Prospect Info: 2019-2020 Senators Prospects Watch

[Sens of Anarchy]

33

Johnny Gruden

19

F

24

10

19

29

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[aragorn]

Two more good prospects in Gruden & Pinto with pro potential.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The scouting team saw something in Pinto that they were not remotely interested in losing. Obviously after a nights sleep they felt that he was the best NHL player to be in the second round.

Im glad that’s he’s actually showing signs of being worthy of that praise.

 

[Xspyrit]

The scouting team saw something in Pinto that they were not remotely interested in losing. Obviously after a nights sleep they felt that he was the best NHL player to be in the second round.

Im glad that’s he’s actually showing signs of being worthy of that praise.

And they might end right or they might end wrong but considering the amount of young talent the team already had, I think they could have gone with a risky pick and try to hit a homerun. There won't be spots for everybody, not even close.

Even if you don't re-sign Pageau, Namestnikov, Tierney (and Sabourin) and trade them instead, you still have going forward :

Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson
Balcers-Norris-Duclair
Formenton-White-Brown
Paul

I think those 10 are going to be on the big team very soon (6 already are)

That leaves 2-3 spots for Chlapik, Abramov, Beaudin, Davidsson, Veronneau, Gruden, Crookshank, Kastelic, Novak, Kelly, Carcone and Nurmi. And I'm not even taking into account any of 8 top-2 rounds draft picks they have in the next 2 drafts (within 18 months)

What is the need for Pinto exactly? Who is going to be much better than in the top-9? What this team needs going forward is upgrades on some of these top-10 guys. Hence, why they should go for homeruns.

 

[aragorn]

And they might end right or they might end wrong but considering the amount of young talent the team already had, I think they could have gone with a risky pick and try to hit a homerun. There won't be spots for everybody, not even close.

Even if you don't re-sign Pageau, Namestnikov, Tierney (and Sabourin) and trade them instead, you still have going forward :

Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson
Balcers-Norris-Duclair
Formenton-White-Brown
Paul

I think those 10 are going to be on the big team very soon (6 already are)

That leaves 2-3 spots for Chlapik, Abramov, Beaudin, Davidsson, Veronneau, Gruden, Crookshank, Kastelic, Novak, Kelly, Carcone and Nurmi. And I'm not even taking into account any of 8 top-2 rounds draft picks they have in the next 2 drafts (within 18 months)

What is the need for Pinto exactly? Who is going to be much better than in the top-9? What this team needs going forward is upgrades on some of these top-10 guys. Hence, why they should go for homeruns.

Pinto could turn in to a home run, who knows but more likely a complimentary player that chips in offensively? It looks to me like they are building a bigger tougher team that is going to be hard to play against & will score by committee. It looks to me like they are building a playoff team IMO & they just need a couple of goal scorers to fill out the lineup like Batherson & Byfield.

 

[Xspyrit]

Pinto could turn in to a home run, who knows but more likely a complimentary player that chips in offensively? It looks to me like they are building a bigger tougher team that is going to be hard to play against & will score by committee. It looks to me like they are building a playoff team IMO & they just need a couple of goal scorers to fill out the lineup like Batherson & Byfield.

Yeah, they are building a Habs/Inslanders/Vegas kind of team. Great and everything but (outside of Vegas miracle run during the first year), you don't go far with a team like that. Vegas has been adding major talent now.

By homerun, I mean legit 1st liner, and I don't see Pinto become one. Would like to be wrong of course.

 

[IamJust0ne]

I'm still not sure what Pinto's ceiling even is. Guy is apparently a natural athlete and didn't start playing hockey full time until he was 15 but he's already putting up decent numbers (2nd on his team in goals) as a 19 year old playing against 22 & 23 year olds. Has decent size and nice finish from what I've seen, he just self admittedly needs to work on his skating a little bit which is understandable because his main focus hasn't always been hockey. Kaliev is looking good to but Pinto is more of a project who's getting less ice time while playing against harder competition

 

[Ice-Tray]

And they might end right or they might end wrong but considering the amount of young talent the team already had, I think they could have gone with a risky pick and try to hit a homerun. There won't be spots for everybody, not even close.

