2019-2020 Around the League Thread - Part IV

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Northern Avs Fan

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I don't think either Byram or Makar have the legs to run 28-30 minute nights consistently. Their skating relies on explosion so much that they will wear down and lose some of their edges. In spurts and in playoffs, yeah, they will have to find higher gears at times... but regular season they will be more 22-24 minute guys. I don't think Girard should play 30 minutes, but his skating is the type that allows huge minutes without impacting greatly. He's got the legs to pull those numbers off.

I feel like Byram is pretty smooth with his skating, just lacks top-end speed. If anything holds him back minutes wise it will be his overall talent imo. Which could be great at the NHL level, or not. It’s hard to know yet, not seeing him out of junior hockey.

Physical conditioning is going to be critical for Makar’s game. Similar to MacKinnon, both guys do a lot of stopping and starting. I think as he continues to work on his athleticism and strength for the NHL game that will help.
 

Richard88

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I think come playoff time in their prime, Makar/Byram/Girard will be eating major minutes, but there aren’t many guys these days that that log a lot of ice-time.

Maybe just a change in the game these days, but only 4, or 5 guys in the league play 25 minutes a night.
I wouldn't mind if they each got to run their own pair so we can dominate play from the back end for a full 60 minutes.
  • 18-19 mins each at EV
  • 3-4 mins each on special teams (Makar PP1, Byram PP2/PK, Girard PP2)

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Timmins
Byram --- Johnson

PP1: Makar
PP2: Byram + Girard
PK1: Byram + Johnson
PK2: Graves + Timmins
 

Northern Avs Fan

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I wouldn't mind if they each got to run their own pair so we can dominate play from the back end for a full 60 minutes.
  • 18-19 mins each at EV
  • 3-4 mins each on special teams (Makar PP1, Byram PP2/PK, Girard PP2)

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Timmins
Byram --- Johnson

PP1: Makar
PP2: Byram + Girard
PK1: Byram + Johnson
PK2: Graves + Timmins

It would certainly be a unique approach and that defence would be super well balanced.

The issue I would have is once Makar is in his prime, your kind of wasting him if he’s not getting on the ice more than other pairings. That’s why I’d like to see Girard, or Byram eventually with him.
 

henchman21

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I feel like Byram is pretty smooth with his skating, just lacks top-end speed. If anything holds him back minutes wise it will be his overall talent imo. Which could be great at the NHL level, or not. It’s hard to know yet, not seeing him out of junior hockey.

Physical conditioning is going to be critical for Makar’s game. Similar to MacKinnon, both guys do a lot of stopping and starting. I think as he continues to work on his athleticism and strength for the NHL game that will help.

Makar is very smooth too... it isn't smoothness persay. It is how they generate separation. Makar especially, but Byram to rely on quick twitch burst from edges to gain separation. 1-2 powerful strides and they have their speed. MacKinnon has that same sort of burt. I'm simplifying this too much here, but they get their feet in good positions and burst directly forward. It takes supreme physical gifts to pull off skating like that, but those gifts come at a cost. That burst lessens as they naturally play more minutes. Girard is more of a momentum/perpetual motion sort of skater. He actually isn't great from a dead stop or first stride burst forward. He needs to maintain a bit of speed and make a slight turn to build his separation. It is more about momentum and edges than it is about quick twitch muscles. Because skaters like this are relying less on pure power to generate their separation, they tend to be able to absorb higher minute loads. When you talk about 30 minute defensemen, you aren't talking about these powerful skater types... you're more talking about the Suters who can effortlessly play minutes because they have absurd conservation in their strides. Chabot, Jones, and Josi are other skaters like them.
 

Balthazar

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Makar is very smooth too... it isn't smoothness persay. It is how they generate separation. Makar especially, but Byram to rely on quick twitch burst from edges to gain separation. 1-2 powerful strides and they have their speed. MacKinnon has that same sort of burt. I'm simplifying this too much here, but they get their feet in good positions and burst directly forward. It takes supreme physical gifts to pull off skating like that, but those gifts come at a cost. That burst lessens as they naturally play more minutes. Girard is more of a momentum/perpetual motion sort of skater. He actually isn't great from a dead stop or first stride burst forward. He needs to maintain a bit of speed and make a slight turn to build his separation. It is more about momentum and edges than it is about quick twitch muscles. Because skaters like this are relying less on pure power to generate their separation, they tend to be able to absorb higher minute loads. When you talk about 30 minute defensemen, you aren't talking about these powerful skater types... you're more talking about the Suters who can effortlessly play minutes because they have absurd conservation in their strides. Chabot, Jones, and Josi are other skaters like them.

