2019 Draft Discussion

[King'sPawn]

Sucks teams like the oilers had to bring about the draft lottery for being so ****ty for so long. Even if we finish dead last, there’s about a 82 percent chance that we don’t get the #1 pick...****ing lame

I actually prefer it that way. And prefer that the #2 pick isn't guaranteed for the worst team.

Penguins got Malkin in 2004 after Washington won and got Ovechkin. They got him one year before winning the lottery for Crosby.

I wouldn't want to radicalize it so much that it's a lottery from 1-15, but I do like that the first three picks are a lottery, and that it's not easy for a #1 pick. It forces good managers to have to do more than count on the lottery/guaranteed pick to make them look good.

 

[King'sPawn]

How can anyone look at the list KP provided above and honestly say with a straight face this team is drafting well?

I’m not writing off any of the recently drafted guys from 2016 and on, but for a very long stretch, this has not been an excellent drafting team. To make that claim now is ridiculous.

Now if Clague, Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, Kupari, etc. all blow us away as productive talent, then we can all acknowledge that they’re back to being an excellent drafting team, but to claim what they’ve done from 2011 and on as excellent is being disingenuous and completely full of ****. And that’s not cherry picking. Those are ****ing facts.

My post was not about the drafting. I say time and time again I'm not so worried about the scouting department. I'm worried about what happens after the Kings draft, and what they do with the talent.

Hughes is a consensus top pick. I'm sure the scouts see Hughes and can determine quality talent when it's in front of them.

I'm just concerned if they are going to develop him into a 3rd line energy player after he comes into the system. Or a decent 2nd line forward. I don't know if they can develop top end talent, because aside from Kopitar, they have not developed a high end first line player. Players like Simmonds and Schenn are great players, but we saw them grow into top players in organizations after the Kings started them out as 2nd/3rd line players.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lombardi used to also be high on overdeveloping prospects, but that’s a thing of the past. More and more players under 23 are stepping in and providing an impact. Except on the Kings. The oldest team in the league. That’s concerning.

 

[KopitarFAN]

My post was not about the drafting. I say time and time again I'm not so worried about the scouting department. I'm worried about what happens after the Kings draft, and what they do with the talent.

Hughes is a consensus top pick. I'm sure the scouts see Hughes and can determine quality talent when it's in front of them.

I'm just concerned if they are going to develop him into a 3rd line energy player after he comes into the system. Or a decent 2nd line forward. I don't know if they can develop top end talent, because aside from Kopitar, they have not developed a high end first line player. Players like Simmonds and Schenn are great players, but we saw them grow into top players in organizations after the Kings started them out as 2nd/3rd line players.

To be fair, this is the first time we will see wholesale coaching changes (except Bill Ranford and Dusty Imoo, I hope) in almost 10 years. Stevens was here the whole time, with Murray and Sutter, obviously they had turnover among assistants, but not a ton. Hopefully this will be a change in philosophy as much as a change in voice.

I realize your post was about scouting and development, but these things go hand in hand, it's just that we see the faces of one and not the other.

 

[damacles1156]

I am confident in the Kings ability to draft. They have yet to shown the ability to develop top end talent to play in the NHL.

I know it's not EASY to develop those sorts of talent, but the drop off shouldn't be:
Kopitar




Rest of the forwards
and
Doughty




Rest of the defense.

It takes Kopitar playing with one shoulder for there to be someone else to lead the team in scoring, and that was Carter, who also was not drafted/developed by the Kings.

The best forward the Kings have drafted and developed since they started fighting for the playoffs (2010 and later) is Tyler Toffoli. Here's the full list of best forwards they have drafted, developed, and have played at least an NHL game, sorted by career high in points in one season:
Tyler Toffoli (53)
Tanner Pearson (44)
Adrian Kempe (37)
Jordan Weal (21)
Nick Shore (17)
Andy Andreoff (10)
Mike Amadio (8)
Valentin Zykov (7)
Jonny Brodzinski (6)
Tomas Hyka (4)
Austin Wagner (4)
Michael Mersch (3)
Hudson Fasching (2)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan (1)
Justin Auger (0)

This is it. These are the forwards the Kings have drafted and spent at least some time developing in their system since 2010, and these are the ones who have played at least 1 NHL game. I know some of these numbers may seem unfair, considering both Wagner and JAD are rookies, but the best forward they have developed topped out as a good second liner.

