Prospect Info: 2019-2020 Prospect Development Tracker

[BigG44]

I'm going to bail on the conversation if you're going to infer emotions that don't exist. I'm not upset or bitter. I was having a discussion with you.

 

[BigG44]

Robertson replaces Perry, Kiviranta replaces Janmark. Seems simple enough to me. No other changes are needed unless too good of an opportunity to pass on comes up.

I agree with that. We were talking about Dallas' upcoming defensive forwards, and this coming season seems to be quite important for Dickinson. If he's not careful, the idea was that he could find himself replaced by a younger, cheaper forward in 2021-22.

 

[LT]

I agree with that. We were talking about Dallas' upcoming defensive forwards, and this coming season seems to be quite important for Dickinson. If he's not careful, the idea was that he could find himself replaced by a younger, cheaper forward in 2021-22.

I agree, but projecting out defensive forward replacements more than a year out seems a bit risky to me.

I think we’ll be fine, so we’re on the same page.

Also no way in hell would I take Faksa over Pageau or Kadri.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Was just randomly scrolling through elite prospects looking through the Windsor Spitfires roster and I come across Curtis Douglas and HOLY S**T is that guy a Man Mountain!
Any chance he becomes a player?
Would be pretty entertaining to see a Chara esque player playing forward, especially if he had hands and a scoring touch.

 

[serp]

Was just randomly scrolling through elite prospects looking through the Windsor Spitfires roster and I come across Curtis Douglas and HOLY S**T is that guy a Man Mountain!
Any chance he becomes a player?
Would be pretty entertaining to see a Chara esque player playing forward, especially if he had hands and a scoring touch.

Stars didn't give him an ELC and he's a free agent now so idk. His skating allways looked awful in the prospect camps and traverse city tournament. All the small skinny prospects skating circles around the massive Douglas allways looked funny as hell.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Stars didn't give him an ELC and he's a free agent now so idk. His skating allways looked awful in the prospect camps and traverse city tournament. All the small skinny prospects skating circles around the massive Douglas allways looked funny as hell.

ah I wonder if he'll get kind an AHL contract similar to Brazeau possibly.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I agree, but projecting out defensive forward replacements more than a year out seems a bit risky to me.

I think we’ll be fine, so we’re on the same page.

Also no way in hell would I take Faksa over Pageau or Kadri.

Yes, this, thanks. There is always someone(s) in every fan base who automatically think the prospects can easily replace a good player who helps the Stars win, i.e., Dickinson and Cogs right now. And again, while Cogs in particular might be let go for salary, draft pick recoup, etc. or even just the need to keep freshening up the roster with younger players it is still not an easy decision for management because to sell tickets, they need to keep winning now and next year. If you let an approaching his prime mid 6 guy like Dickey go, you have to replace him.

A rookie like Ty D won't do it immediately. Better to start him at 10 minutes a night on the 4th line, maybe only at home games if possible to get last change. (Rare, I know) I don't think a good GM like Nill would replace JD without a plan unless he absolutely had to. But why take a winning formula and alter it for no reason? To give a nearly proven to be ready kid a chance maybe. To make some lateral trade just because some idiot fans always think some other guy is substantially better, enough to lose another asset just for the sake of change, is lunacy.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

And yes, I know some of you will say I am a Nill apologist, or whatever. Right now, I think we are entitled to be. I am arguing for results, not against some mythical level of success some fans think would actually be attainable with a new coach, GM, and half a roster of new players replacing the "bums" that got us to the SC Finals, LOL.

 

[M88K]

I don't know how anyone could think a 12th forward, who would be a healthy scratch if not for injuries, belongs in a sentence with good player that is not directly preceeded by the word NOT but alas it is 2020 and here we are

 

[JeffP]

I remember when it was majority for Kyle Connor in here. I'm happy with Gurianov now, but man he teetered on bust for a long time right when Nichushkin was crapping out.

Rough times, glad its in the past.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I don't know how anyone could think a 12th forward, who would be a healthy scratch if not for injuries, belongs in a sentence with good player that is not directly preceeded by the word NOT but alas it is 2020 and here we are

Well, then, you don't read so good. GM's, when competing for the Cup, value knowing what they have over the uncertainty of a youth playing in his first NHL season, especially one like Ty D, who really hasn't even had much AHL experience. Going from juniors to NHL is tougher than you apparently give credit to. Again, next year, it might HAVE to happen, and they will certainly want to bring in a few younger players because its a young man game now, but Nill will fight it as best he can as long as they are trying to win. I am projecting that based on his past records, not my or your feelings about any particular player.

 

[serp]

Here in this article about Harley , the youngest remaining player on a roster , is mentioned why i think teams with alot of young guys might be willing to take Cogliano off our hands if we truely want to move on .

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/meet-the-only-teen-in-the-bubble

"All of us aces were just picking the brains of the older guys and they're helping us out a lot," Harley said. "When Andrew Cogliano was scratched, he would stay with us after practice and run us through drills or conditioning stuff that he likes to do. That's just one example, but everyone has done things like that for us."