Even if you don't re-sign Pageau, Namestnikov, Tierney (and Sabourin) and trade them instead, you still have going forward :

Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson
Balcers-Norris-Duclair
Formenton-White-Brown
Paul

I think those 10 are going to be on the big team very soon (6 already are)

That leaves 2-3 spots for Chlapik, Abramov, Beaudin, Davidsson, Veronneau, Gruden, Crookshank, Kastelic, Novak, Kelly, Carcone and Nurmi. And I'm not even taking into account any of 8 top-2 rounds draft picks they have in the next 2 drafts (within 18 months)

What is the need for Pinto exactly? Who is going to be much better than in the top-9? What this team needs going forward is upgrades on some of these top-10 guys. Hence, why they should go for homeruns.

Sure, but I think they like to gamble on players that they think will at least be solid NHL players.

They often pick late risers who seem to have potential that hasn’t been accurately assessed by the league over, likely due it it changing constantly over his draft year.

We don’t know how good of a player this kid can be, but we do know that scoring in Junior is no guarantee of a player even making the NHL, let alone becoming a scorer. They obviously feel like this kid is going to keep rising, and thoughtfully that idea looks pretty good as of right now as he’s having a great rookie season in the NCAA.

I personally don’t want the team to pick guys who they don’t feel will be good shots at making the NHL even if they don’t pan out, in the second round, I’d rather they keep an eye out for late risers and at worst NHL talent that can be flipped if they don’t blow up.

Later rounds are where we seem to take fliers on guys, and we do pretty well.

 

[starling]

There is another freshman 2019 pick on UND roster who is younger than Pinto and has about the same PPG pace. Picked in 5th round by Jets. Hold your horses, guys.

 

[GCK]

There is another freshman 2019 pick on UND roster who is younger than Pinto and has about the same PPG pace. Picked in 5th round by Jets. Hold your horses, guys.

Blaisdell has 2+6 in 13 games.

 

[aragorn]

Yeah, they are building a Habs/Inslanders/Vegas kind of team. Great and everything but (outside of Vegas miracle run during the first year), you don't go far with a team like that. Vegas has been adding major talent now.

By homerun, I mean legit 1st liner, and I don't see Pinto become one. Would like to be wrong of course.

He doesn't need to be a 1st liner, they are drafting one or two of those in the next draft. Pinto will be fine as a 3rd liner & the team will be better for it, hopefully, he is good to fill in occasionally in the top six due to injuries for short periods of time too. Formenton - Norris - Pinto could be a great line to watch in a few yrs.

 

[Salva Mea]

pinto and gruden wjc projected roster

i think both will be in..

 

[SpezDispenser]

Yeah, they are building a Habs/Inslanders/Vegas kind of team. Great and everything but (outside of Vegas miracle run during the first year), you don't go far with a team like that. Vegas has been adding major talent now.

By homerun, I mean legit 1st liner, and I don't see Pinto become one. Would like to be wrong of course.

You'll get your legit 1st liner in June. You need support behind him and the sens have done really well filling their cupboard with all-tool top 9 prospects like Pinto.

 

[Sweatred]

And they might end right or they might end wrong but considering the amount of young talent the team already had, I think they could have gone with a risky pick and try to hit a homerun. There won't be spots for everybody, not even close.

Even if you don't re-sign Pageau, Namestnikov, Tierney (and Sabourin) and trade them instead, you still have going forward :

Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson
Balcers-Norris-Duclair
Formenton-White-Brown
Paul

I think those 10 are going to be on the big team very soon (6 already are)

That leaves 2-3 spots for Chlapik, Abramov, Beaudin, Davidsson, Veronneau, Gruden, Crookshank, Kastelic, Novak, Kelly, Carcone and Nurmi. And I'm not even taking into account any of 8 top-2 rounds draft picks they have in the next 2 drafts (within 18 months)

What is the need for Pinto exactly? Who is going to be much better than in the top-9? What this team needs going forward is upgrades on some of these top-10 guys. Hence, why they should go for homeruns.

