Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 9

[Hatrick Marleau]

Brent Burns has been terrible. He’s providing no offense or creativity and can’t even get his shot through to the net anymore. All he seems to do anymore is shoot from the point and get shots blocked. I doubt this would happen but I’d start playing Burns as a hybrid Forward/Defenseman. They desperately need a RW in the top 6 and I think Burns would get a spark just going out there to create havoc and offense rather than worrying about defense. Then just throw him out there to play D on the PK or late in games when they need offense.

 

[one2gamble]

Brent Burns has been terrible. He’s providing no offense or creativity and can’t even get his shot through to the net anymore. All he seems to do anymore is shoot from the point and get shots blocked. I doubt this would happen but I’d start playing Burns as a hybrid Forward/Defenseman. They desperately need a RW in the top 6 and I think Burns would get a spark just going out there to create havoc and offense rather than worrying about defense. Then just throw him out there to play D on the PK or late in games when they need offense.

The system says shoot from the point so hes shooting it from the point, they are countering him by clogging his lanes and pressuring him high, he has no real relief either because the forwards are not doing anything to release pressure, their in zone strategy is mostly a tire fire even when they get setup.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

The system says shoot from the point so hes shooting it from the point, they are countering him by clogging his lanes and pressuring him high, he has no real relief either because the forwards are not doing anything to release pressure, their in zone strategy is mostly a tire fire even when they get setup.

I know the system likes point shots but Karlsson isn’t having the same problem Burns is. I see Karlsson creating chances and opportunities all over the offensive zone and gets dangerous shots through to the net from the point. I don’t think the system can be used as an excuse for Burns playing horribly.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I know the system likes point shots but Karlsson isn’t having the same problem Burns is. I see Karlsson creating chances and opportunities all over the offensive zone and gets dangerous shots through to the net from the point. I don’t think the system can be used as an excuse for Burns playing horribly.

It could be a combination of the system and Burns being comfortable with it. It worked fine for him over the last few years when we had Pavs tipping his shots in. Erik played less than a season with Pavs and probably never got used to Pavs being there.

So either PDB is choosing to not ask Burns to do something else or he has and Burns is refusing to listen. Either option is not good.

 

[NWSharkie]

It could be a combination of the system and Burns being comfortable with it. It worked fine for him over the last few years when we had Pavs tipping his shots in. Erik played less than a season with Pavs and probably never got used to Pavs being there.

So either PDB is choosing to not ask Burns to do something else or he has and Burns is refusing to listen. Either option is not good.

What I'm surprised about is that he's playing so poorly despite Boughner coming back. He'd spoken really highly of Boughner as a coach before, and won the Norris with Boughner coaching him. So I wonder what's so different this time around. Is it the coaching system trying to fit around both his and Karlsson's playing styles, rather than tailoring itself to his strengths alone?

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

It could be a combination of the system and Burns being comfortable with it. It worked fine for him over the last few years when we had Pavs tipping his shots in. Erik played less than a season with Pavs and probably never got used to Pavs being there.

So either PDB is choosing to not ask Burns to do something else or he has and Burns is refusing to listen. Either option is not good.

He definitely benefited from Pavs tipping pucks but at the same time his issue is not getting shots through to the net right now and horrors defensive play. He is on pace for 220 shots on goal this year. Last year he had 300 shots on goal and the years before that 330-350 shots on goal. Add that to being a minus 20 through only 32 games is not good. I don’t like plus minus but that bad of a number is hard to ignore. I don’t know if I can blame the system for that when Karlsson and Vlasic have both been productive and creating offense in the same system.

 

[Used As A Shield]

He definitely benefited from Pavs tipping pucks but at the same time his issue is not getting shots through to the net right now and horrors defensive play. He is on pace for 220 shots on goal this year. Last year he had 300 shots on goal and the years before that 330-350 shots on goal. Add that to being a minus 20 through only 32 games is not good. I don’t like plus minus but that bad of a number is hard to ignore. I don’t know if I can blame the system for that when Karlsson and Vlasic have both been productive and creating offense in the same system.

Burns really hasnt been doing his backwards sideskate towards the center of the ice to get his puck through anymore, no idea why not.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Burns really hasnt been doing his backwards sideskate towards the center of the ice to get his puck through anymore, no idea why not.

Because PDB has probably told him to sit at the corner and just fire shots. The forwards just try a drop pass for a cycle, rim around the boards, or pass up the boards to a D man. So, he has to sit at the boards waiting for the pass up the boards because that’s the way PDBs system operates. No movement outside of 3 F down low either trying to cycle or get to the front of the net for a screen or a tip.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Took a quick peak at the lines...this roster is a mess. On a top-tier, contending team, Goodrow is an acceptable third liner (that is, 2019-2020! Goodrow, if it is sustainable), Sorensen is an acceptable fourth liner, and Thornton, Gambrell, Karlsson, and Gregor aren’t on the roster.

