2019-20 UEFA Champions League Draw

[bluesfan94]

Well Liverpool and Chelsea make sense since they won a major trophy last year.

I can grant that, although we run into the unenviable conclusion that Liverpool's trophy would be illegitimate because they wouldn't have been in the competition.

 

[Aladyyn]

Which is all well and good. I don't necessarily disagree. But it does mean that your argument is shredded.

Concessions are already being made to accomodate the top leagues being better and it's enough. That's the argument.

 

[S E P H]

All that being said, I like that smaller teams make the CL. It's fun for those fans and financially beneficial for those leagues.

They tend to be the richest clubs in their respected leagues though, so much is it honestly helping the football league of the nation when mini-PSG's pretty much win every single title for decades'?

 

[bluesfan94]

Concessions are already being made to accomodate the top leagues being better and it's enough. That's the argument.

Right, but you're just saying arbitrarily that it's enough. And your evidence is that it's called the Champions League. Well, the easy counterpoint is that your argument is silly because it's not just champions, so then all I'd have to do is say the concessions aren't enough and well, no one's provided anything except that we'd disagree.

 

[Live in the Now]

No, this is stupid logic. If someone's debating the standard, then saying that they can piss off because they didn't meet the standard makes no sense.

The team didn’t meet the standard and the team can piss off.

The only reason we are even debating the standard in the first place is because one persons team consistently failed to meet that standard in the last few seasons. That is never enough reason to simply change the way that something is.

 

[bluesfan94]

They tend to be the richest clubs in their respected leagues though, so much is it honestly helping the football league of the nation when mini-PSG's pretty much win every single title for decades'?

That doesn't really happen as much as you think. I mean, in some countries, yes, but not all. Plus, the money trickles throughout the league/country. Whether that's through investment in academies, buying players from other teams, or even raising the coefficient for the league, it helps more than cutting them out would.

 

[bluesfan94]

The team didn’t meet the standard and the team can piss off.

The only reason we are even debating the standard in the first place is because one persons team consistently failed to meet that standard in the last few seasons.

It's not like this is the first time that the standard has ever been questioned. I mean, yeah, that's why it got brought up this time. And it's been all of three years in the past 5. Or, to put it in other words, one more than Liverpool. Regardless, discussions about the relative minnows of Champs League aren't that rare, and you'd be a lot less of a pissant about it if someone else was bringing up the same conversation.

Just being a dick isn't going to stop people from having their takes or prevent derailing of threads (although this conversation is on topic). Rather, it encourages it.

 

[S E P H]

That doesn't really happen as much as you think. I mean, in some countries, yes, but not all. Plus, the money trickles throughout the league/country. Whether that's through investment in academies, buying players from other teams, or even raising the coefficient for the league, it helps more than cutting them out would.

I get more of LITN's statement where playing against the best teams can develop players, but not on the financial side. Like look at Croatian First Football League. Only four teams have won it since 1992 which are Zagreb, Hajduk, Rijeka, and NK. Sure they went to the finals last WC, but that was on the back from a generational player playing out of his mind. After Modric retires, Croatia is going down to the abyss where they will join Greece.

 

[bluesfan94]

I get more of LITN's statement where playing against the best teams can develop players, but not on the financial side. Like look at Croatian First Football League. Only four teams have won it since 1992 which are Zagreb, Hajduk, Rijeka, and NK. Sure they went to the finals last WC, but that was on the back from a generational player playing out of his mind. After Modric retires, Croatia is going down to the abyss where they will join Greece.

I mean, it's not like they only have Modric or have been poor in the past. @HajdukSplit could speak better on this, but I don't think that's a good example in the slightest

 

[YNWA14]

It's not like this is the first time that the standard has ever been questioned. I mean, yeah, that's why it got brought up this time. And it's been all of three years in the past 5. Or, to put it in other words, one more than Liverpool. Regardless, discussions about the relative minnows of Champs League aren't that rare, and you'd be a lot less of a pissant about it if someone else was bringing up the same conversation.

Just being a dick isn't going to stop people from having their takes or prevent derailing of threads (although this conversation is on topic). Rather, it encourages it.

This is the best part. Arsenal have never won the CL in the history of their existence but the challenge is that they'll be 'more competitive' as though that makes a difference. What's one stepping stone slotting in for another?

