Prospect Info: 2019 Blues Prospect Camp

Novacain

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Feb 24, 2012
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IMO his ceiling is/was overrated but his floor is a little underrated. I think we use the boom/bust label too much with players, I think exactly zero people here had guys like Blais and Barbashev pegged as gritty, physical bottom 6 players when we drafted them (or even just a couple of years ago), yet they performed that role on a Cup team.

I simply don't see the high end offensive instincts with Kostin, heavy shot yes but also tunnel vision with the puck on his stick. However, I do see a big, physical guy who is willing to drop the gloves who has some offensive tools, mainly his shot. IMO I think he is closer to Tom Wilson or Ryan Reaves than a high end scorer.

Odd comparison with Wilson to Reaves as he is a legitimately solid 2nd/3rd liner on production, were as Ryan is just a 4th line emery guy.

And I completely disagree regarding Kostins floor. High floor players are high floor players because they constantly work hard as hell to be productive on the ice and we have seen zero of that out of Klim so far. You can argue he was one of the absolute worst defensive players in the AHL last year. Unless he takes big steps forward there no way he makes this roster any time soon.
 

ChicagoBlues

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Odd comparison with Wilson to Reaves as he is a legitimately solid 2nd/3rd liner on production, were as Ryan is just a 4th line emery guy.

And I completely disagree regarding Kostins floor. High floor players are high floor players because they constantly work hard as hell to be productive on the ice and we have seen zero of that out of Klim so far. You can argue he was one of the absolute worst defensive players in the AHL last year. Unless he takes big steps forward there no way he makes this roster any time soon.

Daz raciss!

Comparing him to Ray Emery. Jeez!
 
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Mike Liut

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I’m really pulling for Kostin. I like size and toughness a lot. But im the idiot who complained when we took Thomas over Kostin with our 1st pick. Damn, im an idiot.
 
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LetsGoBooze

Buium or bust
Jan 16, 2012
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I’m really pulling for Kostin. I like size and toughness a lot. But im the idiot who complained when we took Thomas over Kostin with our 1st pick. Damn, im an idiot.
Don't feel bad, the majority of the board voted Kostin over Thomas in the prospect rankings within our system the week after their draft. I was pleading with people that BA and company knew what they were doing, but to deaf ears.
 
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David Dennison

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Odd comparison with Wilson to Reaves as he is a legitimately solid 2nd/3rd liner on production, were as Ryan is just a 4th line emery guy.

And I completely disagree regarding Kostins floor. High floor players are high floor players because they constantly work hard as hell to be productive on the ice and we have seen zero of that out of Klim so far. You can argue he was one of the absolute worst defensive players in the AHL last year. Unless he takes big steps forward there no way he makes this roster any time soon.
I meant that type of player, trying to give a range of where I think Kostin could end up. And Wilson's production is pretty bleh, and inflated by playing with world class linemates and more ice time than he sometimes deserves. But yeah, 2nd/3rd line 10-20g, 30-40p physical guy is kind of where I see his ceiling right now.

But I disagree with your definition of high floor, I take it to mean that the player has a high likelihood of being an NHLer. Mine is more general that a player just needs a good enough mix of everything that goes into a hockey player, not that the player necessarily has to be a high energy grinder.

So often it's the 'boom/bust' skilled player in minors who develops a defensive or physical game and becomes a bottom 6 NHLer, and the high energy 'high floor' guys in juniors are career AHL/ECHLers because they don't have the physical talent or minimum scoring touch to stick. Every time a player advances to a higher league they become a smaller fish in a bigger pond.

But back to Kostin, he is already a top tier athlete and is willing to run around and hit and fight. If he just gets a little better offensively/defensively, he is gonna get opportunities in the NHL. Like I said, I don't really buy into his high ceiling, and I would certainly be open to moving him, but I also see that he is a physical specimen and sometimes being really good at one thing can cover up other deficiencies in your game.
 

Blueston

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I meant that type of player, trying to give a range of where I think Kostin could end up. And Wilson's production is pretty bleh, and inflated by playing with world class linemates and more ice time than he sometimes deserves. But yeah, 2nd/3rd line 10-20g, 30-40p physical guy is kind of where I see his ceiling right now.

But I disagree with your definition of high floor, I take it to mean that the player has a high likelihood of being an NHLer. Mine is more general that a player just needs a good enough mix of everything that goes into a hockey player, not that the player necessarily has to be a high energy grinder.

So often it's the 'boom/bust' skilled player in minors who develops a defensive or physical game and becomes a bottom 6 NHLer, and the high energy 'high floor' guys in juniors are career AHL/ECHLers because they don't have the physical talent or minimum scoring touch to stick. Every time a player advances to a higher league they become a smaller fish in a bigger pond.

But back to Kostin, he is already a top tier athlete and is willing to run around and hit and fight. If he just gets a little better offensively/defensively, he is gonna get opportunities in the NHL. Like I said, I don't really buy into his high ceiling, and I would certainly be open to moving him, but I also see that he is a physical specimen and sometimes being really good at one thing can cover up other deficiencies in your game.
But what is he good at? If guy is mediocre AHLer that is pretty low floor. He may well get much better, but if he doesn't he is fairly useless.
 