It's the same principle as a plane that needs a lot more energy to take off than just going at cruising speed.

Mack is surprisingly good at conserving energy though...he picks his bursts wisely. I like to pay attention to that kind of stuff...he's either going very slow or very fast. Fortunately he's not like Nuke or Calvert who basically only have one speed and never stop. :laugh:
 

Northern Avs Fan

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Makar is very smooth too... it isn't smoothness persay. It is how they generate separation. Makar especially, but Byram to rely on quick twitch burst from edges to gain separation. 1-2 powerful strides and they have their speed. MacKinnon has that same sort of burt. I'm simplifying this too much here, but they get their feet in good positions and burst directly forward. It takes supreme physical gifts to pull off skating like that, but those gifts come at a cost. That burst lessens as they naturally play more minutes. Girard is more of a momentum/perpetual motion sort of skater. He actually isn't great from a dead stop or first stride burst forward. He needs to maintain a bit of speed and make a slight turn to build his separation. It is more about momentum and edges than it is about quick twitch muscles. Because skaters like this are relying less on pure power to generate their separation, they tend to be able to absorb higher minute loads. When you talk about 30 minute defensemen, you aren't talking about these powerful skater types... you're more talking about the Suters who can effortlessly play minutes because they have absurd conservation in their strides. Chabot, Jones, and Josi are other skaters like them.

It’s difficult to compare, because how many defenceman really skate like Makar? I’d say none. It’s hard to know where his limits exist in TOI, because there aren’t really any comparables for his explosion as a defenceman.

I hear what you’re saying about that style being more taxing. I can agree with that, and like I said it certainly puts a greater emphasis on physical preparation.

It’s hard for me to say with Byram, because I haven’t seen him enough, but I think Makar’s usage will always be at least somewhat dependent upon the situation within the game.

I’d say he’s average defensively right now and has a chance to become good. But, even if he becomes better in his own zone the drop off between Makar and the next pairing will always be greater on the offensive side than the defensive side. You’ll always see Makar playing more when the Avs are tied, or are behind because he’s a lot better than everyone offensively. Even if Makar becomes the Avs best defensive defenceman, the gap won’t be as large between the next pairing.
 
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henchman21

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It’s difficult to compare, because how many defenceman really skate like Makar? I’d say none. It’s hard to know where his limits exist in TOI, because there aren’t really any comparables for his explosion as a defenceman.

I hear what you’re saying about that style being more taxing. I can agree with that, and like I said it certainly puts a greater emphasis on physical preparation.

It’s hard for me to say with Byram, because I haven’t seen him enough, but I think Makar’s usage will always be at least somewhat dependent upon the situation within the game.

I’d say he’s average defensively right now and has a chance to become good. But, even if he becomes better in his own zone the drop off between Makar and the next pairing will always be greater on the offensive side than the defensive side. You’ll always see Makar playing more when the Avs are tied, or are behind because he’s a lot better than everyone offensively. Even if Makar becomes the Avs best defensive defenceman, the gap won’t be as large between the next pairing.

There are comparables in the past... I'd say Brian Leetch is close. It is just the energy it takes to play that way, more energy is used and in today's NHL there is so much movement expected from defensemen now, that there has to be conservation. It isn't the hockey of the 80s-90s where there were times where the game would slow way down... everybody's fast now the elite have to utilize their plus skating skills more to stand out. We've already seen most if not all of the 28-30+ minutes defensemen die off because of this. Even the elite guys are only at 26. In 3-4 years, I think we will only see 2-4 defensemen above 25 minutes consistently... I'd put my money on 3 of those being Jones, Chabot and Hughes.

With Girard, I don't think he has the extra abilities to be a 30 minute guy. He only really has that sort of skating. There isn't enough offensive punch in his game to get those excess minutes, and the NHL will have to change some rules for him to pile up PK minutes.
 

Northern Avs Fan

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There are comparables in the past... I'd say Brian Leetch is close. It is just the energy it takes to play that way, more energy is used and in today's NHL there is so much movement expected from defensemen now, that there has to be conservation. It isn't the hockey of the 80s-90s where there were times where the game would slow way down... everybody's fast now the elite have to utilize their plus skating skills more to stand out. We've already seen most if not all of the 28-30+ minutes defensemen die off because of this. Even the elite guys are only at 26. In 3-4 years, I think we will only see 2-4 defensemen above 25 minutes consistently... I'd put my money on 3 of those being Jones, Chabot and Hughes.

