Speculation: 2019-20 Trade thread (NOT Tank Talk)

[cheesymc]

I feel like some people feel like Getzlaf is going to find the fountain of youth, manson is going to turn the clock back 3 year.

The team really does need a full rebuild, rakell holds a ton of value and could be a great piece to sell pretty high on specially considering the cap situation.

I really am hit or miss with Henrique... if we could get solid value for him id be down if not im also okay with him being a leader/locker guy to help with the young roster.

Manson likely wont be moved as the team loves him and wouldn't sell him for anything practical.

Cant see all 3 moves happen, but I wouldn't be mad if 1 of them were moved.

Henrique over-achieved goal scoring last season and I don't expect him to do that again. He is a good veteran but we need should trade him and Rakell if we get a good offer. There won't be many takers for Henrique and it would be for another overpaid or underachieving veteran so we might be stuck with him.

I also don't see Manson turning it around, but we need to keep him as hes one of our leaders... hopefully his poor play was due to injuries and this long break helps him.

 

[Paul4587]

Just cause Manson had a good year 3 years ago doesn’t mean a teams going to unload their top prospects for him.

His stats were heavily influenced by lindholm, Manson might be the most over rated dmen in the league

I think the issue is you’re vastly underrating Manson both in terms of his on ice ability and his perceived value around the league. That and you’re placing a bit too much value on the worth of unproven prospects.

I had issues with Manson last season and was pretty critical of him but he’s not suddenly some average number 4-5 guy.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think the issue is you’re vastly underrating Manson both in terms of his on ice ability and his perceived value around the league. That and you’re placing a bit too much value on the worth of unproven prospects.

I had issues with Manson last season and was pretty critical of him but he’s not suddenly some average number 4-5 guy.

I can do that too.
You are overating Mansons on ice ability and value
You are underrating prospects like Sandins value

If you think the leafs are interested in moving Sandin for Manson, then you are just unaware of how other teams view their assets... hell they prob would have a tough time giving us liljegren for manson. Sandin/Liljegren are pretty important piece on the leafs blue line.... and I don't think manson has proven enough to really justify making that move, he is a complimentary shutdown guy with an edge to his game(#4).

 

[Paul4587]

I can do that too.
You are overating Mansons on ice ability and value
You are underrating prospects like Sandins value

If you think the leafs are interested in moving Sandin for Manson, then you are just unaware of how other teams view their assets... hell they prob would have a tough time giving us liljegren for manson. Sandin/Liljegren are pretty important piece on the leafs blue line.... and I don't think manson has proven enough to really justify making that move, he is a complimentary shutdown guy with an edge to his game(#4).

I’m going to compare it to the last trade we made with the Leafs when a defensive prospect was moved for a top 4 Dman. We traded Jake Gardiner and a 4th (and Lupul but at the time he wasn’t worth much, maybe he had marginally positive value) for Francois Beauchemin in 2011.

Comparing those pieces to the present day:

Beauchemin with the Leafs was worse than Manson has been for us the past two seasons. Since leaving Anaheim he had regressed into an ok number 4 with little offensive production. He only had a year and a bit of term and was 31 at the time - 3 years older than Manson is now.

Gardiner was a great prospect at the time - similar calibre to Sandin, probably slightly ahead - at 20 yrs old he was a PPG player at College and he came in the next season and put up a really good rookie year on a thin Toronto d core.

So yeah if we are trading a better, younger version with more term than Beauchemin in Manson then I sure as hell would want a prospect close to Gardiner plus a bit more to offset the difference between Manson and Beauchemin.

 

[Gliff]

I’m going to compare it to the last trade we made with the Leafs when a defensive prospect was moved for a top 4 Dman. We traded Jake Gardiner and a 4th (and Lupul but at the time he wasn’t worth much, maybe he had marginally positive value) for Francois Beauchemin in 2011.

Comparing those pieces to the present day:

Beauchemin with the Leafs was worse than Manson has been for us the past two seasons. Since leaving Anaheim he had regressed into an ok number 4 with little offensive production. He only had a year and a bit of term and was 31 at the time - 3 years older than Manson is now.

Gardiner was a great prospect at the time - similar calibre to Sandin, probably slightly ahead - at 20 yrs old he was a PPG player at College and he came in the next season and put up a really good rookie year on a thin Toronto d core.

