2019 Copa America

Panteras

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Sep 14, 2009
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When the decline of a football country is in part due to security issues, once those are removed as they now largely are, it definitely matters. They will inevitably have more quality to choose from.

It defenitly matters, as in security issues matter on the quality of the NT team?
If so, you realize the height of Colombian drug cartel and and paramilitary issues where during Colombia's first Golden Generation of Highita/Valderram and their only major title, the 90's-early 2000's.

Or it defenitly matters , as in size of a country correlates to security issues or vice-versa?
Because that would be a real head scratcher as obviously if you follow the news size of country and political instability have no correlation.

So again, sorry I'm failing to see the point you're trying to make?
 
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Albatros

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not sure what your point is? You had previously said up to now Colombia had been one of the worst teams in SA and never had any success. So I just pointed out that Colombia actually had a Golden Generation before this one and that they actually have had at least one major success. So again, sorry just not sure what's the point you're tyring to put forth...?

my original point that you had quoted was that countries go through generational droughts, and that's what Argentina is going through and similarly Colombia went through one from having a good generation 90's-early 2000s then gap until 2016 basically.

They have developed fairly steadily, the so-called golden generation in 1990 had only two players in Europe, representing Young Boys Bern and Montpellier. Now they only have three players from the domestic league and more with European giants. Also in between they had some of the best players in their history like Falcao, Yepes, and Córdoba, but they were less lucky because of the new qualification system in South America. The 1990 team only needed to win Ecuador, Paraguay, Israel, and the United Arab Emirates during their whole campaign from the qualifiers to the World Cup knockout stage.
 

Savi

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They have developed fairly steadily, the so-called golden generation in 1990 had only two players in Europe, representing Young Boys Bern and Montpellier.

Doesn't mean anything. 1990 was an entirely different era regarding player mobility, mostly thanks to foreign player limits in Europe and the fact there wasn't big money in football just yet.
 
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Pouchkine

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They have developed fairly steadily, the so-called golden generation in 1990 had only two players in Europe, representing Young Boys Bern and Montpellier. Now they only have three players from the domestic league and more with European giants. Also in between they had some of the best players in their history like Falcao, Yepes, and Córdoba, but they were less lucky because of the new qualification system in South America. The 1990 team only needed to win Ecuador, Paraguay, Israel, and the United Arab Emirates during their whole campaign from the qualifiers to the World Cup knockout stage.
South American players didn't play in Europe as much as today in those days so that's not a really good indicator.
 

Albatros

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Doesn't mean anything. 1990 was an entirely different era regarding player mobility, mostly thanks to foreign player limits in Europe and the fact there wasn't big money in football just yet.

Still all the other South Americans had most of their players abroad, the Colombians just weren't regarded good enough at the time. Even Valderrama initially struggled to make the team at Montpellier and was sent to play with the reserves.
 

Evilo

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And?
Rai, captain of Brazil 94 struggled a lot in his first few months with PSG.
Some players take a little longer to adapt to a new league and country.
 

JunglePete

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But Colombian football has developed as a whole, they used to be one of the worst footballing countries in South America until fairly recently and had no history of success at all.
Huuuh ?!
You are being serious right now?

they were DOMINANT early 90s.
I guess you never heard of Colombia 5-0 Victory over Argentina in 1994, in a sold out Buenos Aires arena....
Argentina struggling against Colombia is nothing new.

they had a drought Mid 2000s but thats about it.
 

Pouchkine

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Still all the other South Americans had most of their players abroad, the Colombians just weren't regarded good enough at the time. Even Valderrama initially struggled to make the team at Montpellier and was sent to play with the reserves.
Argentina and Brazil each had 10 domestic players in 1990 World Cup. Don't look at 30+ years ago through today's glasses.

Russia had almost all domestic players when they made the semis at Euro 2008, some countries are different.
 

JunglePete

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Still all the other South Americans had most of their players abroad, the Colombians just weren't regarded good enough at the time. Even Valderrama initially struggled to make the team at Montpellier and was sent to play with the reserves.

Dude stop, you are actully insulting one of the greatest playmaker of his generation. Playing in Europe wasnt that big of a deal back in 90s, especially for South Americans. It was a different time back then, players had agents with very little contacts, teams didnt scout 12 months a year abroad because what they had locally or nationally was more than good enough.

Higuita was the first sweeper keeper and despite playing only in South America, he is considered one of the greatest GK of all Time to some. I mean this freak took freekicks. That was the Golden Era.

Nowadays they just had better success at the WC but not that good. Davinson is probably the only long term reliable hope and maybe Benedetii but he has ALOT to prove.
 

Live in the Now

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It defenitly matters, as in security issues matter on the quality of the NT team?
If so, you realize the height of Colombian drug cartel and and paramilitary issues where during Colombia's first Golden Generation of Highita/Valderram and their only major title, the 90's-early 2000's.

Or it defenitly matters , as in size of a country correlates to security issues or vice-versa?
Because that would be a real head scratcher as obviously if you follow the news size of country and political instability have no correlation.

So again, sorry I'm failing to see the point you're trying to make?

Security matters in terms of youth football, and a cartel problem to the extent there was one in Colombia would lead to a football crazed country with more people developing less talent than their much smaller neighbors. Their drought in the 00's directly correlates with those issues. A country of their size that cares this much about football should be this talented and should take their place near the top of South American football. I think they should be as good as Argentina for the most part. That's what I'm saying.
 

