2019-20 Roster Thread XIV: It's all about the sonnet

[bennysflyers16]

I get what you're saying here is that he has some weaknesses, but "He's only good at 5v5" is not really a criticism.

If he produces enough at ES, you just get other people to play special teams. If you have a stack of those up front, you hide a PP specialist on the 4th line same as you traditionally would a PK archetype.

Im not disagreeing with you, TK is one of my favs and I want him long term ( and not sitting out )and bridging him and playing him with G and COuts could be catastrophic. But I Do know, these RFA s are all sticking together this year, bridge deal may have to happen sadly. All I am saying,

 

[Striiker]

No, but alot of people were CONVINCED ( or trolling ) that Ghost, Frost, Farabee, our picks were all on the move, none of it happened, Good Move.

If Raffl is a good deal, lets extend Pitlik too then, makes sense no ?

So if a bunch of random people on the internet think that a bad trade is going to happen, and then Fletcher doesn't make that imaginary trade, it counts as a good move by him?

You must be screwing with me...

 

[Starat327]

So if a bunch of random people on the internet think that a bad trade is going to happen, and then Fletcher doesn't make that imaginary trade, it counts as a good move by him?

You must be screwing with me...

Also, you can never have enough bottom 6ers, so continue to sign them all.

 

[Magua]

Meier's better for sure, but why would his one deal outweigh the stack of other comps we have? Why not just look at the lists we can make and say Meier and Larkin didn't play out their leverage?

I have the same response to Leafs fans who say Marner can't get more than Kucherov. One guy took less than market. It doesn't mean everyone else has to do so. It's Ekblad, but in reverse.

I'll throw out some more less sexy names -- all in the last calendar year, all RFAs of varying lengths -- for conversations sake:

Teravainen: 5 years x $5.4 mil -- January 2019 -- 64 point season
Lindholm: 6 years x $4.85 mil -- July 2018 -- 48 point average previous 2 seasons
Zucker: 5 years x $5.5 mil -- July 2018 -- 64 points
Schmaltz: 7 years x $5.85 mil -- March 2019 -- 52 points​

Obviously, I think Konecny is better than at least Schmaltz, but contracts aren't about underlying metrics. Konecny is a tough one, given he's our first forward prospect to "hit" among this new wave. He's been a top 6 regular, though the raw numbers look suppressed. He's been and projects to be a high end 5v5 scorer.

But he also has his limitations on special teams, which might be the difference between 50-60 points and 70+. Long term: is he a line driver? Is he a complimentary player? I lean towards the latter with something less than certainty. (Note: I'm saying this more in defense of what his long-term parameters should be than in favor of a bridge -- who DO we compare him to? It's quite a wide range).

 

[bennysflyers16]

So if a bunch of random people on the internet think that a bad trade is going to happen, and then Fletcher doesn't make that imaginary trade, it counts as a good move by him?

You must be screwing with me...

Hak gone - Good move
Goaltending - Good Move
Depth at all positions - Good Move
Hayes Contract Details - Bad Move

Those are the things that arent debatable, most other moves you have to wait and see how the on ice product pans out before you can 100% say they were mistakes.

 

[dingbathero]

Nichuskin signed for $800,000 for 1 year.

That would have been nice here

 

[Striiker]

Hak gone - Good move
Goaltending - Good Move
Depth at all positions - Good Move
Hayes Contract Details - Bad Move

Those are the things that arent debatable, most other moves you have to wait and see how the on ice product pans out before you can 100% say they were mistakes.

This is a different discussion... What the hell is going on here benny

 

[bennysflyers16]

This is a different discussion... What the hell is going on here benny

I dont eben know anymore lol

I'm stressed the F out at work and reading bits every here and there. Good call, time to step away lol

 

[Striiker]

I dont eben know anymore lol

I'm stressed the F out at work and reading bits every here and there. Good call, time to step away lol

I gotcha, no worries.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I dont eben know anymore lol

I'm stressed the F out at work and reading bits every here and there. Good call, time to step away lol

Hope things get better, benny.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'll throw out some more less sexy names -- all in the last calendar year, all RFAs of varying lengths -- for conversations sake:

Teravainen: 5 years x $5.4 mil -- January 2019 -- 64 point season
Lindholm: 6 years x $4.85 mil -- July 2018 -- 48 point average previous 2 seasons
Zucker: 5 years x $5.5 mil -- July 2018 -- 64 points
Schmaltz: 7 years x $5.85 mil -- March 2019 -- 52 points​

Obviously, I think Konecny is better than at least Schmaltz, but contracts aren't about underlying metrics. Konecny is a tough one, given he's our first forward prospect to "hit" among this new wave. He's been a top 6 regular, though the raw numbers look suppressed. He's been and projects to be a high end 5v5 scorer.

