2019/20 Roster Thread XXII

[Curufinwe]

Couturier must be thrilled that AV has demoted him in favour of Hayes

Hayes is on PP1 ahead of him, but Couturier was on PP2 quite often last year, too.

At ES so far it is:

Couturier - 15:36
Hayes - 15:34

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Jtown]

Def matches the eye test , JVR has been one of our best. Bottom 5 at least is all our bottom 6 and lowest paid forwards.

Provy has looked much improved. Braun does suttle little things that have really helped provy out. Provy's stickhandling seems to be much better. That sequence last night where he went coast to coast was the player we all hoped we were getting when we drafted him.

 

[Rebels57]

Hayes is on PP1 ahead of him, but Couturier was on PP2 quite often last year, too.

At ES so far it is:

Couturier - 15:36
Hayes - 15:34

NHL.com - Stats

Honestly, it's just a terrible decision. His lineup management has been atrocious so far.

 

[Starat327]

Hayes is on PP1 ahead of him, but Couturier was on PP2 quite often last year, too.

At ES so far it is:

Couturier - 15:36
Hayes - 15:34

NHL.com - Stats

I understand what you're saying, but theres no world where couturier shouldnt be seeing markedly more minutes at ES than Kevin Hayes. I know thats going to come off as me being negative toward Hayes (and its not intended. I didnt like the price, but the player I am perfectly fine with). Couturier doesnt need to have his minutes cut, he is our best all around player, bar none. Generally speaking, its a good idea to play your better players more if you want to win (within reason, obviously).

 

[Starat327]

Honestly, it's just a terrible decision. His lineup management has been atrocious so far.

I knew it wouldnt take you long to come around, young grasshopper.

 

[Rebels57]

I knew it wouldnt take you long to come around, young grasshopper.

I was angry over the lines and PP the day before the season when they were using them in practice. Hayes being used as 1C and the PP being completely neutered has just put it all over the top.

 

[Curufinwe]

The worst part of the lineup management is definitely overplaying Sanheim. 20:56 a game for a guy who wasn't even good enough to get a long-term deal.


Against Dallas on Saturday I'd like to see this lineup.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Twarynski-Raffl-Pitlick
Stewart

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Niskanen
Morin-Ghost
Hagg

I'm not a fan of Raffl playing in the middle, but thanks to the Stewart signing they can't recall an actual center like Rubtsov or Vorobyev to play 4C unless they demote Twarynski (which would be harsh) or waive someone.

 

[Rebels57]

The worst part of the lineup management is definitely overplaying Sanheim. 20:56 a game for a guy who wasn't even good enough to get a long-term deal.


Against Dallas on Saturday I'd like to see this lineup.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Twarynski-Raffl-Pitlick
Stewart

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Niskanen
Morin-Ghost
Hagg

I'm not a fan of Raffl playing in the middle, but thanks to the Stewart signing they can't recall an actual center like Rubtsov or Vorobyev to play 4C unless they demote Twarynski (which would be harsh) or waive someone.

You're right in that the D minute distribution actually haven't been bad. Neither has the PK.

It's almost like Mike Yeo is doing a good job and Michel Therrien is doing a really bad job.

 

[bennysflyers16]

And boy we need Nolan back , is he he skating full time now ?

 

[Striiker]

You're right in that the D minute distribution actually haven't been bad. Neither has the PK.

It's almost like Mike Yeo is doing a good job and Michel Therrien is doing a really bad job.

It's been awful

 

[Tripod]

Through 4 games

xGF%
JVR 70.8%
TK 68.9%
Coots 66.2%
Giroux 63.0%
Provorov 62.2%
....
bottom 5
Pitlick 27.8%
Raffl 38.9%
Bunnamn 42.0%
Laughton 48.8%
Voracek 52.0%

what's the rest of the team?

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

All they have to do to make a competent roster is bring up Meyers and Farabee and stop playing Hagg. Having 5 4th liners in the lineup on purpose is so detrimental.

Lindblom-Couturier-Konecny
Giroux-Hayes-Farabee
JVR-Laughton-Voracek
Raffl-Bunnaman-Twarynski

Then Patrick or Frost bump Laughton to the 4th line when ready. And if both are ready Laughton could be 4th line wing and we would have 4 good lines. When healthy:

Lindblom-Couturier-Konecny
Giroux-Hayes-Farabee
JVR-Patrick-Voracek
Laughton-Frost-Raffl
Twarynsky
Pitlick

That would have to be as deep a forward group as anyone this year. Same for defense

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Braun
Ghost-Meyers
Morin
Hagg

 

[Deadpool8812]

Hayes is on PP1 ahead of him, but Couturier was on PP2 quite often last year, too.

At ES so far it is:

Couturier - 15:36
Hayes - 15:34

NHL.com - Stats

Couturier should be playing more than Hayes, and that's no knock to Hayes, who I think has looked good. Hayes just has zero chemistry with Giroux, but showed chemistry with Voracek during the preseason... Why break that up? We know Couturier and Giroux work well together, so why split the up?