With Girard, I don't think he has the extra abilities to be a 30 minute guy. He only really has that sort of skating. There isn't enough offensive punch in his game to get those excess minutes, and the NHL will have to change some rules for him to pile up PK minutes.

Actually yeah, Leetch is a pretty good comp for Makar’s stop and go. He could stop and change direction in an instant.

It definitely seems like defence minutes have decreased over the years. I like the three guys you’ve identified for 25+ minutes in the future. Particularly Hughes and Chabot, because I don’t know who else those teams are going to throw out over the boards for big minutes the next couple years. Heiskanen and Dahlin will get big workloads too, I’m sure.

Once the Avs put Girard, or Byram with Makar in a year, or two that pairing will play a lot.
 

Balthazar

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Chabot is a safe pick

In Wednesday night’s outing against the Tampa Bay Lightning, the 22-year-old Ottawa Senators blueliner accomplished a rare feat, one to which only one other rearguard in NHL history can lay claim: Chabot skated more than 37 minutes in a single regular season contest. In the interest of accuracy, his exact total was 37:50, which is the second-highest single-game ice time according to the NHL’s records.

Marathon Men: Chabot’s monster outing one for the ages, but where does it rank all-time? - TheHockeyNews
 

Cousin Eddie

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I’m with the people who think Byram will easily be able to log big minutes. His effortless skating stride resembles Karlsson, Niedermayer, Morrissey, Chabot and Eichel.

Quinn Hughes though might have the most fluid stride I’ve ever seen.

It's the same principle as a plane that needs a lot more energy to take off than just going at cruising speed.

Mack is surprisingly good at conserving energy though...he picks his bursts wisely. I like to pay attention to that kind of stuff...he's either going very slow or very fast. Fortunately he's not like Nuke or Calvert who basically only have one speed and never stop. :laugh:
Mackinnon is just a freak of nature though. I constantly cite that Andy O’Brien article where he talks about Nate doing hill sprints at the same stopwatch time over and over and over even though it’s not supposed to be humanly possible to have that type of endurance.
 
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henchman21

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I’m with the people who think Byram will easily be able to log big minutes. His effortless skating stride resembles Karlsson, Niedermayer, Morrissey, Chabot and Eichel.

Morrissey is a completely different level than Karlsson, Niedermayer, and Chabot. The latter 3 are unquestionably some of the best skaters at the position. Morrissey is a good skater, but not on that elite level... also think that is a good comparable to Byram's skating... a 22-24 minute guy agile and with burst separation. Not elite edges/stride to be efficient enough for 28 minutes (or even 25-26).
 

Balthazar

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Weber has been playing 24-26 min for his whole career he isn't an elite skater, especially now. Doughty 27-29 min and he isn't Niedermayer either.
 

Cousin Eddie

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Morrissey is a completely different level than Karlsson, Niedermayer, and Chabot. The latter 3 are unquestionably some of the best skaters at the position. Morrissey is a good skater, but not on that elite level... also think that is a good comparable to Byram's skating... a 22-24 minute guy agile and with burst separation. Not elite edges/stride to be efficient enough for 28 minutes (or even 25-26).
I’m not talking about their actual skating skills and ability. I’m talking about how efficiently they move their legs. No Morrissey can’t skate like Karlsson and Chabot in caliber, but his effortless stride is very similar.
 
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Cappuccino

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Chabot is a safe pick

In Wednesday night’s outing against the Tampa Bay Lightning, the 22-year-old Ottawa Senators blueliner accomplished a rare feat, one to which only one other rearguard in NHL history can lay claim: Chabot skated more than 37 minutes in a single regular season contest. In the interest of accuracy, his exact total was 37:50, which is the second-highest single-game ice time according to the NHL’s records.

Marathon Men: Chabot’s monster outing one for the ages, but where does it rank all-time? - TheHockeyNews

Melnyk might be thinking that if he needs to pay his star players, he better make sure he squeezes every possible minute out of them...
 

ricardfromage

"You wanted the Germs, you get em"
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Why not trade down to #4 and draft Sanderson or Drysdale? It's pretty clear that the Kings were focussed on defense pre-lottery.

Everyone knows at this point that Yzerman wants Stutzle so he'd be all over that. It makes a lot of sense for everyone.

Yep. Have also thought about that possibility. The thing is that in the end neither Drysdale or Sanderson are close to the same level of talent and drive that BB is and I believe that he (BB) will dwarf those two guys throughout their careers. Byrum I believe will be better than Makar (another great young player without question) and become your #1 D in short order imo. Anyways thanks to everyone who responded and best of luck guys.
 
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