2019-20 Roster Thread XIV: It's all about the sonnet

[bennysflyers16]

Yeah, the idea that Konecny should be bridged is utterly laughable. Bridges make sense for contenders. Not for bubble playoff teams. We need cost certainty, not 'prove its'.

So if TK is demanding top dollar , and it is late September, you choose holdout over a bridge ?

And who is saying TK should be bridged ??

 

[Starat327]

So if TK is demanding top dollar , and it is late September, you choose holdout over a bridge ?

Obviously theres a range here to consider as well, but potentially, yes. TK has as much to lose as we do, if not more. I hate to go all Striiker here, but the timing shouldnt change your course of action. If Konecny wants 6-6.5 per and hes willing to sign for 8 years - make it happen. If he plays the "give me 8x8, a 2x5, or i sit" route, tell him to sit. Otherwise, the same thing happens next year, and the year after, and the year after.

There's more at stake here than just Konecny's contract and this year - people need to understand that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

So if TK is demanding top dollar , and it is late September, you choose holdout over a bridge ?

Sure. October doesn't outweigh the rest of the next 6ish years.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Andreoff is a better player than VdV. However he is not a every day player at the NHL level
I want the kids to leave no doubt they deserve to be starting with the Flyers. They are very high end prospects. They need to show it in camp. No gifted spots

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Andreoff is a better player than VdV. However he is not a every day player at the NHL level
I want the kids to leave no doubt they deserve to be starting with the Flyers. They are very high end prospects. They need to show it in camp. No gifted spots

Andreoff and Pitlick is like another shade of knight and varone lol.

 

[deadhead]

TK is not worth $6M long-term right now, he's varied between average and terrible on defense, he's useless on special teams, and he's scored 44 and 41 at ES. He's not nearly as good as Meier, more like Kapanen. Kapanen had 39 ES points, but also played 1:18 on PK with 2 SH goals. And I'm not sure how much upside he has, TK has very good speed but lacks the "shake and bake" and instincts of elite scorers.

If he's worth 2x3.5, then he's probably worth 6x5 on a longer-term deal (2x5 his last two RFA years, 2x6.5 his first two UFA years).

 

[Striiker]

Obviously theres a range here to consider as well, but potentially, yes. TK has as much to lose as we do, if not more. I hate to go all Striiker here, but the timing shouldnt change your course of action. If Konecny wants 6-6.5 per and hes willing to sign for 8 years - make it happen. If he plays the "give me 8x8, a 2x5, or i sit" route, tell him to sit. Otherwise, the same thing happens next year, and the year after, and the year after.

There's more at stake here than just Konecny's contract and this year - people need to understand that.

Sure. October doesn't outweigh the rest of the next 6ish years.

Had the same argument about Provorov. You don't give out a stupid contract, short or long, out of fear of a player sitting.

Based on the current excuses I'm hearing, Hextall must have been a masterful negotiator to have been able to give out multiple fantastic contracts, of perfect price and length, without having to deal with holdouts or any other nonsense.

Fletcher made a bad decision with the Sanheim contract and excuses are already being made to defend another one.

 

[deadhead]

Andreoff and Pitlick is like another shade of knight and varone lol.

Pitlick is similar to Raffl, only question with him is durability, but he's >> Knight, Varone, et al.

Andreoff is a 13th forward type, you don't mind letting him rot in the press box, but he can fill in for a few games while you look for a longer term fix.

 

[Rebels57]

Andreoff and Pitlick is like another shade of knight and varone lol.

Watch Chris Stewart earn a contract and throw us all for a loop

 

[bennysflyers16]

6 plus years at 6.1 per or 2 years at 3.3 per is what I would be content with for TK. This way when his deal comes down, use this post for whether I will be critical or not .

There will be a group tho that will be critical no matter what .

 

[JojoTheWhale]

TK is not worth $6M long-term right now, he's varied between average and terrible on defense, he's useless on special teams, and he's scored 44 and 41 at ES. He's not nearly as good as Meier, more like Kapanen. Kapanen had 39 ES points, but also played 1:18 on PK with 2 SH goals. And I'm not sure how much upside he has, TK has very good speed but lacks the "shake and bake" and instincts of elite scorers.

If he's worth 2x3.5, then he's probably worth 6x5 on a longer-term deal (2x5 his last two RFA years, 2x6.5 his first two UFA years).

Meier's better for sure, but why would his one deal outweigh the stack of other comps we have? Why not just look at the lists we can make and say Meier and Larkin didn't play out their leverage?

I have the same response to Leafs fans who say Marner can't get more than Kucherov. One guy took less than market. It doesn't mean everyone else has to do so. It's Ekblad, but in reverse.

