2019 Copa America

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by koyvoo, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Yup. Yup. Yup.
    Ronaldo won one major tournament, because a change of rules allowed you to suck in the group stage and his D and coaching won him the tournament.
    The only times Ronaldo performed big on the international stage was against Hungary and North Korea.

    Messi clearly hasn't played up to his level with Argentina, but that's not his fault only. Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria ALL underachieve. That should tell you a lot.

    Nobody's saying Aguero is a bad player because he sucks with Argentina. And yet it's true. He does suck awful with his NT.
     
  2. koyvoo

    koyvoo For Badgeholders Only

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    This isn’t exactly true. He’s had big and influential games vs Holland and Spain, he singlehandedly won the 2014 two leg playoff bs Sweden. After losing their first game in qualifying for the 2016 Euro, he went on to lead European qualifying in scoring and carried Portugal into the tournament.

    The guy had scored 51 goals in his past 42 games played for Portugal going back to the start of the 2013 calendar year, and of his 88 international goals, only 17 have come in friendlies. The rest have been in competitive matches.

    Now your point on the 3rd place qualifying for knockout stage for the first time in 2016 isn’t wrong, but I implore you to look into that final group stage game vs Hungary closely again - with the score tied at 3 with 20 minutes left in the game and both teams assured of qualifying for the knockouts, both teams completely stopped playing. It’s a situation we’ve seen before in similar circumstances when both teams decide to stop taking risks and just play out the final minutes and take the assured qualification. For the first 65 minutes of thst game, many people were claiming it to be the game of the tournament, and that’s what the historical narrative will be, but many people don’t remember how poorly that game ended with both teams not competing anyone and just passing the ball along their back fours.

    So I’m not going to say that had the qualification to the knockout completely relied on the result of that gane that Portugal definitely would’ve scored to win it, but considering that Hungary scored two of the most heavily deflected goals you’ll ever see and that Portugal was turning the screw to get the equalizer until both teams stopped playing, they’d a strong chance that they would’ve if qualifying for the knockout was fully reliant on a win in that game.
     
  3. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Sorry I don't remember, Sweden/Portugal? Is that a WC game?
    No it's not. It's a playoff game because Portugal couldn't even qualify from a weak ass group. That's an awful achievement, and again, not even one in the WC or EC.
    Again, you fail to mention big games in the WC and EC.
    The only dominant performance I can remember are against North Korea (6-0 or something like that) and Hungary (3-3).
    He was hardly good in that Spain game and everyone knows it.

    As for the whatifs of the Hungary game, yes, let's not go there. Portugal could also have lost.
    So I stand by what I said : saying you take Ronaldo for a big NT final is laughable given his two appearances. Portugal won one tournament with Ronaldo, and that was on the back of great defending, goaltending and defensive coaching. Bernardo Silva also sucked offensively, so Ronaldo was not alone.
    It's really the same as Messi, Aguero, Di Maria and all of them sucking for Argentina.
    At some point, coaching has a lot to do with it.

    But saying Ronaldo is somehow superior to Messi with the NT is beyond ridiculous. They're both extremely weak. But then again, consider the source.
     
  4. koyvoo

    koyvoo For Badgeholders Only

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    Firstly my argument is not saying that he superior to Messi on an international level. Just trying to give him credit for what he’s done for his country the same way I would to anyone trying to downplay Messi’s contributions to his.

    So fine, if you want to discredit qualifiers, you’re still failing to acknowledge the 2 goal game vs Holland at Euro 2012 and the winning goal in the quarter final of that tournament.

    It’s also a little skewed to judge him in a final that he played at 19 years old when the veterans on that team also crapped the bed in that game, and another in which his knee was blown out after 8 minutes.

    Lastly, Bernardo Silva did not play poorly offensively at Euro 2016 because he missed the entire tournament and was not in the squad due to injury.
     
  5. Chimaera

    Chimaera same ol' Caps

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    Managers have failed him sure, but Argentina has some flaws that are hard to overcome. They’ve got dynamic attack, but it’s hard to fit some of them on the pitch. Their defenders haven’t always been of the same level as their attack either.
     