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

This quote from Harley caught my eye, mostly because I see the Stars, vs other teams I see in the playoffs, go get a puck in their D zone, and stop it on their stick, try to control it, then fight the possession battle, vs ever blindly throwing it to the blue line or up the boards. Seems like a clear difference between systems to me. It can be frustrating, because they don't always win the battle and the puck stays in the zone, but I guess they figure it would anyway, maybe in worse ways if they just try to chip it out.

"It's so much of a possession-based game now," he said. "A lot of teams dump the puck in and if you can get back and get the puck up to one of your forwards and break it out with possession, you're going to be way better off than if you have to rim it around or chip it out, because they'll bring it right back in. You're going to be in trouble if you can't get it out of your zone. And in transition, if you can get it up quick and in their zone, it's 200-feet from your zone and you're playing offense."

So, yes, some team may want Cogs for that, and young ones or ones who feel they will be competing for the Cup, maybe with few other players with Cup experience. Of course, the Stars fit that bill if they bring up more youth next year, as well. My gut is, with one more year, they will keep him. That said, vets with expiring contracts aren't as valuable as those with 1-2 years left, but more so as rentals next year if the Stars happen to be out of the playoffs (as so many SC losing finalists seem to go) and he would be a great add as veteran fw depth.

 

[M88K]

Well, then, you don't read so good. GM's, when competing for the Cup, value knowing what they have over the uncertainty of a youth playing in his first NHL season, especially one like Ty D, who really hasn't even had much AHL experience. Going from juniors to NHL is tougher than you apparently give credit to. Again, next year, it might HAVE to happen, and they will certainly want to bring in a few younger players because its a young man game now, but Nill will fight it as best he can as long as they are trying to win. I am projecting that based on his past records, not my or your feelings about any particular player.

I read perfectly well thank you very much, and regardless of your opinion on Dellandrea and his NHL readiness or lack thereof . It doesn't excuse using the term "good" with the 13 forward who is/was/should still be a health scratch.

He's been the 12 forward all year and he probably should have been the 13th or 14th.
No GM in there right mind forces a coach to dress a player who has clearly been passed up by younger better players because he's a "known" commodity. Especially when what he's known for is sucking at hockey.
He's already eating healthy scratches at the most important point of a season and would be still if not for injuries and here you are advocating that he's a "good" player and somehow trying to make an argument that is
Equating him being NOT a good player to Dellandrea not being NHL ready.

They are not mutually exclusive.
Cogliano sucks. PERIOD. FULL STOP. He's the opposite of a "good" player and he's now quite literally a player that only plays when the better options are injured.
Dellandrea being nhl ready or not doesn't change that.
Jumping from the CHL to the NHL also has nothing to do with it.

Even if Dellandrea was somehow worse than Cogliano, and being fair thats unlikely, the difference between them isn't repeating a SCF appearance and not making the PO. In no world is a 13th or 14th forward who scores 3goals and less than 15 points a year while being on the ice for tons of goal against that vital to team success.

 

[Smelling Salt]

I remember when it was majority for Kyle Connor in here. I'm happy with Gurianov now, but man he teetered on bust for a long time right when Nichushkin was crapping out.

Rough times, glad its in the past.

I'm happy Guri is contributing (and he has proven me wrong thus far), but Kyle Connor is much better at hockey and it's not really close. You can argue Connor has better linemates and it's true, but it also passes the eye test. Fantastic shooter, good passer and extremely shifty down low/along the boards.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Just for fun, I googled "Cogliano sucks" and nothing came up but your post......

Listen, as I have agreed, most teams would look to bring in a few youth, depending on situation. Others would almost voluntarily trade out the 13th forward for a new version under the theory that old players get older, young players get better. Etc. So, it may happen, and I don't think either any of us would care much, nor would the earth wobble on its axis, LOL.

I still think your Cogs hate is just trolling, and borderline irrational, even by internet standards. No reason to discuss it any more, we get it. As an example:

Even if Dellandrea was somehow worse than Cogliano, and being fair thats unlikely, the difference between them isn't repeating a SCF appearance and not making the PO. In no world is a 13th or 14th forward who scores 3 goals and less than 15 points a year while being on the ice for tons of goal against that vital to team success.

We agree that the 13th forward isn't critical to the team's success. As to your last sentence, as I have pointed out, Cogs was +2 while Blake C and Radek F were -6, in more minutes. While not a be all end all stat, it does show us something. He is good at defending, not so good at scoring goals any more.

 

[M88K]

Just for fun, I googled "Cogliano sucks" and nothing came up but your post......

Listen, as I have agreed, most teams would look to bring in a few youth, depending on situation. Others would almost voluntarily trade out the 13th forward for a new version under the theory that old players get older, young players get better. Etc. So, it may happen, and I don't think either any of us would care much, nor would the earth wobble on its axis, LOL.