So yeah if we are trading a better, younger version with more term than Beauchemin in Manson then I sure as hell would want a prospect close to Gardiner plus a bit more to offset the difference between Manson and Beauchemin.

You don't think Lil and a 1st is more then Gardiner and a 4th?

I don't think Manson is being undervalued here. He is a 28 year old #3/4 defensemen with 2 years left on his contract. The return of a prospect that would be our best defensive prospect and a late first seems reasonable. What are you hoping to get?

 

[Paul4587]

You don't think Lil and a 1st is more then Gardiner and a 4th?

I don't think Manson is being undervalued here. He is a 28 year old #3/4 defensemen with 2 years left on his contract. The return of a prospect that would be our best defensive prospect and a late first seems reasonable. What are you hoping to get?

No, I don’t see Liljegren as being nearly as good a prospect as Gardiner was. He’s a nice prospect but has flaws and really struggled in both the NHL and at times in the AHL even last season. If all goes right he’s a second pair guy (more likely though he’s a third pair guy).

As I said from Toronto I want Sandin as the centrepiece. Despite his flaws I don’t want to see Manson dealt so if he is I want fair value for him.

 

[MMC]

I can do that too.
You are overating Mansons on ice ability and value
You are underrating prospects like Sandins value

If you think the leafs are interested in moving Sandin for Manson, then you are just unaware of how other teams view their assets... hell they prob would have a tough time giving us liljegren for manson. Sandin/Liljegren are pretty important piece on the leafs blue line.... and I don't think manson has proven enough to really justify making that move, he is a complimentary shutdown guy with an edge to his game(#4).

So you think it's debatable how much better Fowler is than Montour, and you think Manson is a 4/5?

 

[robbieboy3686]

So you think it's debatable how much better Fowler is than Montour, and you think Manson is a 4/5?

Manson had a baby this year, also saw him way to much on his social media platforms. Have a feeling he has been doing some soul searching ( and wouldn’t be surprised if his dad and him have spoken about the fact, that if he wants to keep his family in sunny Oc. He better start to pull his weight and maybe fight a guy or 2 like he used to) he bounces back for us this year no doubt. People who call rakell lazy or uninterested, the guy started his career with us( when we were a top contender ) I think it’s been difficult for him to deal with that not being the case anymore. He bounces back also.

 

[AngelDuck]

I don’t know, I could kind of see it going either way. On one hand, I really fear that we have too many guys between 25-30 that have been too comfortable with the living in Newport Beach lifestyle and playing house with their wives/girlfriends, etc. I don’t know this to be the case for sure but it’s definitely a legit possibility.

On the other hand, there is still the argument that they haven’t had a full season without Carlyle, they’ve been playing on a terrible team so their numbers are suppressed and we’d be selling low.

I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing the band getting broken up a bit more though. I hate the idea of having guys that are just here to live by the beach. It’s a country club atmosphere that became toxic for the Kings in recent years I think. The more we can get young hungry players in here to challenge those guys, the better

 

[DuckRogers10]

Not going to get into a back and forth with you but we'll see what the future holds. Manson is what every team dreams about come playoff time.

Teams dream about having a dman who happens to be a turnover machine in the playoffs?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

So you think it's debatable how much better Fowler is than Montour, and you think Manson is a 4/5?

I said 4, average 4 with edge to his game.

And yes the difference between montour and Fowler in terms of value is debatable.

montour got a 1st + okay prospect, I imagine Fowler would get a higher 1st + better prospect, maybe more depending on prospect and pick

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I’m going to compare it to the last trade we made with the Leafs when a defensive prospect was moved for a top 4 Dman. We traded Jake Gardiner and a 4th (and Lupul but at the time he wasn’t worth much, maybe he had marginally positive value) for Francois Beauchemin in 2011.

Comparing those pieces to the present day:

Beauchemin with the Leafs was worse than Manson has been for us the past two seasons. Since leaving Anaheim he had regressed into an ok number 4 with little offensive production. He only had a year and a bit of term and was 31 at the time - 3 years older than Manson is now.

Gardiner was a great prospect at the time - similar calibre to Sandin, probably slightly ahead - at 20 yrs old he was a PPG player at College and he came in the next season and put up a really good rookie year on a thin Toronto d core.