 

[Live in the Now]

It's not like this is the first time that the standard has ever been questioned. I mean, yeah, that's why it got brought up this time. And it's been all of three years in the past 5. Or, to put it in other words, one more than Liverpool. Regardless, discussions about the relative minnows of Champs League aren't that rare, and you'd be a lot less of a pissant about it if someone else was bringing up the same conversation.

What makes you say that? It’s more that the idea of a league submitting 30% of their teams to the Champions League is absolutely absurd. Then, you throw in that nobody has explained how it is beneficial to UEFA’s member countries to allow something like that.

Maybe you’re used to defending stupid ideas or something, because now it’s starting to feel like you’re lashing out. I respond to stupid ideas the same way no matter who has them.

I get more of LITN's statement where playing against the best teams can develop players, but not on the financial side. Like look at Croatian First Football League. Only four teams have won it since 1992 which are Zagreb, Hajduk, Rijeka, and NK. Sure they went to the finals last WC, but that was on the back from a generational player playing out of his mind. After Modric retires, Croatia is going down to the abyss where they will join Greece.

No, because the money trickles down through their league and enables them to develop players. This is not hard to figure out. Your ideas suggest that their leagues should be killed for your satisfaction because a team can’t get the job done in their own league.

 

[bluesfan94]

This is the best part. Arsenal have never won the CL in the history of their existence but the challenge is that they'll be 'more competitive' as though that makes a difference. What's one stepping stone slotting in for another?

I assume you'd be in favor of swapping Liverpool for Blackburn in the Premier League, then? And before you make the argument about winning English first league, Arsenal's won a European Cup

 

[Savi]

No, because the money trickles down through their league and enables them to develop players

@HajdukSplit probably will tell you it only trickles down into the pockets of a pair of corrupt brothers

 

[S E P H]

No, because the money trickles down through their league and enables them to develop players. This is not hard to figure out. Your ideas suggest that their leagues should be killed for your satisfaction because a team can’t get the job done in their own league.

Explain how it trickles down through the league, using Croatia as an example why the hell would Dynamo Zagreb want to buy players from a direct rival such as Hajduk Split? Similar to Bayern unsettling players at Dortmund which they can snatch up from a direct competition, it's either you don't buy players from rivals like Arsenal/Spurs or you conduct shady AF tactics to unsettle players and agents to join you.

 

[bluesfan94]

What makes you say that? It’s more that the idea of a league submitting 30% of their teams to the Champions League is absolutely absurd. Then, you throw in that nobody has explained how it is beneficial to UEFA’s member countries to allow something like that.

Maybe you’re used to defending stupid ideas or something, because now it’s starting to feel like you’re lashing out. I respond to stupid ideas the same way no matter who has them.

Would you be bitching just as much if someone suggested Croatia or Switzerland have another team? I seem to recall you saying you want to give smaller leagues more teams

No, I'm not used to defending stupid ideas. I'm just tired of people being dicks and then being shocked that the other person responds and complaining about it.

 

[YNWA14]

I assume you'd be in favor of swapping Liverpool for Blackburn in the Premier League, then? And before you make the argument about winning English first league, Arsenal's won a European Cup

You mean the predecessor to the Europa League? Not really relevant to this discussion. Not to mention this tournament/cup is not a domestic league and Liverpool have won plenty of top domestic honors. I'm also not the one lobbying for an undeserving team to get a spot in the CL.

Though I can see the humour in someone saying Arsenal of all teams deserves a spot over another team in the CL because they have no chance of winning it, when Arsenal at its peak even has never won any iteration of the trophy.

 

[Aladyyn]

Explain how it trickles down through the league, using Croatia as an example why the hell would Dynamo Zagreb want to buy players from a direct rival such as Hajduk Split? Similar to Bayern unsettling players at Dortmund which they can snatch up from a direct competition, it's either you don't buy players from rivals like Arsenal/Spurs or you conduct shady AF tactics to unsettle players and agents to join you.

Most leagues have more than 2 teams.

 

[bluesfan94]

Explain how it trickles down through the league, using Croatia as an example why the hell would Dynamo Zagreb want to buy players from a direct rival such as Hajduk Split? Similar to Bayern unsettling players at Dortmund which they can snatch up from a direct competition, it's either you don't buy players from rivals like Arsenal/Spurs or you conduct shady AF tactics to unsettle players and agents to join you.