I still think your Cogs hate is just trolling, and borderline irrational, even by internet standards. No reason to discuss it any more, we get it. As an example:

Even if Dellandrea was somehow worse than Cogliano, and being fair thats unlikely, the difference between them isn't repeating a SCF appearance and not making the PO. In no world is a 13th or 14th forward who scores 3 goals and less than 15 points a year while being on the ice for tons of goal against that vital to team success.

We agree that the 13th forward isn't critical to the team's success. As to your last sentence, as I have pointed out, Cogs was +2 while Blake C and Radek F were -6, in more minutes. While not a be all end all stat, it does show us something. He is good at defending, not so good at scoring goals any more.

No it doesn't +/- is a useless stat. That has no direct correlation to being good defensively

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Yes, Mikko is slightly better in Rel Corsi, but still negative. Cogs has dropped a lot this year, but both have dropped off over the last 2-3 years, which you would expect with age, with MK dropping 5 points to 4 for Cogs, but still better. Still, and I know you aren't advocating for this, no reason to sign Mikko, IMHO.

 

[Kcb12345]

I'm happy Guri is contributing (and he has proven me wrong thus far), but Kyle Connor is much better at hockey and it's not really close. You can argue Connor has better linemates and it's true, but it also passes the eye test. Fantastic shooter, good passer and extremely shifty down low/along the boards.

If Gurianov scores the Cup winning goal, do we forgive Nill? or hell if the Stars win the Cup, do we forgive him?

 

[Smelling Salt]

If Gurianov scores the Cup winning goal, do we forgive Nill? or hell if the Stars win the Cup, do we forgive him?

I believe the answer is yes

 

[M88K]

If Gurianov scores the Cup winning goal, do we forgive Nill? or hell if the Stars win the Cup, do we forgive him?

No.
How many more chances did he rob this team of because we don't have an elite #1-2 center in Barzal?
Or an elite #1lw in Connor.
Maybe with 1 of those 2 we win it last year, maybe not, but it would have been more likely.
Not to mention prolonging our window by having elite talent to step in and replace our already declining stars.
We'll basically need an entire 1st line in the next few years the way the current one is trending and nobody internally that can step into those shoes

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Ah, some fans. Statistically, Nill's drafting is average, not poor. At this moment, it would be hard to complain with results, but some still do, sometimes endlessly. You compare him to some mythical standard for GM's that doesn't exist. 20-20 hindsight is always perfect.

We can't replay last year in an alternate universe. Maybe even if we had Barzal, he would have been injured, etc. Ditto with prolonging the window. As I think we have discussed before, GM's really have the choice of loading up now, accepting it will cost down the road, or strive for perpetual contending, with less likely hood of results, relying on "just getting in the playoffs and seeing what happens." Of course, that is actually all any GM could do. Stars are hot at the right time, no GM can really control that, or a cold streak either.

 

[M88K]

Ah, some fans. Statistically, Nill's drafting is average, not poor. At this moment, it would be hard to complain with results, but some still do, sometimes endlessly. You compare him to some mythical standard for GM's that doesn't exist. 20-20 hindsight is always perfect.

We can't replay last year in an alternate universe. Maybe even if we had Barzal, he would have been injured, etc. Ditto with prolonging the window. As I think we have discussed before, GM's really have the choice of loading up now, accepting it will cost down the road, or strive for perpetual contending, with less likely hood of results, relying on "just getting in the playoffs and seeing what happens." Of course, that is actually all any GM could do. Stars are hot at the right time, no GM can really control that, or a cold streak either.

Hindsight can only be applied when it comes to prospects if they take the consensus will make the nhl talent and Gurianov becomes an elite player.
Instead they passed on the consensus best player (which also filled a need) not just 1 but 2 of them to take a gamble on a 2nd round talent.
You can't say hindsight when everyone with a shred of hockey knowledge knew Barzal, and Connor were the best 2 players remaining and everyone knew it was a when not an if for becoming NHL players. They were both passed on for a reach that had little more than a good shot and fast skating at his disposal.
Idk or care if he scores the hypothetical winning goal for the cup but I'll never be convinced that replacing him with either of the 2 that we should have picked ends up with a worst result

 

[LT]

Like it or not, this success will see Nill and co. forgiven of many past issues. Winning it all will give them even more leeway.

And frankly, that’s fine. We could’ve gone far last year, we are deep this year, and the window should still be open next year too. After that it’s unclear.

We have a legitimate Cup contending roster. We’re four wins away from accomplishing that goal. Let’s just enjoy it now instead of arguing about what could‘ve gone better.

 

[M88K]

Like it or not, this success will see Nill and co. forgiven of many past issues. Winning it all will give them even more leeway.

And frankly, that’s fine. We could’ve gone far last year, we are deep this year, and the window should still be open next year too. After that it’s unclear.

We have a legitimate Cup contending roster. We’re four wins away from accomplishing that goal. Let’s just enjoy it now instead of arguing about what could‘ve gone better.

All I'm saying is we could have swept Colorado. All their tears would be even saltier