So yeah if we are trading a better, younger version with more term than Beauchemin in Manson then I sure as hell would want a prospect close to Gardiner plus a bit more to offset the difference between Manson and Beauchemin.

I think Sandin is a better prospect than Gardiner, and I think liljegren is comparable.

I would argue liljegren + 1st >> Gardiner + 4th.

and all that is irrelevant cause trade values arnt based off past trades, or I’d trade Manson for Rantanen or marner

if you want to argue that it doesn’t make sense to trade Manson cause he won’t return what you want, that’s fine I can accept that.

 

[dracom]

I said 4, average 4 with edge to his game.

And yes the difference between montour and Fowler in terms of value is debatable.

montour got a 1st + okay prospect, I imagine Fowler would get a higher 1st + better prospect, maybe more depending on prospect and pick

no, you brought up trade value and said they did not have a ton of difference in value, but then also say Fowler has more later on. You then said Fowler is better but by how much is debatable. You may have intended to be talking about trade value, but that is not what that sentence means. And just because it was on the trade board does not mean only trade value gets talked about; plenty of conversations stem from which player is better overall compared to another. And it is not debatable how much better Fowler is than Montour, at all.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

no, you brought up trade value and said they did not have a ton of difference in value, but then also say Fowler has more later on. You then said Fowler is better but by how much is debatable. You may have intended to be talking about trade value, but that is not what that sentence means. And just because it was on the trade board does not mean only trade value gets talked about; plenty of conversations stem from which player is better overall compared to another. And it is not debatable how much better Fowler is than Montour, at all.

It is debatable depending how you see montour in either case, but I was referring to trade value in the post you are talking about like I said before

 

[Hockey Duckie]

When Manson started off the season with Lindholm they helped post a 2.27 goals against in 11 games. Then injuries happened.

I'll give Manson a pass with his play coming back from injury. He came back earlier than I thought, but he looked rusty at the same time. Still, he was vastly better than Guhle and Larsson last year, which is sad. (I really hoped Larsson would have taken the next step last year.) This extended time off should be great for all of our defensemen as they can heal longer. Remember how Teemu needed that a year off for his hip, which coincided with the hockey lockout of 2004-05.

I'm not in favor of moving any of our top-5 (Lindholm, Manson, Fowler, Gudz, and Djoos). Our defense is far more superior than our forward corps. We've made the playoffs with a strong defense, amazing goal tending, and a pedestrian offense before under GM Murray. In 2017, we ranked 18th in GF (235 goals), 28th on the PP (38 ppg), 4th in GA (216 goals against), and 9th on PPGA (46 ppga) as well as 5th on PK efficiency at 83.2% on our way to the playoffs.

The Ducks have fringe NHL defensemen prospects in Larsson and Guhle. We have a RHD prospect coming to the AHL in Axel. Then we have two 2019 defensive draftees being praised in LaCombe and Thrun. We could be adding more this draft. I haven't included Mahura or Benoit either.

 

[Easternbull]

What would you guys be willing to trade to the Jest for Patrik Laine?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What would you guys be willing to trade to the Jest for Patrik Laine?

wut lol

laine would look good w/ Zegras or potentially diff center from this draft but I assume it would cost 1 of those pieces. I don't even know what the jets really need.

 

[Gliff]

What would you guys be willing to trade to the Jest for Patrik Laine?

Not the type of deal the Ducks should be making. Unless the value is crazy.

 

[tomd]

Teams dream about having a dman who happens to be a turnover machine in the playoffs?

Muzzin is a very fair comparable to Manson and the return will be roughly the same. Muzzin was a gaff machine in LA as well.

 

[Paul4587]

Muzzin is a very fair comparable to Manson and the return will be roughly the same. Muzzin was a gaff machine in LA as well.

Muzzin was two years older than Manson now with less term. Ability wise they’re similar. Manson is also a RHS. For those reasons Manson should yield a decent amount more in a return than Muzzin did.

 

[cheesymc]

I was looking at trades with teams in the east, would you guys pull the trigger for these rebuild ideas? Would this help us in the long run?