 

[Magua]

Watch Chris Stewart earn a contract and throw us all for a loop

 

[Rebels57]

Had the same argument about Provorov. You don't give out a stupid contract, short or long, out of fear of a player sitting.

Based on the current excuses I'm hearing, Hextall must have been a masterful negotiator to have been able to give out multiple fantastic contracts, of perfect price and length, without having to deal with holdouts or any other nonsense.

Fletcher made a bad decision with the Sanheim contract and excuses are already being made to defend another one.

The RFA climate has changed drastically the last few seasons. That's common knowledge at this point.

 

[Striiker]

6 plus years at 6.1 per or 2 years at 3.3 per is what I would be content with for TK. This way when his deal comes down, use this post for whether I will be critical or not .

There will be a group tho that will be critical no matter what .

You only think that because he keeps screwing up. The critiques will stop when the mistakes do.

 

[bennysflyers16]

That would apply so perfectly to Striker

 

[bennysflyers16]

You only think that because he keeps screwing up. The critiques will stop when the mistakes do.

No one hates that Raffl deal more than me , agreed.

But he didn't trade Ghost or Sanheim for Trouba , thats not a screw up.

 

[Striiker]

No one hates that Raffl deal more than me , agreed.

But he didn't trade Ghost or Sanheim for Trouba , thats not a screw up.

I have no idea what you think either of these things have to do with what I said.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

No one hates that Raffl deal more than me , agreed.

But he didn't trade Ghost or Sanheim for Trouba , thats not a screw up.

So basically Peter Chiarelli is your barometer of what constitutes as good or bad?

 

[Starat327]

6 plus years at 6.1 per or 2 years at 3.3 per is what I would be content with for TK. This way when his deal comes down, use this post for whether I will be critical or not .

There will be a group tho that will be critical no matter what .

I'll give praise when its deserving, and i've done so in the past. Bridging the entire team to all need new contracts at the same time is just poor decision making, plain and simple - there's no way around it. The flyers arent winning anything in those two years save for maybe a playoff round or two, so bridging everyone and seeing who works out best is nonsensical. Some brides - sure. All bridges? absolutely not. You need to have some sort of a core locked up with term and make the gamble that people outperform contracts. Konecny is that type of player that could easily be worth 6+ in as short as year, provided hes used correctly.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I have no idea what you think either of these things have to do with what I said.

I gave you an example of 1 bad move, and one good one so far, they aren't all bad, that's all.

 

[Striiker]

I gave you an example of 1 bad move, and one good one so far, they aren't all bad, that's all.

The Raffl signing wasn't a bad move and not making a massive f*** up doesn't count as a good move.

Or should we also give him credit for the "good move" of not trading Giroux or Couturier?

 

[bennysflyers16]

I'll give praise when its deserving, and i've done so in the past. Bridging the entire team to all need new contracts at the same time is just poor decision making, plain and simple - there's no way around it. The flyers arent winning anything in those two years save for maybe a playoff round or two, so bridging everyone and seeing who works out best is nonsensical. Some brides - sure. All bridges? absolutely not. You need to have some sort of a core locked up with term and make the gamble that people outperform contracts. Konecny is that type of player that could easily be worth 6+ in as short as year, provided hes used correctly.

Of course, but that hasnt even happened.

TK also hasnt been good on the PP and does not PK, there is some risk with him to handing him a 50 mill deal. Again, I love TK, but you can't just give them all top dollar either.

And I disagree on 2 years, if AV is good and Hart is the real deal, this team could contend next year

 

[bennysflyers16]

The Raffl signing wasn't a bad move and not making a massive **** up doesn't count as a good move.

Or should we also give him credit for the "good move" of not trading Giroux or Couturier?

No, but alot of people were CONVINCED ( or trolling ) that Ghost, Frost, Farabee, our picks were all on the move, none of it happened, Good Move.

If Raffl is a good deal, lets extend Pitlik too then, makes sense no ?

 

[Starat327]

Jojo, I think i'm beginning to see what you mean.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

TK also hasnt been good on the PP and does not PK, there is some risk with him to handing him a 50 mill deal. Again, I love TK, but you can't just give them all top dollar either.

I get what you're saying here is that he has some weaknesses, but "He's only good at 5v5" is not really a criticism.

If he produces enough at ES, you just get other people to play special teams. If you have a stack of those up front, you hide a PP specialist on the 4th line same as you traditionally would a PK archetype.

One thing I personally need to dig into more is how Vigneault has historically split PP1 and PP2 time. I have a memory of the Rangers tenure, but I like to check my work before I speak it.