If all those forwards turn out the Sens won’t be able to keep them all anyway. They all will want White + type money off their ELc’s and the Sens will need to move some players to manage their cap. Pinto types sliding up can fill gaps of Norris/White type players that we end up have to trade ideally for new prospects/picks to keep a competitive cycle down the road.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

If all those forwards turn out the Sens won’t be able to keep them all anyway. They all will want White + type money off their ELc’s and the Sens will need to move some players to manage their cap. Pinto types sliding up can fill gaps of Norris/White type players that we end up have to trade ideally for new prospects/picks to keep a competitive cycle down the road.

we get it man, you want to trade White

 

[Sweatred]

we get it man, you want to trade White

Cap allows about $3.6/ player - the heard will need thinned if this glut of mid level prospects develops.

 

[aragorn]

I'm still not sure what Pinto's ceiling even is. Guy is apparently a natural athlete and didn't start playing hockey full time until he was 15 but he's already putting up decent numbers (2nd on his team in goals) as a 19 year old playing against 22 & 23 year olds. Has decent size and nice finish from what I've seen, he just self admittedly needs to work on his skating a little bit which is understandable because his main focus hasn't always been hockey. Kaliev is looking good to but Pinto is more of a project who's getting less ice time while playing against harder competition

Good post, there will always be a guy or two that turns out better that other teams passed on as well as us, hell, I wanted Raphael Lavoie instead of Pinto but hopefully he turns into a better player than most thought he would. From the brief viewings I have seen of him & reading the news about him he is already better than I thought before the draft & looks to project as a 3rd liner at the worse & maybe a 2nd liner as best case scenario. I always hope for the best from Sens players.

If all those forwards turn out the Sens won’t be able to keep them all anyway. They all will want White + type money off their ELc’s and the Sens will need to move some players to manage their cap. Pinto types sliding up can fill gaps of Norris/White type players that we end up have to trade ideally for new prospects/picks to keep a competitive cycle down the road.

There you go again thinking you can predict the future. Look at how much money is going out the door by the end of this season from the LTIR & UFA players who most likely are all leaving through trade or contracts ending. Not to mention that the cap keeps going up, not down. Every team is in the same boat, you either pay your best players their market value or trade them if you can't afford it, we see it every yr not just with Ottawa but every team goes through it. And if they lose one or two players they still have a bunch more waiting for their turn. I'm fine with this team not having an elite top line as long as the other three lines are punching or playing above their weight.

IMO White at the least could be a very good 3rd line player & for that to happen Norris would have to move ahead of him to the 2nd line which in a couple of yrs could happen. And if it does it is better for Ottawa that they have a slightly better centre on their 2nd line. Not only does Ottawa have a ton of cap space this yr after all these UFAs & LTIRs leave they should have a ton more space & plenty of money to pay their up & coming young stars. The only concern remains to be the owner & nobody knows what that dickhead is going to do or not do, but I think they should have a much better idea regarding their future after this 2020 draft.

If they are able to draft a centre in this upcoming draft (Byfield) that would give them a clear #1 centre & L. Brown could be their 2nd line centre & one of Norris or White would play 3rd line C or one could move to the wing or get traded for Ottawa to improve elsewhere. Every yr there are countless options as to what they could do with this or that player. They are building a team of good young players now but it takes time & a few very good drafts & that's where they are right now in the building stage. There are a lot of bright spots with this future team you just have to open your eyes to see them, there are three in Belleville in Formenton, Norris & Batherson & three more coming in JBD, Thomson & Pinto, even the goaltending looks promising.