Blueston

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How many 19 year olds exceed your idea of a mediocre AHLer?
You are judging him on a curve which isn't appropriate for that question. His age may well be why he has struggled in AHL and he may well get much, much better. He may one day be a star NHLer. But the point is that he isn't good enough right now to be a good AHLer so it is silly to say his floor is a good bottom 6 NHLer.
 

David Dennison

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But what is he good at? If guy is mediocre AHLer that is pretty low floor. He may well get much better, but if he doesn't he is fairly useless.
Not every player is Robert Thomas and ready to jump into the NHL at 19 (or sometime those players turn out to be Dmitrij Jaskin). Barbashev wasn't very good at 19 in the AHL.

These players aren't finished products, and Kostin has high end size and physicality, and above average speed for his size. Like I said, I don't think he is the next great Russian goal scorer or anything, but he has produced against his own age group and could be average or slightly above average in the NHL offensively.

Not every player in the NHL is perfect, if he can pot maybe 15 goals and be the designated fighter/agitator, I think he has a pretty good chance to stick for awhile in the NHL.
 

Blueston

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Not every player is Robert Thomas and ready to jump into the NHL at 19 (or sometime those players turn out to be Dmitrij Jaskin). Barbashev wasn't very good at 19 in the AHL.

These players aren't finished products, and Kostin has high end size and physicality, and above average speed for his size. Like I said, I don't think he is the next great Russian goal scorer or anything, but he has produced against his own age group and could be average or slightly above average in the NHL offensively.

Not every player in the NHL is perfect, if he can pot maybe 15 goals and be the designated fighter/agitator, I think he has a pretty good chance to stick for awhile in the NHL.
What you are saying here makes sense. He may turn out to be real nice 3rd liner. Or better. Or not. But the idea that he has a high floor is independent of anything you just said here as he needs to get a great deal better to be an NHLer and we don't know whether he will. I hope that he will, but the uncertainty combined with his current level of play is what makes his floor much lower than you suggest. His floor is he is mediocre AHLer who goes back to Europe to finish out career.
 

MortiestOfMortys

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So... anybody go to prospect camp or are we just gonna argue about Kostin in here lol?

I read on Twitter that Hrabik made quite the impression. I saw a few videos posted, and it looked like they were playing at about 50% (duh, it’s summer hockey), but it’s good to stand out regardless
 

Edgar Carrow

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You are judging him on a curve which isn't appropriate for that question. His age may well be why he has struggled in AHL and he may well get much, much better. He may one day be a star NHLer. But the point is that he isn't good enough right now to be a good AHLer so it is silly to say his floor is a good bottom 6 NHLer.
I didn't make any judgements. I asked you a question.
 

execwrite1

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From the P-D

In Tuesday’s scrimmage, it was the undrafted players in camp who had the best games. Ben Copeland, who will be a sophomore at Colorado College, and Casey Gilling, who will be a junior at Miami of Ohio, each had a hat trick as Team Tkachuk beat Team MacInnis 8-3. The only drafted player to score was Jeremy Michel, the last player chosen in the draft. He had the goal that made it 7-3.
 

67Blues

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I simply don't see the high end offensive instincts with Kostin, heavy shot yes but also tunnel vision with the puck on his stick. However, I do see a big, physical guy who is willing to drop the gloves who has some offensive tools, mainly his shot. IMO I think he is closer to Tom Wilson or Ryan Reaves than a high end scorer.
Maybe he could be like Probert minus the coke, steroids, and that whole being banned from an entire country thing.:laugh:
 

ChicagoBlues

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In years past we would avidly discuss the prospects tournament, but now that we are Cup champions, it seems like we’ve lost a little interest
 
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MortiestOfMortys

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0 attention paid to prospects camp this year. I get it, but still very annoying. It’s kind of ironic; Prospect Camp used to be the highlight of the summer, a chance to see the next wave and dream about the future. Now that we’ve achieved the ultimate goal... I hope our enthusiasm doesn’t die. Maybe we just need time to process this. Maybe we just don’t know how to handle this much hockey in June!

Nevertheless, it’s on the franchise to keep the ball rolling. Bring the cup in, do a bunch of features with the future prospects talking about how they want to be the next wave. Amp up the enthusiasm, give us all one last burst of happiness before the long summer.

I would assume that, instead, our media crew is busy planning out a busy summer of following guys around, bringing the cup to their home town and whatnot. SUPER stoked to see all those videos. So I categorize this gripe as a nit pick. Not worth crying or writing letters about.

Even still... cmon guys. Let me get stoked about Bokk, Kostin, Alexandrov, Hofer, Ellis, Tucker, and the invitees. You’re obviously there, you’re obviously posting videos on social media, just... post more. We aren’t getting the fans taking off a full week of work to go to camp this year, because they spent all of their vacation time and money on the Cup run, so fill in their coverage, would ya please? The Post Dispatch doesn’t give a f***. The Athletic doesn’t give a f***. ESPN doesn’t give a f***. Last Word on Sports doesn’t give a f***. Can at least our own franchise care enough to provide coverage?

