2019/20 Roster Thread XIX

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FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,364
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Winnipeg
I have tons of optimism, most I have had in this team in a long time.

That being Said, Haag even being on the roster drives me ****ing nuts. We don't need to carry 8 D men and he is the worst.

Trade him for a pick , or waive him, that is the only 2 options !!

Have you ever thought about the irony, of how similar this franchise seems to be to the Blue Bombers? Disturbing.
 
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Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,491
42,218
If they demote Twarysnki and Myers, they could get down to $81,365,356 with a 23 man roster (13 F, 8D, 2 G), although three of them are on IR so it's really a 20 man roster.

G-C-TK
Lindblom-Hayes-Voracek
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Raffl-Bunnaman-Pitlick(IR)
Patrick(IR)

Provorov-Niskanen
Ghost-Braun
Hagg-Sanheim
Morin-Welinski(IR)

Hart
Elliott

Then activate Pitlick off IR to be the 12th forward on Friday.
 
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FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,364
28,236
Winnipeg
Being hopeful is fine.
Blind optimism and saying people can't critique clear mistakes is not fine.

The logic I keep seeing of saying we can't criticize the management/coaches because "we haven't even played a game yet" is ridiculous, since their work begins long before a game is played. We don't need to wait for the first game to know that certain things are mistakes and if we see them happen, like the Hagg issue as an example, then calling it out is far from unfair.

Im going to throw something out here that you may not like me for haha.

I know Hagg is trash. I very much agree. Know who disappointed me more so far? Voracek. I saw far too many lazy and stupid plays from a guy I have defended for a long time. A guy who is supposed to be a leader in turning this around, with more than just points. Not just another complimentary piece.

Or Ghost, for that lazy ass play where he completely let his man get in alone on Hart. Or Provorov for looking kind of average and not much more.

I am getting frustrated at all of them more so than a neanderthal like Hagg, because I EXPECT better.

Far too often, I've seen more consistent effort coming out of Niskanen, Braun, Hayes, Bunny/Twar/Farabee - the new guys to the club than the boys who have been here for a while. That says a whole lot, and something I have feared for a long time. That this losing and lackadaisical culture has crept in, and I think that is goes to be AV's biggest challenge.
 
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Jettany

Registered User
Feb 21, 2018
2,625
1,396
Except that was true.

HtA3Pgk.jpg
Was Dale Weise EVER a good player? That signing and usage was truly bizarre.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Im going to throw something out here that you may not like me for haha.

I know Hagg is trash. I very much agree. Know who disappointed me more so far? Voracek. I saw far too many lazy and stupid plays from a guy I have defended for a long time. A guy who is supposed to be a leader in turning this around, with more than just points. Not just another complimentary piece.

Or Ghost, for that lazy ass play where he completely let his man get in alone on Hart. Or Provorov for looking kind of average and not much more.

I am getting frustrated at all of them more so than a neanderthal like Hagg, because I EXPECT better.
I don't agree that the problems are laziness when those guys mess up. Everyone makes mistakes and the guys you mentioned more than make up for it, so I don't worry about them screwing up once in a while.

But I don't have a problem with you saying that certain players have disappointed you more than Hagg because disappointment is just a matter of "performance vs expectations". Hagg isn't disappointing at all because we expect him to be absolute trashhhh. :laugh:

Personally, I'm not really impressed or disappointed in anyone right now because it's just preseason. I'll judge them when the games matter.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
If they demote Twarysnki and Myers, they could get down to $81,365,356 with a 23 man roster (13 F, 8D, 2 G), although three of them are on IR so it's really a 20 man roster.

G-C-TK
Lindblom-Hayes-Voracek
JVR-Laughton-Farabee
Raffl-Bunnaman-Pitlick(IR)
Patrick(IR)

Provorov-Niskanen
Ghost-Braun
Hagg-Sanheim
Morin-Welinski(IR)

Hart
Elliott

Then activate Pitlick off IR to be the 12th forward on Friday.
Thanks.

Having Welinski hurt really sucks since he was not going to be on the roster in the 1st place.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
Im going to throw something out here that you may not like me for haha.

I know Hagg is trash. I very much agree. Know who disappointed me more so far? Voracek. I saw far too many lazy and stupid plays from a guy I have defended for a long time. A guy who is supposed to be a leader in turning this around, with more than just points. Not just another complimentary piece.

Or Ghost, for that lazy ass play where he completely let his man get in alone on Hart. Or Provorov for looking kind of average and not much more.

I am getting frustrated at all of them more so than a neanderthal like Hagg, because I EXPECT better.

Far too often, I've seen more consistent effort coming out of Niskanen, Braun, Hayes, Bunny/Twar/Farabee - the new guys to the club than the boys who have been here for a while. That says a whole lot, and something I have feared for a long time. That this losing and lackadaisical culture has crept in, and I think that is goes to be AV's biggest challenge.
Couldn't agree more.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,364
28,236
Winnipeg
I don't agree that the problems are laziness when those guys mess up. Everyone makes mistakes and the guys you mentioned more than make up for it, so I don't worry about them screwing up once in a while.