Panteras

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Security matters in terms of youth football, and a cartel problem to the extent there was one in Colombia would lead to a football crazed country with more people developing less talent than their much smaller neighbors. Their drought in the 00's directly correlates with those issues. A country of their size that cares this much about football should be this talented and should take their place near the top of South American football. I think they should be as good as Argentina for the most part. That's what I'm saying.

I mean sure I guess..instability can cause recession in development. But at the same time, as I already mentioned, their first Golden Generation happened at the height of their instability...

Also, instability can be a source of determination..Iraq winning the Asian Cup.

Well, they're not as good as Argentina, they clearly are better now LOL
 

koyvoo

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It was a winnable game for Qatar. Even after drawing level they found a couple of big openings only to be let down by some poor last touches.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

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Poor D2M

I can't even imagine his reaction when they subbed in Matias Suarez instead of Lautaro/Dybala.

I was fuming immediately turned it off when I saw #19 getting ready to come on. Like is it that hard to comprehend that a 30yr old nobody isn't going to get you a goal? I was already at that nonsense decision to bring on Pizzaro. Scalene said he didn't want to mess with the structure of the team. So, why bring on a moronic player. His failure to cover Savaria cost the team a goal.

Another thing if anyone still rates Paredes or has ever they should go watch another sport. Soccer isn't for them. The guy is so f***ing irrelevant on the pitch. He makes a decent pass once every 4 games. He can take his bum of a teammate ADM too. What a colossal loser that guy is. Non existent for years with the NT. I thought I was done with his ass after he embarrassed himself in the WC. Guess not.

Biggest loser is D2M who managed to convince himself they wouldn't be a joke. with a half decent 11 but Scaloni is absolutely clueless. Bauza level. 8 months ago I was asked why I thought it was a mistake to keep him as coach. Well this is exhibit A. He isn't a coach. Never coached anything worth of note. Guess you get what you don't pay for eh. Anyway, I'll be back full of hope on Wednesday only to be crushed again.

He is to blame as much as his teammates

And he missed a sitter too lmao

He had 3 players in fornt of him and it was a header. but you knew that.

Honestly I don't think most of us are surprised.
Perhaps, simply because it's Argentina and the fact that one of, if not the best player in history plays for them, we think they're automatically going to go get some silverware and thus the massive expecations hover.
They have been close to it, like really close to glory in both CA and WC. But let's be honest, this generation of Argentinian players has lost their chance (Messi/Kun/Di Maria) and what is currenty there just doesn't seem that promising except Dybala.
They seem to be in a transition period and that's just the fact of it, they are not able to summon a decent enough squad to challange at the moment. Like I said, perhaps because of the history and the 1 player currently in their team that's hard to swallow but it shouldn't. Brazil got stomped at home 7-1 in a WC, Netherlands has missed major tournaments recently. It happens. Football is not like hockey where unless there's a new ice age where people in Africa and Latina America can get a chance to level up, the top dogs will remain for the forseeble future. Nowadays just look at the last WC, tactics have evolved and many teams thought as very weak are actually very competitive.

Anyway, let's give credit to Colombia, perfect example of a nation that went through a generational drought for some time and now they have a been having a great squad and that's all it is with Argentina.

Argentina should be better they're just in turmoil with corruption.

Argentine FA are either completely clueless or are deliberately trying to make a joke out of its NT. From appointing Maradona years ago, then going for an ultra defensive coach and follow that up with an ultra offensive coach in Sampaoli, not having any kind of long term plan for the NT or youth development, etc etc and now with so many older players retiring and a lack of elite talent to replace them you go with a manager with no coaching experience whatsoever?
In an interview after the game Scaloni said they mostly played very well but they lost because the pitch was really bad :laugh:

Clueless FA appointing just another clueless manager. Looking at the setup of the team last night -both in personnel and tactics- it was destined to fail when it mostly looked like this


Then of course you have probably the worst central defenders in ages (which always used to be a strength) and the worst central midfield since the beginning of the world, then you have the best player ever and no clue how to use him and an insanely talented kid in Dybala you let rot on the bench.

I think it will be a miracle if this team even makes the semis

Sabella/Tata those were the only 2 good coaches the past decade+. Scaloni is a dumbass. The central defenders used to be a strength when? Pezzella is getting a lot of heat and its undeserved he actually good or decent. Look at what Columbia has or Chile when they won the Copa. It matters not so much if you have a proper coach. Sadly they don't and everyone looks worse.

Actually Messi should retire from Argentina for many reasons and they wouldn't be any worse without him.

Really because they wouldn't have qualified for the WC without him... You just love embarrassing yourself. Maybe you're part of the AFA?
 
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Duchene2MacKinnon

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Also not sure why everyone is acting Qatar is Canada level... they just won Asia. Not like Paraguay is world beater.
 

Albatros

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they were DOMINANT early 90s.
I guess you never heard of Colombia 5-0 Victory over Argentina in 1994, in a sold out Buenos Aires arena....

1994 they were also dead last in their World Cup group with Romania, Switzerland, and the United States.

they had a drought Mid 2000s but thats about it.

They won Uruguay 5:0 in 2004 and only suffered three defeats all year, not sure how that's supposed to be different to 1994.
 

JunglePete

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1994 they were also dead last in their World Cup group with Romania, Switzerland, and the United States.



They won Uruguay 5:0 in 2004 and only suffered three defeats all year, not sure how that's supposed to be different to 1994.

Yeah it goes back to what I've said. I said They were dominant in South Ameeica not worldwide but under achiever at the WCs. Trust me, I'd know about Colombia..

Also Argentina at that time were runners up in the previous world cup ('90) with legends. I dont even think Uruguay made the Wc in 2002 but maybe they did but were eliminated fast. I could be wrong.
 

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