The PP is just a whole different issue. The set up is atrocious where there is minimal opportunities for quality shots on net (one timers). JVR has nothing coming to him in front, and if he does, they aren't quality. Giroux and Voracek need to swap sides. It opens so much more potential out there

 

[flyersnorth]

I'm not a fan of Raffl playing in the middle, but thanks to the Stewart signing they can't recall an actual center like Rubtsov or Vorobyev to play 4C unless they demote Twarynski (which would be harsh) or waive someone.

Couldn't they just demote Bunnaman instead and bring up Ruby? That's along the lines of what I can see happening once they're back in Philly.

They might recall Farabee and send back Twarynski.

We'd be left with

JVR/Rubtsov or Laughton/Farabee
Raffl/Rubtsov or Laughton/Pitlick
Stewart

 

[Beef Invictus]

The worst part of the lineup management is definitely overplaying Sanheim. 20:56 a game for a guy who wasn't even good enough to get a long-term deal.


Against Dallas on Saturday I'd like to see this lineup.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Twarynski-Raffl-Pitlick
Stewart

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Niskanen
Morin-Ghost
Hagg

I'm not a fan of Raffl playing in the middle, but thanks to the Stewart signing they can't recall an actual center like Rubtsov or Vorobyev to play 4C unless they demote Twarynski (which would be harsh) or waive someone.

Whoa, I guess these moves do actually matter after all

 

[Starat327]

Whoa, I guess these moves do actually matter after all

shhhhhhhhhh. hes only going to play 13% of the game. in consequential at all.

 

[deadhead]

You don't think they watch film of the Phantoms' games and talk to Gordon and the assistant coaches on a regular basis.
They know what they want to see from the prospects to feel comfortable promoting them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don't think they watch film of the Phantoms' games and talk to Gordon and the assistant coaches on a regular basis.
They know what they want to see from the prospects to feel comfortable promoting them.

You've used this "you think they don't know!?" line of reasoning to justify far too many blatantly incorrect moves and you've been wrong in the end several times.

 

[Flyotes]

I'm not scared of them together, i'm scared that JVR who is they get paired with, Put lindblom on that line and its dynamite.

That's mean to Lindblom.

 

[Flyotes]

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Twarynski-Raffl-Pitlick
Stewart

Provorov-Braun
Sanheim-Niskanen
Morin-Ghost
Hagg

This is sensible.

G does well with V and should stay on wing.
2nd line has heady playmakers who can skate, creates tough line change matchups for opponent.
3rd line gets Farabee up, which he deserves, puts with 2 guys who can make plays, hopefully Laughts D can shelter JVR a bit and Farabee gets a chance to prove his hounding style of play can be good enough defensively, perhaps stick them out with certain D pairings.
4th line has strong forwards who can hound the puck and both Raffl and Twar like to push play into the net and play with some electricity.

Stewart and Hagg are faded to the shadow realm.

 

[deadhead]

You've used this "you think they don't know!?" line of reasoning to justify far too many blatantly incorrect moves and you've been wrong in the end several times.

People here who label moves "incorrect" for the most part are just expressing their emotions.
In most cases, it comes down to tradeoffs, and there are rarely "right moves" ex ante.
I mean, playing Stewart over Bunnaman, now that was neither "right" or "wrong." Inconsequential at best.
Is Morin really an improvement over Hagg? Because we've had 3 HCs in a row who've answered No. Are they all idiots (possible but unlikely).

Promoting a talented young player involves more than just "what lineup will please HF board posters."
I love Farabee, but it was obvious that he's grossly undersized for his style of play (love his courage around the net, but he was taking a beating).
If you're taking a long run view (even just a one season long run view) is he better on the Flyers or Phantoms RIGHT NOW?
Same with Frost, who often disappears for long stretches (both in the two TC games and the Phantoms game I watched) without the puck.
Myers obviously needs work on the mental side of the game, is he better doing that in the NHL or AHL?

Most of the time these questions don't have a clear answer.
We've seen prospects rushed and ruined, we've seen prospects rushed and work their way through growing pains, we've seen prospects marinated and explode onto the scene.

Pittsburgh 2015-16 - marinating players:
Dumoulin, 6 game cameo at 22, 8 game cameo at 23, 24 year old rookie averaged 21:31 in the playoffs
Conor Sheary, 4 years NCAA, AHL at 22, 30 AHL games at 23, then averages 13:58 in the playoffs
Bryan Rust, 4 years NCAA, 45 AHL games at 22, 14 game cameo, 16 AHL games at 23 before promoted, 11:31 in playoffs
Kuhnhackl, started his 4th AHL at 24, promoted after 23 games, 10:59 in the playoffs
next season, 2016-17
Jake Guentzel, 3 years NCAA, 33 AHL games at age 22 before promoted, played 17:30 in the playoffs and score 21 points in 25 games
Scott Wilson, 3 years NCAA, 55 AHL games at 22, 34 AHL games, 22 NHL games at 23, but no PO time, at 24 he played 11:58 in playoffs

The only one the Pens rushed up was Maatta (#22-2012), at age 19, and he never became more than a run of the mill 3rd pair defenseman.

