2019/20 Roster Thread XIX

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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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They did not, but if you didnt see the opinions of fans from other clubs then I'd urge you to look there.

Some people put no stock into the opinions of fans. Frankly, I think a lot of the difference between the value of an opinion between a fan and say someone like Chuck, is that his daddy got him a start in the league.

The opinion of fans isnt the focal point of my post, so lets not make it that.

You mean the Ranger and Vancouver fans who complained that AV didn't give young players a fair shot?
I went and looked at those young players (not the ones like Hayes who started at 22, etc.) and it turns out they were all turds.

Fans of other teams can be as stupid as fans here.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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The coaching staff, collectively, has been fired 8 times by 6 different NHL teams. Two of the coaches were fired on 3 separate occasions by one NHL club. I know this is a results oriented business where snap judgments are often the norm, but that doesn't exactly scream excellence.

There's a reason for that.

Yeah, you're hired to be fired.
How many times was Lavi fired?
AV got to the finals twice, Trotz came up short with more talented teams until he finally had a Caps team good enough to overcome his post-season coaching (joking, kind of, but Trotz was labelled a "choker" until he won).

Getting fired is normal, getting hired multiple times is a mark of excellence.
 

dragonoffrost

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One coach.

That's because I added Ghost.

They've dumped three of the fringe of the old core and it didn't help along with 3 coaches and a GM.

Sports is results based. They brought in a credible NHL coach with 2 trips to the finals under his belt. If this coach isn't getting results more players heads are going to roll. I don't know who I just expect it to happen.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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That's because I added Ghost.

They've dumped three of the fringe of the old core and it didn't help along with 3 coaches and a GM.

Sports is results based. They brought in a credible NHL coach with 2 trips to the finals under his belt. If this coach isn't getting results more players heads are going to roll. I don't know who I just expect it to happen.
This is such a hilariously illogical argument.

If Fletcher thinks this way we’re completely f***ed, but even I have faith that he’s not that dumb.
 

Magua

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Apr 25, 2016
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They've fired how many coaches with the core of G, Coots, Jake, Ghost...

And changed GM's

Eventually the finger points in a different direction in sports like it or not.

Claude Giroux is perhaps the only thing that saved this franchise from bottom 5 finishes. He's one of the elite LWs in hockey. Couturier is a Selke-caliber 1C. Their names are beyond reproach.

Ghost and Couturier have only been core players under 1 coach in Hakstol and are on steals of contracts. Why is Ghost, a player oft used as a PP specialist, suddenly our core player and not our 1D Provorov, here for the same time? I think we all know Jake is most expendable. But even then it's likely selling off a good but flawed player for pennies on the dollar, which actually hurts your product and makes you feel good for about a week that they DID SOMETHING. Did that something help? Doesn't matter.

You have a much easier case to make that this organization failed its best players the last decade, not the reverse. That's where the finger should be pointed first. Cycling through mediocre hires doesn't change that. Many teams have failed or succeeded because they did or didn't make hasty decisions regarding their few good players.
 
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dragonoffrost

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This is such a hilariously illogical argument.

If Fletcher thinks this way we’re completely ****ed, but even I have faith that he’s not that dumb.
I guess you live in a freaking bubble and don't watch sports outside of this city. This is what happens in sports after firing enough management eventually the finger points at the players who've been there a long time. It and free agency is why players rarely play their whole career in one city anymore. I've dealt with favorite players being the player shipped out. Sucks as a fan but it's business. They aren't firing Fletcher or AV for at least 3 seasons and I think they are done with the fringe of the roster except when kids are ready. So where else is the move happening?

As Magua said G and Coots are beyond reproach....
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
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This is such a hilariously illogical argument.

If Fletcher thinks this way we’re completely ****ed, but even I have faith that he’s not that dumb.

After years of futility, the Flyers once entered a new season with high expectations and a new GM. They started 3-6-1 and proceeded to trade away a hyper-talented forward (a RW, no less) who had put up 230 combined points in the previous two seasons. Of course, at the time, there was no way of knowing how good the players they got in return would end up being. So...was that the wrong decision?