  6. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Ah true, but other offensive portugese players didn't perform.
    Well i was responding to someone saying he'd take Ronaldo for a big NT final. Which is laughable given Ronaldo's achievements in that category.
    As a matter of fact, Ronaldo has rarely performed up to his usual level with his NT. He has disappointed many times and even with a decent team couldn't exist much on the international stage.
    The only exception was 2016, and it's a huge matter of consequences (change of rules, weaker half, post by Gignac, etc...) that made Portugal advance. And contrary to Messi's entire NT career, that team actually was coached to defend well and that D gave them the win. And Gignac missing a one meter shot, it must be said.

    To say you'd pick Ronaldo in a NT final over Messi is laughable. He sucked in one and was injured in the other.
     
  7. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    I'd say Sabella was good. Tata was decent. The rest were not even coaches. Now it seem Scaloni will stay on until at least the end of 2019. Incredibly dumb, you have to give the new coach time to set his team up for 2020 copa.
     
  8. mariopepper

    mariopepper Registered User

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    I hoped Argentina would win.. Messi deserves at least one int. trophie with his team
     
  9. John Pedro

    John Pedro #JackHughes

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  10. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    Enjoy it. Your team actually knows how to produce players, function, implement a system, appoint a coach, pay for things and win.
     
  11. John Pedro

    John Pedro #JackHughes

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    no joy watching this team play, tbh. The midfield sucks, Firmino and Jesus are incredible meh compared to what we used to have up front, our best player was a free agent RB and our coach is a stubborn that has no clue about how to set an offense. No way this team beats top European sides.
     
  12. N o o d l e s

    N o o d l e s Registered User

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    ¡Gol de Peru!
     
  13. koyvoo

    koyvoo For Badgeholders Only

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    Would love to see Peru in the final. They look more engaged than Chile so far too.
     
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  14. N o o d l e s

    N o o d l e s Registered User

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    ¡Otra vez!
     
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  15. HajdukSplit

    HajdukSplit Registered User

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    Goalkeeper seemed very lazy getting back, stupid play regardless
     
  16. Fire Sweeney

    Fire Sweeney Registered User

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    Chile will suck for the next 10+ years.
     
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  17. koyvoo

    koyvoo For Badgeholders Only

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    Back to back defending champs go down. Well done Peru.

    Brazil-Peru final on Sunday.
     
  18. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    Sometimes I’m smart
     
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  19. Kshahdoo

    Kshahdoo Registered User

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    Those who think Messi is better, than Maradona, clearly too young and don't remember, how Maradona played. And it's laughable to blame players around Messi in Argentina's suckage. Argentina had Maradona, Caniggia and 20 suckers in 1990 and got to World Cup's final.
     
  20. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Yeah right.
    You won't get many good vibes from people who actually watched the guy play.
     
  21. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    Lol you don’t even know what happened it looks like. Maradona made one or two great plays the whole tournament. The fact is the TEAM makes finals. Players can win a final on their own but to get there at all requires the team. Doesn’t matter if you know the players or not, they executed their tactics very well. They also nearly won that final without Maradona doing anything.
     
  22. Kshahdoo

    Kshahdoo Registered User

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    That's what great players are needed for. Argentina had a verry average team in 1990, so played very defensively, and Maradona saved them vs USSR with another "hand of god", made an assist vs Romania and scored the only goal to Brazil. Messi hasn't been able to do any of this for his whole career.

    What he's able though, is winning countless Spain champion titles, where Barca has 5-10 times bigger budget, than any team, but Real.

    Edmonton fans love to say, Kucherov isn't that great, because he plays on stacked Tampa Bay. Well, if Tampa is stacked, then Barca is... like... I don't even know a proper word for it.
     
  23. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Well Maradona sure wasn't able to do much in club football.
     
  24. Savi

    Savi Registered User

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    Brilliant.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Duchene2MacKinnon

    Duchene2MacKinnon Dybalascibar

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    Like I said scandal. But it wasn't only VAR that was the real issue. It was the ref.
     

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