Here are the defensemen the Kings have drafted + spent some time developing since 2010, and have played at least one NHL game. I'll rank them by games played since I think it's more unfair to judge defensemen by points scored:
Colin Miller (218)
Derek Forbort (205)
Kevin Gravel (86)
Paul LaDue (45)
Erik Cernak (15)
Roland McKeown (10)

Even if you use the "quick metrics" of 100 games played, the Kings have drafted + developed two defensemen since 2010 who have met that "NHLer" criteria. The best one we have, based on games played, isn't even on the Kings anymore.

The bottom line is, we can say the Kings haven't had good picks all we want. I get it's a constraint, and I think it's a fair defense for a while. But when the best forward you've drafted and developed in 8 years has topped out at 53 points, and the best defenseman who has stayed with the Kings can't be counted on to anchor his own pairing, I don't have a lot of faith that our staff knows how to help the players grow. Iafallo was 23 when he joined the Kings, so he did a lot of his own growing. Maybe Matt Luff, JAD, or Vilardi can show the Kings can develop a top line player at a younger age? I'm not sure. So far, though, it's still a very bad ratio that will take more evidence to convince me otherwise.

I'm just honestly worried, even if the Kings do draft Jack Hughes, Kaapo Kakko, or Kirby Dach... is anyone genuinely confident in his ability, long term, to put up consistent first line or very good second line numbers?

Kings should Stop putting players like Kempe in the NHL too soon. LaDue/Amadio/Wagner/Kempe I think these guys games are suffering greatly due to lack of AHL games were you can make mistakes and grow your game.If it takes three FULL seasons in the AHL to get a kid consistent, that's what it takes.

Really glad that so far Clague has not been sucked into this dumpster fire in the NHL.

The Kings need to develop young prospects the correct way, obviously some like Kupari may accelerate the process but that is rare(See Kopitar/Doughty) Just my opinion.

 

[damacles1156]

TO the firs tboldfaced, like I said, your usual dishonest analysis by cherry picking.

To the second, pretending that those guys 'didn't get results' when one has the WCF goal scoring record, one has scored key stanley cup playoff goals from a depth role as a 7th round pick, and one literally has WCF game 7 OT and SCF winning OT goals is...lmao. Ok.

If LaDue doesn't take, so be it. Won't be the first time I was wrong about a guy. Difference is I can admit that.




Doesn't matter how much of your homework people do for you, you have no idea what to do with the information.

Because when you contextualize it with what other teams have done in similar amounts of time with even BETTER picks in terms of quantity AND quality--and the Kings still have better results than the majority of the NHL--it IS excellent scouting and drafting. But I don't need to show you that again. I've done it no less than three times. You just like to be lazy and pretend others' arguments stand in for yours since you have nothing at all to lean on here.

Edit: and don't get me wrong I'm not 'defending' the organization here, really--i'm with KP AND you that the lack of offensive talent in that time is an issue/concern. I'm just not ready to trash the staff for it since they repeatedly and reliably executed on a very clear vision.

Lombardi lost sight of the vision in his last years, the current management team so far has no vision. It shows in the Kings and Reigns sloppy play all over the ice.

 

[damacles1156]

When it comes to drafting it can turn around quickly provided the team develops properly.

Look at Kupari, that kid is putting up Patrik Laine production in a mens league. That pick alone could solve a long needed elite winger/Center the Kings have desperately needed.

 

[SuperAlmeida]

Kakko with two goals for TPS today. He played C not RW.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings given a C- with the only player named who may be able to stick in the NHL being Zykov. That is going to look worse when Zykov fails to forge an NHL career. Brodzinski is looking like a long shot and Hudson Fasching is a minor leaguer.

 

[regulate]

Kings given a C- with the only player named who may be able to stick in the NHL being Zykov. That is going to look worse when Zykov fails to forge an NHL career. Brodzinski is looking like a long shot and Hudson Fasching is a minor leaguer.

I like that Corey goes back 5 years, which is a fair number to grade, but the King's C- really isn't that relevant for 2013 without a first round pick and an pretty thin draft overall outside of the top ten. Plenty of 2nd rounders in there in the same boat as Zykov, many with zero NHL games.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Stupid ass Bartosak. And really would have liked to see what Brodzinski could have done this year too.