But I don't have a problem with you saying that certain players have disappointed you more than Hagg because disappointment is just a matter of "performance vs expectations". Hagg isn't disappointing at all because we expect him to be absolute trashhhh. :laugh:

Personally, I'm not really impressed or disappointed in anyone right now because it's just preseason. I'll judge them when the games matter.

I do think there is a portion here that I’ve ignored over the last few years.

I think the mentality of a lot of the guys that have been around on this club is nowhere near that of top clubs in the league.

Some of the things we are seeing scream that out to me. I think being part of that hextall/Hak era and a constant losing environment has become a definite problem.

They have to learn how to win again, and I know you don’t question the fire/effort on this club. I have started to.
 

Harhis

Registered User
Oct 30, 2017
1,209
2,273
Finland
I guess we have to wait until after the first game to criticize Hagg being in the lineup. :laugh:

It's not as if we've watched him play 150+ games.

What kind of logic is this.
150 is not close to large enough sample to make any conclusions. I think I heard some where 300 was not enough to criticize Hak.:sarcasm:

Oh, and Frost is not ready, he had a poor period in a preseason game.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
I do think there is a portion here that I’ve ignored over the last few years.

I think the mentality of a lot of the guys that have been around on this club is nowhere near that of top clubs in the league.

Some of the things we are seeing scream that out to me. I think being part of that hextall/Hak era and a constant losing environment has become a definite problem.

They have to learn how to win again, and I know you don’t question the fire/effort on this club. I have started to.

I think we've seen mental problems with this team, but I've never got the impression that they were effort. It always looked like confidence or frustration.

I'm 0% worried about the core players... it's been the others who have sunk this team in previous years, in addition to the coaching.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,939
18,798
Key Biscayne
Im going to throw something out here that you may not like me for haha.

I know Hagg is trash. I very much agree. Know who disappointed me more so far? Voracek. I saw far too many lazy and stupid plays from a guy I have defended for a long time. A guy who is supposed to be a leader in turning this around, with more than just points. Not just another complimentary piece.

Or Ghost, for that lazy ass play where he completely let his man get in alone on Hart. Or Provorov for looking kind of average and not much more.

I am getting frustrated at all of them more so than a neanderthal like Hagg, because I EXPECT better.

Far too often, I've seen more consistent effort coming out of Niskanen, Braun, Hayes, Bunny/Twar/Farabee - the new guys to the club than the boys who have been here for a while. That says a whole lot, and something I have feared for a long time. That this losing and lackadaisical culture has crept in, and I think that is goes to be AV's biggest challenge.

I was pondering last night and I reached the conclusion that either Jake or Ghost will be the first to go if the team comes out lifeless or mediocre over the first two months. And I, like you, love those two players. Any move like that would be as much a hockey trade as a message to the room. You look to get players of a similar caliber back, but you hope just as much that it wakes up the remaining guys.

The complacency is a killer. The talent is there, but the effort sometimes isn't--and it's not even "skate hard!" effort, it's mental effort. It's hard to consistently make good decisions. It's hard to pay attention in meetings and video sessions. It's hard to internalize a system to the point that everything--the right pass, the right pinch, etc--just becomes instinct. But that's what you have to do to win games, and it seems like none of the guys on the team really have their brains all the way in this thing. Giroux and Couturier don't really need to, they're that good, they'll score and make plays regardless.

But I worry that the half-hearted culture might've rubbed off on TK and Provy and other younger guys who have been on the roster for threeish years. When those two are bad it's because they're just not using their brains. If AV can't break that malaise on his own, they may have to blast a guy out of town to send that message.
 

dragonoffrost

It'll be a cold day...
Sponsor
Feb 15, 2019
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getting caught up....am I seeing this right that the issue we have for game 1 is that Pitlick and Patrick are not on IR, so we need to "demoted" 2 people to be cap compliant?

And I thought Pit and Pat were hurt so assumed they WOULD be on IR.

Confused....

IR yes LTIR no...

Big difference in cap implications.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
Wow, you must have the lowest opinion on Fletcher of anyone on this board if you expect Jake or Ghost to get traded if they get off to a slow start.
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
3,111
526
Im going to throw something out here that you may not like me for haha.

I know Hagg is trash. I very much agree. Know who disappointed me more so far? Voracek. I saw far too many lazy and stupid plays from a guy I have defended for a long time. A guy who is supposed to be a leader in turning this around, with more than just points. Not just another complimentary piece.

Or Ghost, for that lazy ass play where he completely let his man get in alone on Hart. Or Provorov for looking kind of average and not much more.

I am getting frustrated at all of them more so than a neanderthal like Hagg, because I EXPECT better.

Far too often, I've seen more consistent effort coming out of Niskanen, Braun, Hayes, Bunny/Twar/Farabee - the new guys to the club than the boys who have been here for a while. That says a whole lot, and something I have feared for a long time. That this losing and lackadaisical culture has crept in, and I think that is goes to be AV's biggest challenge.