It's not an uncommon thought process. There's no saying how this hypothetical scenario would play out in the long run, and I'm not endorsing or decrying it. All I'm saying is...a major trade is a pretty likely scenario if we get more of the same for a couple months. It happens pretty damn often for teams in the boat that this one is currently in.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Yeah, you're hired to be fired.
How many times was Lavi fired?
AV got to the finals twice, Trotz came up short with more talented teams until he finally had a Caps team good enough to overcome his post-season coaching (joking, kind of, but Trotz was labelled a "choker" until he won).

Getting fired is normal, getting hired multiple times is a mark of excellence.

Hahahahahaha

Yeah, the Caps won because they added *checks notes* Devante Smith-Pelly and Christian Djoos. Totally not because Trotz finally decided to coach the playoffs using his flexible regular season style instead of the bizarre and less successful stubbornness that had characterized previous appearances.

Smith-Pelly and Djoos, and their massive reserves of talent.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Anyone suggesting it makes sense to trade a core player simply for the sake of change should be horribly embarrassed.

“bUt ThEyVe BeEn HeRE a LoNg TiMe aNd HaVeNt wON”

But WHY haven’t they won. It clearly hasn’t been their fault. They’re the opposite of a problem... the reasons the team hasn’t bottomed out. The team around the core and the management/coaching is why they haven’t won.

Before making changes you have to accurately find what the problems are. If anyone points to those guys as the problems... yikes.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
I guess you live in a freaking bubble and don't watch sports outside of this city. This is what happens in sports after firing enough management eventually the finger points at the players who've been there a long time. It and free agency is why players rarely play their whole career in one city anymore. I've dealt with favorite players being the player shipped out. Sucks as a fan but it's business. They aren't firing Fletcher or AV for at least 3 seasons and I think they are done with the fringe of the roster except when kids are ready. So where else is the move happening?

As Magua said G and Coots are beyond reproach....

After years of futility, the Flyers once entered a new season with high expectations and a new GM. They started 3-6-1 and proceeded to trade away a hyper-talented forward (a RW, no less) who had put up 230 combined points in the previous two seasons. Of course, at the time, there was no way of knowing how good the players they got in return would end up being. So...was that the wrong decision?

It's not an uncommon thought process. There's no saying how this hypothetical scenario would play our in the long run, all I'm saying is...a major trade is a pretty likely scenario if we get more of the same for a couple months. It happens pretty often for teams in the boat that this one is currently in.

There's a M A S S I V E difference between "this regularly happens" and "this is what should happen".

Could it? Only if Fletcher is stupid.
Should it? Obviously not.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
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Everyone has a cost, but when the primary basis for a move is desperation, shake ups, and what you're being RID of.......

versus opportunity and what you're ACQUIRING.....

it almost invariably leads to poor decision making and taking a loss. Have we not seen this story countless times?
 
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Chinatown88

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Jan 17, 2012
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155d86aeb5ce54e0f64f7de4e3315c34.gif
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
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There's a M A S S I V E difference between "this regularly happens" and "this is what should happen".

Could it? Only if Fletcher is stupid.
Should it? Obviously not.

Where, in this entire thing, did I ever say "should?" I'm saying that it's an extremely likely scenario to be prepared for.

Also, again: the Recchi example. Sometimes, it' a good decision. Other times, it's most likely a bad one (I'd have to sit down and think of some of the examples, at least in-season ones). But it happens.
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
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Anyone suggesting it makes sense to trade a core player simply for the sake of change should be horribly embarrassed.

“bUt ThEyVe BeEn HeRE a LoNg TiMe aNd HaVeNt wON”

But WHY haven’t they won. It clearly hasn’t been their fault. They’re the opposite... the reasons the team hasn’t bottomed out. The team around the core and the management/coaching is why they haven’t won.

Before making changes you have to accurately find what the problems are. If anyone points to those guys as the problems... yikes.

I mean, one of the problems has been the team mentality for a long time. Slow starts and long bouts of underperforming, I mean the Flyers going on a yearly losing streak is a meme at this point. It makes sense to look at veteran players when it's been a persistent problem across multiple coaches, GMs and a rotating cast of fringe players.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's the sole reason the Flyers haven't won anything. Obviously the supporting cast hasn't been good enough either.

Everyone has a cost, but when the primary basis for a move is desperation, shake ups, and what you're being RID of.......

versus opportunity and what you're ACQUIRING.....

it almost invariably leads to poor decision making and taking a loss. Have we not seen this story countless times?

Would you count the Richards/Carter trades in that category? I guess they kind of fall into both, a shake up and a good return.
 
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