Forgetting age and contract, if a team could only get the player for this current season, how many of the Sharks’s forwards would get claimed on waivers? Outside of the obvious top players, I’d say Goodrow, with Karlsson and Sorensen having a chance.

 

[matt trick]

Maybe I am overly obsessed with speed, but I think Gregor has been great in his most recent call-up. Gambrell is fine as a 4th liner.

 

[matt trick]

Brent Burns has been terrible. He’s providing no offense or creativity and can’t even get his shot through to the net anymore. All he seems to do anymore is shoot from the point and get shots blocked. I doubt this would happen but I’d start playing Burns as a hybrid Forward/Defenseman. They desperately need a RW in the top 6 and I think Burns would get a spark just going out there to create havoc and offense rather than worrying about defense. Then just throw him out there to play D on the PK or late in games when they need offense.

I don't think that's a terrible idea, until you look at this:

Vlasic-Karlsson
Simek-Ferraro
Dillon-Heed

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Took a quick peak at the lines...this roster is a mess. On a top-tier, contending team, Goodrow is an acceptable third liner (that is, 2019-2020! Goodrow, if it is sustainable), Sorensen is an acceptable fourth liner, and Thornton, Gambrell, Karlsson, and Gregor aren’t on the roster.

Forgetting age and contract, if a team could only get the player for this current season, how many of the Sharks’s forwards would get claimed on waivers? Outside of the obvious top players, I’d say Goodrow, with Karlsson and Sorensen having a chance.

I think some of the Thornton takes are going a bit far here. Thornton isn’t playing great but he would be completely fine playing on the 4th line of a contending team as long as you understand he doesn’t PK and you allocate those minutes properly.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think some of the Thornton takes are going a bit far here. Thornton isn’t playing great but he would be completely fine playing on the 4th line of a contending team as long as you understand he doesn’t PK and you allocate those minutes properly.

Thornton would be fine if he were on the fourth line, playing like a fourth liner. But, he isn’t. Even now on the third line, he’s trying to make high-skill plays that his skills just cannot cash.

Plus, his legs are so shot that’s he will be a major liability against faster teams.

 

[Gecklund]

Took a quick peak at the lines...this roster is a mess. On a top-tier, contending team, Goodrow is an acceptable third liner (that is, 2019-2020! Goodrow, if it is sustainable), Sorensen is an acceptable fourth liner, and Thornton, Gambrell, Karlsson, and Gregor aren’t on the roster.

Forgetting age and contract, if a team could only get the player for this current season, how many of the Sharks’s forwards would get claimed on waivers? Outside of the obvious top players, I’d say Goodrow, with Karlsson and Sorensen having a chance.

All of them are fine. You are wrong about a contending roster not having those players. Ideally the lines look something like

Kane-Couture-RW
Meier-Hertl-Labanc
Marleau-Thornton-Goodrow
Sorenson-Gambrell-Melker

Gregor is still good enough for an injury fill in. Honestly if we were able to resign Nyquist last off-season and everyone played to average, this would look great.

 

[Used As A Shield]

New article on the PP from Peng

What’s going wrong with San Jose’s power play?

 

[OrrNumber4]

All of them are fine. You are wrong about a contending roster not having those players. Ideally the lines look something like

Kane-Couture-RW
Meier-Hertl-Labanc
Marleau-Thornton-Goodrow
Sorenson-Gambrell-Melker

Gregor is still good enough for an injury fill in. Honestly if we were able to resign Nyquist last off-season and everyone played to average, this would look great.

So the Sharks are missing a first-line winger...plus, I still think that on a true contending team, Marleau is on the fourth line, as is Thornton (at best!) and Gambrell/Melker are in the press box.

Not to mention that this season, Meier’s been closer to a third-line player than he is to a first-line player.

 

[Gecklund]

So the Sharks are missing a first-line winger...plus, I still think that on a true contending team, Marleau is on the fourth line, as is Thornton (at best!) and Gambrell/Melker are in the press box.

Not to mention that this season, Meier’s been closer to a third-line player than he is to a first-line player.

Again if everyone is playing to their average that would be fine. Marleau and Jumbo are not 4th line players, they are at worst 3rd. Gambrell has been fine. Melker is crucial to our PK.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Again if everyone is playing to their average that would be fine. Marleau and Jumbo are not 4th line players, they are at worst 3rd. Gambrell has been fine. Melker is crucial to our PK.

I think if you look at the top teams in the league (and even some of the not-top ones), it is clear that Marleau and Thornton are not “at worst” third-line players. Let’s not live in the SJ bubble.