We just won the Cup!!! Act like our team deserves to be cared about!
 

Blanick

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Anyone here actually attending the camp scrimmages? There’s been lots of in person reports previous years but that seems to be missing this time around.

Come on, I live 5-6 hours away, I’m counting on you people! :laugh:

Sadly I am unable to attend this year. I live over an hour away from Enterprise Center and it just doesn't make sense to me to travel down there just for a scrimmage. Especially given the scrimmage is only a small part of how I would evaluate the prospects. Not being able to watch the drills is disappointing. Hopefully with the Ice Complex in Maryland Heights opening next year they will move the camp there and allow attendance to all aspects once again.
 

Frenzy31

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May 21, 2003
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This is always 3 v 3 junk. It really has not done much to help look at players. I think the Traverse City Tourny allows us to judge more.

Also, in August there is a U20 tourney - I was at the one 2 years ago. It is like a prep for the WJC. I am not sure if anyone will be invited to play, but maybe someone will get a look.
 
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STL fan in MN

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Aug 16, 2007
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Looking at the pics the Blues have posted on social media, it looks like plenty of people are there. It must just be that none of them post in this forum! :laugh: :thumbd:
 

BleedBlueForever

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Jun 24, 2015
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So I'll give this a shot since I've been to all three this week, I'm not even close to an expert. Also, really sucks to not to be able to see drills this year, kind of hard to focus on each player during scrimmage:

Kostin: His speed looks like it's about the same but his acceleration improved. Puck protection is still there and used his body a lot to shield players from the puck. Seemed like he's gotten better and more relaxed as camp has gone on. He found a few soft spots in the slot today but didn't bury those chances. Had a nice breakaway goal yesterday. His hand are good made some very nice moves today.

Bokk: Good lord does he have hands. His passing is very good, looked like he was getting frustrated at points when some of the invitees couldn't handle his passes. Defense is an area to improve on, which is usually the case for young offensive players. His skating was very good, gets up the ice in a hurry. I wish he would have shot more in the first couple days, he seemed defer a lot, but today he shot a lot more. Don't think he had any goals though.

Perunovich:
Skating and passing are his best attributes to me. His speed, acceleration, edgework seemed better and more noticeable than last year. He walks the line very well and could usually get around his man. His passing is great, he always seemed to find an open man, just wish he would shot more. He's probably shot less than 10 times in 3 scrimmages. He has good stickwork in the d-zone which makes up for the lack of size, usually going directly at the opposing player and applying pressure. Seemed like he won more battles and was stronger on his skates than last year.

Toropchenko:
He looked like he put some weight on since last year. Dude still flies down the ice and also was back-checking which was nice to see. It seemed like when he was out there he was never in the defensive zone, so don't have anything on that. Has good hands and has gotten stronger on his skates. It was great to see him out there with Kostin, they seem to mesh well.

McGing: He has speed for sure. That's about all I noticed out of him, it's a good thing he's going back to college.

Laferriere:
He seems inconsistent to me, Alexandrov and him had a nice tic-tac-toe passing play one minute, then I don't know if I noticed him for the next 10 minutes. Kind of reminds me how Barbie was when he was a prospect. When I did notice him though his passing was always tape to tape. Don't really remember him shooting the puck either. His skating is decent with average speed. Hopefully he can put up some big numbers in juniors next year.

Alexandrov:
Haven't really noticed him at all besides the nice passing play above. If I go tomorrow I'll try and watch him more.

Washkurak:
So far he's looked better than Alexandrov. He's a good skater with some speed. I see why he got that work horse award this past season. Kid works for the puck non-stop. Gets in on the forecheck and backchecks as well. He went to the net a bunch. His passing was pretty good. He seems like he'd top out 3/4 liner, PK, chip in occasionally on offense.

Hofer:
I thought he looked very solid. First day I don't think he let up a goal in scrimmage. His lateral movements were good, made a couple of back-door saves. He made some nice breakaway saves as well. Didn't really handle the puck too often.

Tucker: By far the most improved player from last year for me. Seemed like he was out there the whole time. His skating has gotten a lot better, but still wish we could watch the skating drills. He still isn't the fastest guy, but it seems like his first few steps have gotten quicker allowing him to get up into the play more. His offensive game has greatly improved. His hands and puck control seemed something that he worked on over this past year. At one point he dangled through two people and got a nice shot off from 5 feet out and my mouth dropped. Defensively he's pretty solid, his stick work was good and played the body well (could definitely tell he was holding back). He always seemed to be in the right position minus some breakaways on the 3v3 part of scrimmage. He seemed to play a lot more than the other two on his team, so he did looked gassed in 3v3 a lot, so maybe work on stamina?

Invitees that impressed, that I could see us targeting: Copeland, Curry, Jackson, and Hrabik.

Well there you go hopefully that helps. Wish I could give better details than that. Hopefully some other posters with some better knowledge can post their thoughts.

PS: Krag and Helt haven't really done anything.
 

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