 

[Sweatred]

Good post, there will always be a guy or two that turns out better that other teams passed on as well as us, hell, I wanted Raphael Lavoie instead of Pinto but hopefully he turns into a better player than most thought he would. From the brief viewings I have seen of him & reading the news about him he is already better than I thought before the draft & looks to project as a 3rd liner at the worse & maybe a 2nd liner as best case scenario. I always hope for the best from Sens players.



There you go again thinking you can predict the future. Look at how much money is going out the door by the end of this season from the LTIR & UFA players who most likely are all leaving through trade or contracts ending. Not to mention that the cap keeps going up, not down. Every team is in the same boat, you either pay your best players their market value or trade them if you can't afford it, we see it every yr not just with Ottawa but every team goes through it. And if they lose one or two players they still have a bunch more waiting for their turn. I'm fine with this team not having an elite top line as long as the other three lines are punching or playing above their weight.

IMO White at the least could be a very good 3rd line player & for that to happen Norris would have to move ahead of him to the 2nd line which in a couple of yrs could happen. And if it does it is better for Ottawa that they have a slightly better centre on their 2nd line. Not only does Ottawa have a ton of cap space this yr after all these UFAs & LTIRs leave they should have a ton more space & plenty of money to pay their up & coming young stars. The only concern remains to be the owner & nobody knows what that ******** is going to do or not do, but I think they should have a much better idea regarding their future after this 2020 draft.

If they are able to draft a centre in this upcoming draft (Byfield) that would give them a clear #1 centre & L. Brown could be their 2nd line centre & one of Norris or White would play 3rd line C or one could move to the wing or get traded for Ottawa to improve elsewhere. Every yr there are countless options as to what they could do with this or that player. They are building a team of good young players now but it takes time & a few very good drafts & that's where they are right now in the building stage. There are a lot of bright spots with this future team you just have to open your eyes to see them, there are three in Belleville in Formenton, Norris & Batherson & three more coming in JBD, Thomson & Pinto, even the goaltending looks promising.

that’s my point - if they all outplay white they will cost $5+ which is hard for a club to afford - not to mention hopefully a few forwards at $8+.... and that’s not a insult to White - why wouldn’t a player better than get paid more ?

 

[Xspyrit]

Sure, but I think they like to gamble on players that they think will at least be solid NHL players.

They often pick late risers who seem to have potential that hasn’t been accurately assessed by the league over, likely due it it changing constantly over his draft year.

We don’t know how good of a player this kid can be, but we do know that scoring in Junior is no guarantee of a player even making the NHL, let alone becoming a scorer. They obviously feel like this kid is going to keep rising, and thoughtfully that idea looks pretty good as of right now as he’s having a great rookie season in the NCAA.

I personally don’t want the team to pick guys who they don’t feel will be good shots at making the NHL even if they don’t pan out, in the second round, I’d rather they keep an eye out for late risers and at worst NHL talent that can be flipped if they don’t blow up.

Later rounds are where we seem to take fliers on guys, and we do pretty well.

You guys know that I'm not a blind hater who complains for the sake of whining. I criticize when I find there's a legit concern to do so. The thing that I don't understand is why they have been targeting "quantity". I mean there's only 19 players playing per game on your team and right now all I see is a major major log jam coming up.

I do agree with your point about late risers though. It's true that late bloomers are intriguing but you don't have to target them with every pick though. Sometimes just go with the obvious pick like Anze Kopitar (Muckler days though)

I wanted and was expecting one of Raphael Lavoie, Bobby Brink, Arthur Kaliyev, Jamieson Rees or Egor Afanasyev. Pinto might end up the best of the bunch, who knows? But was he the guy who had the highest ceiling and/or the highest skill level? IMO, since they really CAN AFFORD IT, it's time to take chances and get the guy with the highest possible ceiling even if his probability of success is much lower than some others. No need to take the "safe route" and go the guy with the best ratio of ceiling vs probability because of what I was talking about : the numbers game.