 

[Beef Invictus]

People here who label moves "incorrect" for the most part are just expressing their emotions.
In most cases, it comes down to tradeoffs, and there are rarely "right moves" ex ante.
I mean, playing Stewart over Bunnaman, now that was neither "right" or "wrong." Inconsequential at best.
Is Morin really an improvement over Hagg? Because we've had 3 HCs in a row who've answered No. Are they all idiots (possible but unlikely).

Promoting a talented young player involves more than just "what lineup will please HF board posters."
I love Farabee, but it was obvious that he's grossly undersized for his style of play (love his courage around the net, but he was taking a beating).
If you're taking a long run view (even just a one season long run view) is he better on the Flyers or Phantoms RIGHT NOW?
Same with Frost, who often disappears for long stretches (both in the two TC games and the Phantoms game I watched) without the puck.
Myers obviously needs work on the mental side of the game, is he better doing that in the NHL or AHL?

Most of the time these questions don't have a clear answer.
We've seen prospects rushed and ruined, we've seen prospects rushed and work their way through growing pains, we've seen prospects marinated and explode onto the scene.

Pittsburgh 2015-16 - marinating players:
Dumoulin, 6 game cameo at 22, 8 game cameo at 23, 24 year old rookie averaged 21:31 in the playoffs
Conor Sheary, 4 years NCAA, AHL at 22, 30 AHL games at 23, then averages 13:58 in the playoffs
Bryan Rust, 4 years NCAA, 45 AHL games at 22, 14 game cameo, 16 AHL games at 23 before promoted, 11:31 in playoffs
Kuhnhackl, started his 4th AHL at 24, promoted after 23 games, 10:59 in the playoffs
next season, 2016-17
Jake Guentzel, 3 years NCAA, 33 AHL games at age 22 before promoted, played 17:30 in the playoffs and score 21 points in 25 games
Scott Wilson, 3 years NCAA, 55 AHL games at 22, 34 AHL games, 22 NHL games at 23, but no PO time, at 24 he played 11:58 in playoffs

The only one the Pens rushed up was Maatta (#22-2012), at age 19, and he never became more than a run of the mill 3rd pair defenseman.

Actually no, it isn't emotional, the arguments are routinely based upon statistical analysis. It's the opposite of emotion.

Keep pretending things that aren't true. I guess you can't refute the arguments, so you pretend their integrity is bunk instead.

 

[Flyotes]

People here who label moves "incorrect" for the most part are just expressing their emotions.

Hasty generalization + psychologizing + accusing people of arguing in bad faith.

In most cases, it comes down to tradeoffs, and there are rarely "right moves" ex ante.

Poisoning the well against objective knowledge, destroying the epistemic playing field of those arguing against your view.

I mean, playing Stewart over Bunnaman, now that was neither "right" or "wrong." Inconsequential at best.

Ditto.

Is Morin really an improvement over Hagg? Because we've had 3 HCs in a row who've answered No. Are they all idiots (possible but unlikely).

Reasonable question, but slight appeal to authority, rather than providing a declarative answer re: inducing skepticism but not rebuilding factual phenomenon, which is considered bad form.

Promoting a talented young player involves more than just "what lineup will please HF board posters."

Strawman.

If you're taking a long run view (even just a one season long run view) is he better on the Flyers or Phantoms RIGHT NOW?

False dilemma. Probably followed up by a false equivalence, is what I imagine your next step is.

Myers obviously needs work on the mental side of the game, is he better doing that in the NHL or AHL?

Same fallacy + small present sample size (induction issues).

Most of the time these questions don't have a clear answer.

Welcome to Post modernism, brother.

 

[Lord Defect]

Until Patrick is healthy and in the lineup, I’m holding my comments on the lineup to myself, or at least I’ll try.
I think he will be back sooner rather than later and AV may be tinkering with the line up for situations down the road.
With that said, TK should be on the first line with G and Coots. If a oracle can’t make an impact without G, ship him out this year.

 

[Starat327]

Hasty generalization + psychologizing + accusing people of arguing in bad faith.
Poisoning the well against objective knowledge, destroying the epistemic playing field of those arguing against your view.
Ditto.
Reasonable question, but slight appeal to authority, rather than providing a declarative answer re: inducing skepticism but not rebuilding factual phenomenon, which is considered bad form.
Strawman.
False dilemma. Probably followed up by a false equivalence, is what I imagine your next step is.
Same fallacy + small present sample size (induction issues).
Welcome to Post modernism, brother.

I just learned how to spell 'evisceration'.