Again, Croatia isn't your best example. Dinamo Zagreb routinely spend money on players from other Croatian teams.

So has Young Boys in Switzerland, etc

 

[bluesfan94]

You mean the predecessor to the Europa League? Not really relevant to this discussion. Not to mention this tournament/cup is not a domestic league and Liverpool have won plenty of top domestic honors. I'm also not the one lobbying for an undeserving team to get a spot in the CL.

Though I can see the humour in someone saying Arsenal of all teams deserves a spot over another team in the CL because they have no chance of winning it, when Arsenal at its peak even has never won any iteration of the trophy.

I guess I fail to see the relevance unless, again, you're willing to say the same about Liverpool deserving a spot in the EPL

 

[Live in the Now]

Explain how it trickles down through the league, using Croatia as an example why the hell would Dynamo Zagreb want to buy players from a direct rival such as Hajduk Split? Similar to Bayern unsettling players at Dortmund which they can snatch up from a direct competition, it's either you don't buy players from rivals like Arsenal/Spurs or you conduct shady AF tactics to unsettle players and agents to join you.

This kind of post is so hard to respond to because of how uninformed it is. Teams like Dinamo are buying players from teams like Lokomotiva and Gorica, from Korea, from Poland. Nobody’s talking about Bayern f***ing Munich. This system keeps football afloat, and the only better way is to go back to the old way where only league champions qualify.

 

[Burner Account]

Sounds like SEPH wants the Super League tbh

 

[Live in the Now]

Would you be *****ing just as much if someone suggested Croatia or Switzerland have another team? I seem to recall you saying you want to give smaller leagues more teams

Nope, didn’t say that. What I said was that more champions should be guaranteed spots without doing qualifiers. If that means fourth place big league teams don’t get spots, or have to face each other in qualifiers where only one gets a group stage spot, so be it. Switzerland already does get two teams by the way, and they both have to do qualifiers. Their champion shouldn’t.

Anyway, if Croatia did get another team, that wouldn’t be 30% of their teams in the competition, which is the idea I have a problem with.

Also, I think this thread has been derailed way too much, so I’m done with it. Some of the people whose teams are in this were interested in talking about the draw, and not teams that aren’t in it. One persons attempt to make Arsenal and himself the center of attention shouldn’t have led to this, and if we wonder in the future why so many people hate Arsenal we can point to this.

 

[Power Man]

 

[bluesfan94]

Nope, didn’t say that. What I said was that more champions should be guaranteed spots without doing qualifiers. If that means fourth place big league teams don’t get spots, or have to face each other in qualifiers where only one gets a group stage spot, so be it. Switzerland already does get two teams by the way, and they both have to do qualifiers. Their champion shouldn’t.

Anyway, if Croatia did get another team, that wouldn’t be 30% of their teams in the competition, which is the idea I have a problem with.

Also, I think this thread has been derailed way too much, so I’m done with it. Some of the people whose teams are in this were interested in talking about the draw, and not teams that aren’t in it. One persons attempt to make Arsenal and himself the center of attention shouldn’t have led to this, and if we wonder in the future why so many people hate Arsenal we can point to this.

Croatia and Switzerland getting another team would push them both to 30%.

And yeah, this is all Arsenal fans doing this. Not the myriad of other fans responding and continuing the conversation. This is the holier-than-thou do-no-wrong attitude that's annoying. I mean, shit, we have as many Liverpool fans in this conversation as Arsenal fans and the Liverpool fans are the ones calling shit stupid, trolling Arsenal fans, and launching attacks. But yeah, it's Arsenal fans' fault. There are a handful of obnoxious Arsenal fans to be sure, but there are just as many - if not more - insufferable Liverpool fans

 

[Live in the Now]

Croatia and Switzerland getting another team would push them both to 30%

Good thing I don’t agree with that then.

And yeah, this is all Arsenal fans doing this.

Fan

As for the rest, you don’t see anyone else whining for more teams when their team doesn’t cut the mustard. You also don’t see anyone else bringing up teams from other leagues when they know nothing about their transfer business and where the money goes.