 

[Gecklund]

I think if you look at the top teams in the league (and even some of the not-top ones), it is clear that Marleau and Thornton are not “at worst” third-line players. Let’s not live in the SJ bubble.

Okay top teams in the league. EDM are leading the Pacific. They have Kassian, Kharia, and Gagner who are in their top 6. They all all worse than both Jumbo and Patty. The Blues are leading the Central with Walker and Sanford in their top 6. The Bruins bottom 6 except maybe Coyle are all worse than Patty and Jumbo and they are leading the NHL. Just because you believe top teams have better depth than the Sharks doesn’t mean it’s true. The problem for Sharks is their top end talent is no where near ROR, McDavid, Drai, Pasta, Bergeron, Marchand.

 

[weastern bias]

I don't think that's a terrible idea, until you look at this:

Vlasic-Karlsson
Simek-Ferraro
Dillon-Heed

Yep

Our forward depth is awful, but so is our defensive depth

There are no easy fixes for this mediocre roster in a cap world, we just have too many dollars tied up in players who aren't performing up to their cap hit (Jones, Vlasic, Burns, Thornton, Meier, Karlsson)

Best case scenario is we bottom out and pick up a young stud in the draft who can outperform the value of his ELC. . . OH WAIT. . .

 

[OrrNumber4]

Okay top teams in the league. EDM are leading the Pacific. They have Kassian, Kharia, and Gagner who are in their top 6. They all all worse than both Jumbo and Patty. The Blues are leading the Central with Walker and Sanford in their top 6. The Bruins bottom 6 except maybe Coyle are all worse than Patty and Jumbo and they are leading the NHL. Just because you believe top teams have better depth than the Sharks doesn’t mean it’s true. The problem for Sharks is their top end talent is no where near ROR, McDavid, Drai, Pasta, Bergeron, Marchand.

I will grant you that on a healthy Edmonton team, Thornton and Marleau are probably third liners (though at this point I would take Gagner over Thornton).

But Marleau and Thornton would be the 10th-14th best forwards on the Blues. Even on a very top-heavy team like Boston, Marleau and Thornton might not crack the top-9. Especially Thornton, since he can’t play the defensively sound, high-energy game of someone like Kuraly.

 

[Gecklund]

I will grant you that on a healthy Edmonton team, Thornton and Marleau are probably third liners (though at this point I would take Gagner over Thornton).

But Marleau and Thornton would be the 10th-14th best forwards on the Blues. Even on a very top-heavy team like Boston, Marleau and Thornton might not crack the top-9. Especially Thornton, since he can’t play the defensively sound, high-energy game of someone like Kuraly.

Your entire argument is based on opinion. So my entire defense of mine is that you are wrong.

 

[matt trick]

Yep

Our forward depth is awful, but so is our defensive depth

There are no easy fixes for this mediocre roster in a cap world, we just have too many dollars tied up in players who aren't performing up to their cap hit (Jones, Vlasic, Burns, Thornton, Meier, Karlsson)

Best case scenario is we bottom out and pick up a young stud in the draft who can outperform the value of his ELC. . . OH WAIT. . .

I mean a defense of Ek, Karlsson, Ferraro, Dillon, Simek, and Heed ain’t bad, but it’s just too left handed heavy. If Simek was playing as well as last year, I wouldn’t hate it as much as I hate our right wings. Maybe Merkely forces the issue next year.

 

[Anomie2029]

I know the system likes point shots but Karlsson isn’t having the same problem Burns is. I see Karlsson creating chances and opportunities all over the offensive zone and gets dangerous shots through to the net from the point. I don’t think the system can be used as an excuse for Burns playing horribly.

The book is out on the Sharks system and teams are applying more pressure to the points. The reason that Karlsson is still able to create those chances and opportunities is because his style is vastly different to Burns.

Look at the below example of Karlsson:


Karlsson is better at the deceiving the pressure and making small moves to evade and create space. That is not Burns style. He is a power skater and tries to force his way through.

The Sharks need to change the system to get more out of Burns.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The book is out on the Sharks system and teams are applying more pressure to the points. The reason that Karlsson is still able to create those chances and opportunities is because his style is vastly different to Burns.

Look at the below example of Karlsson:


Karlsson is better at the deceiving the pressure and making small moves to evade and create space. That is not Burns style. He is a power skater and tries to force his way through.

The Sharks need to change the system to get more out of Burns.

Pretty much. I mean, it is really bad because most D-men who rely on point shots are generally ones with heavy slap shots. Burns is more of a wrist shot guy, though he does have a great shot, and a lot of his production from the point was because of deflections in front of the net. Like you said, he is a power skater with a big body but is largely being wasted with his utilization.