Scenario 1: Rakell, Larsson, Backes, 1st (31st) for Subban, Ty Smith, Woods, 1st (17th)
-This saves NJD nearly 3.5 million next season, and rids themselves of Subban and Wood's disappointing contracts, and adds to their offense. They get to reallocate money for another defenseman that can fit better than Subban did last year. Ducks get futures with Ty and move up with their second 1st round pick while getting veteran depth. Ducks have cap space while not competing so they can take on more salary, like half of Backes' $4.5M contract, maybe saving NJD nearly 6 million next season. Maybe Subban can turn it around, or his contract would be an enormous albatross for three seasons during the rebuild... that's the gamble. Would the futures be worth it?

Scenario 2: Henrique for Gostisbehere
-Gives the Ducks a PP QB and opportunities for our prospects, he is also younger and on a cheaper contract. I just see Henrique in a Flyer uniform and it seems like they aren't utilizing Ghost as much because they have Provorov and other upcoming prospects. I think we would be selling Henrique high as I don't think he will perform as well as he did this year.

Scenario 3: Rakell, Lindholm, Larsson/prospect, 1st (31st) for Ekblad, 1st (14th)
- I doubt Florida trades Ekblad, but it sounds like Florida might be willing to rebuild after under performing this season (I didnt realize that they had so many NTC contracts). I don't think fans from either side would think this is fair and would want more. Ekblad would give the ducks a #1 dman that would be a legit triggerman that can finally improve the power play. Lindholm would help Florida shut down other teams and help them win more consistently, and Rakell is the adder to get someone like Ekblad, but the Ducks can maybe move up to get a better prospect moving up in the draft. Ekblad is also younger than Rakell and Lindholm by 2/3 years so he fits our rebuild time table.

 

[cheesymc]

Not the type of deal the Ducks should be making. Unless the value is crazy.

No thanks, he would require alot of prospects and hes too one-dimensional. For the big return, I'd like a dynamic star player that is also a leader.

 

[Static]

Any trade the ducks make needs to have the expansion draft in mind. No sense in trading for a player we can't even protect.

 

[tomd]

Muzzin was two years older than Manson now with less term. Ability wise they’re similar. Manson is also a RHS. For those reasons Manson should yield a decent amount more in a return than Muzzin did.

Fair enough...just wanted to dispel the notion that Manson won't have high value if the Ducks were to shop him.

 

[Gliff]

I was looking at trades with teams in the east, would you guys pull the trigger for these rebuild ideas? Would this help us in the long run?

Scenario 1: Rakell, Larsson, Backes, 1st (31st) for Subban, Ty Smith, Woods, 1st (17th)
-This saves NJD nearly 3.5 million next season, and rids themselves of Subban and Wood's disappointing contracts, and adds to their offense. They get to reallocate money for another defenseman that can fit better than Subban did last year. Ducks get futures with Ty and move up with their second 1st round pick while getting veteran depth. Ducks have cap space while not competing so they can take on more salary, like half of Backes' $4.5M contract, maybe saving NJD nearly 6 million next season. Maybe Subban can turn it around, or his contract would be an enormous albatross for three seasons during the rebuild... that's the gamble. Would the futures be worth it?

Scenario 2: Henrique for Gostisbehere
-Gives the Ducks a PP QB and opportunities for our prospects, he is also younger and on a cheaper contract. I just see Henrique in a Flyer uniform and it seems like they aren't utilizing Ghost as much because they have Provorov and other upcoming prospects. I think we would be selling Henrique high as I don't think he will perform as well as he did this year.

Scenario 3: Rakell, Lindholm, Larsson/prospect, 1st (31st) for Ekblad, 1st (14th)
- I doubt Florida trades Ekblad, but it sounds like Florida might be willing to rebuild after under performing this season (I didnt realize that they had so many NTC contracts). I don't think fans from either side would think this is fair and would want more. Ekblad would give the ducks a #1 dman that would be a legit triggerman that can finally improve the power play. Lindholm would help Florida shut down other teams and help them win more consistently, and Rakell is the adder to get someone like Ekblad, but the Ducks can maybe move up to get a better prospect moving up in the draft. Ekblad is also younger than Rakell and Lindholm by 2/3 years so he fits our rebuild time table.

No interest in Subban. He is 31 already. The guy is gonna be getting up there by the time the Ducks are good again. Not to mention the drop in his play recently...

Doesn't Gostisbehere play on the left?

I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole and I doubt Florida has any interest.
Assuming Rakell has mid 1st + good prospect value it works out to this.

Lindholm
31st
Good prospect
Larsson/prospect

for

Ekblad

Ya that doesn't seem like a good deal to me.