But he also has his limitations on special teams, which might be the difference between 50-60 points and 70+. Long term: is he a line driver? Is he a complimentary player? I lean towards the latter with something less than certainty. (Note: I'm saying this more in defense of what his long-term parameters should be than in favor of a bridge -- who DO we compare him to? It's quite a wide range).

I do think he’s a complimentary piece, just one who’s likely to put up ES Points.

Completely agree on his volatility, which combined with the climbing RFA salary nature is why I understand he may need to be considered on the higher end of the existing scale. As long as he’s not going off of the deep end like an Ekblad did, you’re probably still likely to get surplus value out of the deal until/unless salary takes additional steps toward actual player peak. I’ll believe that when I see it.

Part of the minor overpay to me is also what my potential options are for flipping him. Locking him up at a slight overpay today I think it actually gives you more optionality going forward. If he’s a complimentary player making 6.25ish, he ultimately could be a perfect candidate for a Schenn style trade in 3-4 years, but I understand I’m probably more interested in doing those than most.

 

[Rebels57]

Nichuskin signed for $800,000 for 1 year.

That would have been nice here

He's f***ing terrible lol

 

[deadhead]

I get what you're saying here is that he has some weaknesses, but "He's only good at 5v5" is not really a criticism.

Actually it is, because there's an opportunity cost to having to carry a ST specialist to compensate.
You'll have to pay more for a PP guy than a typical 4th line forward, and it's likely that he won't contribute on the PK, so that further imbalances your roster.

Kapanen can play both PP2 and PK.
That gives him more value than TK if the ES scoring for the two players are similar.
A 2nd/3rd line guy who can fill multiple roles allows you to take guys like Couts and Giroux off PK duty and use those minutes to greater advantage.

 

[Tripod]

And we know TK can't PK after seeing his extended tryout under Hak.

 

[Starat327]

I can probably list 9 players on the roster right now thatg are better than TK on the PP, and another 3 that will either be there and havent proven it, or will be there shortly, that we all expect to be on the team soon, that make it so he never has to be a detriment to the team there.

PK - i have my doubts, but in an aggressive setup, he could actually be very good because of his speed. But when your PK revolves around ignoring player speeds and letting the team set up tents in your zone and bomb shots - yeah, a speedster is going to look bad.

 

[Stizzle]

Andreoff is a better player than VdV. However he is not a every day player at the NHL level
I want the kids to leave no doubt they deserve to be starting with the Flyers. They are very high end prospects. They need to show it in camp. No gifted spots

Ok, Ron.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I can probably list 9 players on the roster right now thatg are better than TK on the PP, and another 3 that will either be there and havent proven it, or will be there shortly, that we all expect to be on the team soon, that make it so he never has to be a detriment to the team there.

PK - i have my doubts, but in an aggressive setup, he could actually be very good because of his speed. But when your PK revolves around ignoring player speeds and letting the team set up tents in your zone and bomb shots - yeah, a speedster is going to look bad.

Lol at the description of the PK we were treated to for years. The passive nonsense was so obviously flawed but they kept going back to it.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Im not disagreeing with you, TK is one of my favs and I want him long term ( and not sitting out )and bridging him and playing him with G and COuts could be catastrophic. But I Do know, these RFA s are all sticking together this year, bridge deal may have to happen sadly. All I am saying,

There is a pretty good reason they are sticking together. The new US TV contract is coming up for renewal and rumor has it that it will significantly increase the cap. Every agent is advising their clients that unless we get an overpay on the long term deal let's wait for the cap to go up. Not every player will be receptive to waiting/risk but there is a compelling reason the players/agents want the bridge deal. Of course the teams and fans all want their good young players locked up long term at a good price. (see Coots and Ghost).

 

[deadhead]

TK has the raw skill to excel on the PK, but he'd have to learn to play under control and not get caught out of position chasing the puck.
Leier had good speed but was an awful PK player.

 

[wasup]

There is a pretty good reason they are sticking together. The new US TV contract is coming up for renewal and rumor has it that it will significantly increase the cap. Every agent is advising their clients that unless we get an overpay on the long term deal let's wait for the cap to go up. Not every player will be receptive to waiting/risk but there is a compelling reason the players/agents want the bridge deal. Of course the teams and fans all want their good young players locked up long term at a good price. (see Coots and Ghost).

Yea it sucks for sure but this has needed to happen for a while now . Paying past 30 year olds long term bloated contracts for past production is the way it has been done , but players between 23-32 years of age are prime years so they want prime dollars for those years . Can't blame them , times are a changing .

 

[FLYguy3911]

The RFA climate has changed drastically the last few seasons. That's common knowledge at this point.

Has it? I know that's the narrative being created, but it's more talk than action. You have Matthews, but he's an outlier- superstar, face of the franchise, etc.

You have the Aho "offer sheet" but besides that, the greatest RFA class of all time looks like it's going to miss out on OS leverage.

These players lose leverage the closer we get to the season. Teams are just going to let this play out until the end. And we are talking about hockey players and hockey culture. I don't think we're going to see massive holdouts.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

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