He doesn't need to be a 1st liner, they are drafting one or two of those in the next draft. Pinto will be fine as a 3rd liner & the team will be better for it, hopefully, he is good to fill in occasionally in the top six due to injuries for short periods of time too. Formenton - Norris - Pinto could be a great line to watch in a few yrs.

See my answer below

You'll get your legit 1st liner in June. You need support behind him and the sens have done really well filling their cupboard with all-tool top 9 prospects like Pinto.

Amen. But how many top-9 forwards do we need?

First, I believe these 3 are top-6 forwards : Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson

Then, Beaudin, Sabourin, Kelly, Nurmi, Carcone are depth 4th liners at best IMO

Some of these might be top-6 forwards but most fit in the top-9 definition and you only need 6 more of these "top-9 forwards" :

Balcers-Norris-Duclair
Formenton-White-Abramov
Paul-Pageau-Brown
Namestnikov-Tierney-Chlapik

Then you have Davidsson, Gruden, Crookshank, Veronneau, Kastelic, Novak already drafted, and of course Shane Pinto!

19 guys for 6 spots (if Kastelic/Novak/Veronneau don't have top-9 potential, then it's still 16 guys...)

And then (eight) 8 top-2 round picks in the next 19 months

What's the point in adding potential top-9 forwards? The goal now should be to add elite forwards. Our depth is already extremely good.

If all those forwards turn out the Sens won’t be able to keep them all anyway. They all will want White + type money off their ELc’s and the Sens will need to move some players to manage their cap. Pinto types sliding up can fill gaps of Norris/White type players that we end up have to trade ideally for new prospects/picks to keep a competitive cycle down the road.

They are pretty much all in the same age group and many turn pro at the same time. They have way too many '"forwards to graduate" in the next few years. I don't think Melnyk and his puppet have any idea on how to rebuild. The upcoming draft might save them though and luckily Dorion might get lucky with his Karlsson trade

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

that’s my point - if they all outplay white they will cost $5+ which is hard for a club to afford - not to mention hopefully a few forwards at $8+.

You are suggesting if the club made a mistake on White that they have to overpay everyone else. Where have you seen it work like this before? I am pretty confident even you don't think this and this is just another opportunity to take a shot at White.

 

[Sweatred]

You are suggesting if the club made a mistake on White that they have to overpay everyone else. Where have you seen it work like this before? I am pretty confident even you don't think this and this is just another opportunity to take a shot at White.

Sure - although I don’t know (or think) the Sens agree with me... they decided to pay him that and I assume they will pay similar or betters the same or more ?

 

[aragorn]

that’s my point - if they all outplay white they will cost $5+ which is hard for a club to afford - not to mention hopefully a few forwards at $8+.... and that’s not a insult to White - why wouldn’t a player better than get paid more ?

There are plenty of teams who could use a player like White, you clearly have no faith in him developing into a player while I do. Look at how many teams have a crappy salary on their books, I think if White doesn't pan out the Sens can afford to have one or two crappy salaries on their books, they have a bunch now. Ryan has two more yrs on his contract & when he goes they will have more money to spend on their young stars.

IMO you are just spouting gloom & doom way too early for no reason other than you don't like White & doubt he will be a player in future for this team. You may be right but he could also be a star, who really knows & if you end up right I doubt it's a huge problem for this team & he would be IMO fairly easy to move.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure - although I don’t know (or think) the Sens agree with me... they decided to pay him that and I assume they will pay similar or betters the same or more ?

They will offer to pay them what they think they are worth .. and what they think it will take to sign them if they want to keep them. They absolutely will not entertain.... well you paid White this and my player out produced him and he is therefore worth more ... 2 year old negotiation tactic.

 

[Sweatred]

They will offer to pay them what they think they are worth .. and what they think it will take to sign them if they want to keep them. They absolutely will not entertain.... well you paid White this and my player out produced him and he is therefore worth more ... 2 year old negotiation tactic.

I didn’t know negotiating tactics expired. Do you think a GM would say that internal comps have zero relevance?