 

[King'sPawn]

Stupid ass Bartosak. And really would have liked to see what Brodzinski could have done this year too.

I really wasn't expecting much out of Brodzinski.

But yeah, Bartosak's a dumbass.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Craig Button's new list for 2019.

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-kakko-hughes-set-for-world-junior-clash-1.1225187

Looks like Kupari will be on Finland’s roster for the WJC. Maybe we’ll see him centering Kakko and lining up against Vilardi and JAD.

Kupari also has more points than Kakko, currently in the Finnish pro league, which is good to see since he’s a year older.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Turcotte is back from his injury tonight.

 

[AlphaBravo]

It would be sick if we can land Kakko at the draft. Apparently, Kupari and Kakko are going to be on the same line for team Finland.

 

[YP44]

It would be sick if we can land Kakko at the draft. Apparently, Kupari and Kakko are going to be on the same line for team Finland.

agreed

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings may finally get some good Finnishers?

 

[AlphaBravo]

Vilardi's injury history really puts a wrench in our new roster. If he was healthy (and assuming we land Kakko), we could roll a Vilard/JAD, and Kupari/Kakko second and third lines. That would be an amazing infusion of youth. Sprinkle in a veteran first line of Kopitar/Brown/Kovy, and add Kempe/Iaffallo to the 2nd and third lines, and we look pretty good. We would need to then draft well on defense in 2019 and 2020.

 

[YP44]

Vilardi's injury history really puts a wrench in our new roster. If he was healthy (and assuming we land Kakko), we could roll a Vilard/JAD, and Kupari/Kakko second and third lines. That would be an amazing infusion of youth. Sprinkle in a veteran first line of Kopitar/Brown/Kovy, and add Kempe/Iaffallo to the 2nd and third lines, and we look pretty good. We would need to then draft well on defense in 2019 and 2020.

or get Defensive prospects in moves from Carter, Muzzin, Martinez.

I agree with the bolded and is why I think this could hopefully be a one year blip.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Worst case scenario, if they drop to 3rd to 5th, and the lottery results in a drop to say 7th, take Byram, we know they need a defenseman.

 

[YP44]

Is Cozens playing the World Juniors?

 

[Brodeur]

Is Cozens playing the World Juniors?

Cozens wasn't invited to Canada's selection camp. Typically they don't have many draft eligible Canadian guys in the mix for the WJC as they tend to lean on 19 year olds. Lafreniere (projected 2020 1st overall pick) and Raphael Lavoie (late 2000 birthday, missed last year's draft by 10 days) were the only first time draft eligibles invited to their camp. Lavoie was cut and Lafreniere is on the bubble and might be dependent on Vilardi/Anderson-Dolan's outlooks.

At least for draft eligibles, the big tournament is the U18s in April.

 

[KopitarFAN]

A number of potential Top 10 picks weren't invited for Canada and others, though some were injury related.
Among them:

Kirby Dach
Vasili Podkolzin
Alex Newhook
Alex Turcotte (injury)
Bowen Byram
Peyton Krebs

I realize the goal is to win, not showcase that year draftees, USA and others seem more app to do that in recent years, and not just with the Seth Jones, Auston Mathews, Jack Eichel etc.

 

[King'sPawn]

Most of the top draft eligibles have participated in the Hlinka Gretzky tournament a few months ago.

There's also the WJA showcase from earlier this month.

Then I believe the U18s which happen in April-ish?

Plenty of tournaments these draft eligibles have against their peers

 

[Brodeur]

I realize the goal is to win, not showcase that year draftees, USA and others seem more app to do that in recent years, and not just with the Seth Jones, Auston Mathews, Jack Eichel etc.

Those were special guys for their draft years too. If Canada had a McDavid type talent this year, he'd be in the mix. As it is, Lafreniere (2020 eligible) made the squad due to Vilardi not being healthy. Jones/Matthews/Eichel all coincidentally were late birthdays and were expected to be in the NHL the following year. In particular Jones' year was fun since he got to face off against Nathan MacKinnon at the WJC and then later in the Memorial Cup. Jones helped Team USA to a Gold, but MacKinnon's squad would top Jones in the Memorial Cup Final.