Yeah, Voracek's had this issue for awhile. The effort isn't always there. I imagine him and JVR are going to get some shit from AV that Hakstol seemed too timid to give. Ghost probably falls into that category occasionally as well.

If there's any issue with lack of leadership from vets, it's Voracek. There's a reason it took him so long to get an A. He reminds me of Phil Kessel a little: very talented offensively and not interested in putting the effort into the rest of his game. He's also a very emotional player that isn't very consistent. It should be interesting to see how AV handles him.

Makes you miss Simmonds. Guy dropped off a cliff as far as ES play but he was a great leader.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
Well, at least we retained that $1 mil on Gudas because it doesn't actually matter and definitely couldn't cover the cost of 1 ELC. And we kept Hagg, whose contract almost equals Myers + Morin together. It just doesn't matter, when you think about it.

Fletcher said Pitlick's wrist strength after surgery was the 75% last week. Why are we rushing a fine but replaceable 4th liner back? I'm not cheerleading for Twarynski because I worry about the small sample size evaluating, but I can't even act like he hasn't done everything asked in preseason and deserves at least a night 1 spot. Farabee was one of the best players yesterday, and he has been a needed injection of skill into this skill deficient lineup. Removing him -- which I don't think happens -- would be indefensibly bonkers.

The lines don't even look like they went in a blender today. They look like they tried to assemble the ugliest starting lineup possible. So, f*** if I know what is going on.
 

dragonoffrost

It'll be a cold day...
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Feb 15, 2019
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Wow, you must have the lowest opinion on Fletcher of anyone on this board if you expect Jake or Ghost to get traded if they get off to a slow start.

They've fired how many coaches with the core of G, Coots, Jake, Ghost...

And changed GM's

Eventually the finger points in a different direction in sports like it or not.
 

blinds

Registered User
Jan 5, 2012
3,111
526
They've fired how many coaches with the core of G, Coots, Jake, Ghost...

And changed GM's

Eventually the finger points in a different direction in sports like it or not.

Well, Ghost has only been around the team since Hakstol. The others, with Simmonds, have been around since Lavi when we got rid of Richards/Carter. Voracek's probably the prime candidate for a shakeup trade. I don't see it happening this season, though. Plus they might want to keep him around as ED bait.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,939
18,798
Key Biscayne
They've fired how many coaches with the core of G, Coots, Jake, Ghost...

And changed GM's

Eventually the finger points in a different direction in sports like it or not.

Basically this. Fletcher and AV are good for a while, since they're the franchise's new plan. But the team expects results soon. Certainly there'll be a grace period of expected mediocrity while everyone adjusts, but if we're staring down the New Year and the team is still regularly delivering half-assed-oh-well-maybe-next-game performances, they'll make a roster move, and those are the top two candidates I think.
 

CanadianFlyer88

Knublin' PPs
Feb 12, 2004
42,546
51,291
Van City
The lines don't even look like they went in a blender today. They look like they tried to assemble the ugliest starting lineup possible. So, **** if I know what is going on.
Since there are still a couple more days until game day, maybe it was just a motivating tool. :laugh:

Opening day lines should be set by now (and probably are, for the most part). I have no idea why they would mess around with everything at practice so close to the opener, but I do kind of expect line tinkering as we go. Only one line could (should) be identical to what we saw last year, given the roster turnover. So I expect to see different combos elsewhere to find the right fits.

Problem is JVR doesn't really fit with anyone, so that is always going to provide headaches unless Kevin Hayes is a wizard.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
So just write off the first month of the season because of adjustments? If the Flyers have any hopes of making the playoffs this year, they probably shouldn't treat the first month like extended training camp. They don't have enough talent to chase points all season.

Have you looked at AV's first 20 games with Vancouver and the Rangers? 10-10 and 9-10-1.
If you thought that completely changing the coaching staff and half the roster was going to result in a seamless turnaround . . .

I don't even care about this season, I want AV to establish his schemes, get the team on the same page, and for Fletcher to purge veterans who don't get with the program. Time to close down the country club. Winning this year is less important than commitment to defensive responsibilities and the awareness to quickly flip the ice and attack on offense - play the game the right way and wins will follow.

By January I expect a few of the LHV prospects to be pushing to come to Philly (and will be very disappointed if 2 or 3 of them don't do so).

AV and Fletcher have zero loyalty to the veteran players on this team - which is a good thing - because it means they will have no problem promoting a kid who earns a spot and dumping a veteran who's going through the motions.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
They've fired how many coaches with the core of G, Coots, Jake, Ghost...

And changed GM's

Eventually the finger points in a different direction in sports like it or not.
yeah...we fired 1 coach at the tail end of contending....and fired 2 coaches while rebuilding.

Those 4 players had their BEST years just 1 year ago. We are a team that has lacked talent...and trading away your best talent is f***ing stupid.
 
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