
P/60g: 75
PIM/G: .41
PIM/60g: 24.6

Turcotte
P/G: 1.07
P/60g: 64.2
PIM/G: .37
PIM/60g: 22.2

Zegras
P/G 1.02
P/60g: 61.2
PIM/G: .81
PIM/60g: 48.6

2018-19

Boldy
P/G: 1.39
P/60g: 83.4
PIM/G: .53
PIM/60g: 31.8

Turcotte
P/G: 1.94
P/60g: 116.4
PIM/G: 1.31
PIM/60g: 78.6

Zegras
P/G: 1.46
P/60g: 87.6
PIM/G: 1.47
PIM/60g: 88.2

 

[Frk It]

How in the world are you figuring P/60 and TOI for the U18 guys...?

 

[DetroitRed]

How in the world are you figuring P/60 and TOI for the U18 guys...?

I am not working out TOI at all. I'm just working out their per-game averages, and then showing what those averages would amount to over 60 games. Then we broke it up by year. It's in the post descriptions.

 

[Frk It]

I am not working out TOI at all. I'm just working out their per-game averages, and then showing what those averages would amount to over 60 games. Then we broke it up by year. It's in the post descriptions.

Oh, I might label it as pts/60gp or something then since p/60 is pretty synonymous with points per 60 minutes played.

(((Wish we had those stats for junior aged players)))

 

[DetroitRed]

Oh, I might label it as pts/60gp or something then since p/60 is pretty synonymous with points per 60 minutes played.

(((Wish we had those stats for junior aged players)))

I redid it as P/60g and PIM/60g. Yeah, I wish I had the breakdown for who played how many minutes with who.

 

[jkutswings]

Good work! Nice to see the footage and data rolling in!

 

[NickH8]

Good work! Nice to see the footage and data rolling in!

The most productive thread on this goddamn board