Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[Steve Zissou]

Stothers is out... and.... welcome back Big Willie D!

 

[cyclones22]

I'm surprised people are really concerned about Stothers being let go (unless one of Blake's buddy's get hired). When the Kings were at their peak, it made sense to have the AHL squad mimic the big team so they could seamlessly bring up players who already knew the system, but I'm not sure a lot of top flight development was happening there. Not sure that was really the top priority. Getting them NHL ready vs reaching their potential. But now, you've got the most talented and youngest set of prospects heading to the Reign in probably forever and you're really banking on the Reign staff to bring the best out of kids like Turcotte, Madden, Akil Thomas, Fagemo, Kupari, Dudas, Hults, Durzi etc. Even more will be joining Ontario the following season. You best be damn sure you've got the right development staff in Ontario to cultivate this crop.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Stothers is out... and.... welcome back Big Willie D!

I was hoping for the return of John Torchetti.

 

[funky]

Barry Melrose come on down.

Just wait, they will hire Tony Granato. Turcotte will immediately demand a trade and be packaged to Chicago so we can re-aquire Kubalik to make Andy happy.

Thomas Sandstrom hearing that Granato is back here signs on as our new PK coach and all is well

 

[King'sPawn]

Good luck to Stothers. Utmost respect for him.

That being said, I've emphasized the importance of setting up an infrastructure to bring out the best in the prospects. I'm unsure if firing Stothers is the answer, but Blake seems to feel this is the best path.

Gutsy call and good luck to Stothers regardless. Hopefully whomever they bring in develops the youth as Blake envisions (more uptempo and offensive).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I swear to god if Stothers is replaced with a 1998-2007 Kings player

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I swear to god if Stothers is replaced with a 1998-2007 Kings player

Roman Vopat?
Report: WHL Ice fire Vopat after WJC tweets - TSN.ca

 

[redcard]

I swear to god if Stothers is replaced with a 1998-2007 Kings player

Don't think you have to worry about that, Stoll wasn't acquired until 2008.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Good luck to Stothers. Utmost respect for him.

That being said, I've emphasized the importance of setting up an infrastructure to bring out the best in the prospects. I'm unsure if firing Stothers is the answer, but Blake seems to feel this is the best path.

Gutsy call and good luck to Stothers regardless. Hopefully whomever they bring in develops the youth as Blake envisions (more uptempo and offensive).

Very true. One way or another, we're seeing Blake put a stamp on the franchise. He owns every ounce of results at this point.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Changing the AHL coach at this point is fine. I’m surprised they would announce Stothers leaving and not have a replacement ready. Makes management look unprepared, which is par for the course.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Changing the AHL coach at this point is fine. I’m surprised they would announce Stothers leaving and not have a replacement ready. Makes management look unprepared, which is par for the course.

How often does a team have an immediate replacement ready when they announce that a coach’s contract isn’t being renewed during the offseason? The Canucks just let go of their scouting director without having named a successor. Is there an immediate need to quickly rush to hire an AHL coach in June? Or is this just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

[Brodeur]

Do you recall the compensation the Kings would have received, if any if they would have let him go to the Blues?

To keep myself entertained during the pandemic, I was doing some reading on old transactions like this since I was too young to understand the behind the scenes stuff back then. If anybody is bored, I found a great site with some old CBA info: Free Agency Before 1995 – On “Equalization”

The TL;DR version: The Kings would not have received any compensation if they didn't match on McSorley.

Free agency in 1993 was a bit different than it was after the 1995 CBA. So the Wikipedia page on offer sheets is incomplete/slightly incorrect.

Long story short, there was no true unrestricted free agency before 1995. If a player was over 30 years old, he became a Group III free agent. That player was permitted to sign an offer sheet with another team but either:

A) He gave the original team the right to match, but the original team would receive no compensation if they didn't match.

B) If the original team was not given the right to match, the two teams would have a short window to work out a trade otherwise there was a process known as equalization (more on that later)

The Kings matched on McSorley and traded him shortly thereafter. The 1995 CBA would add the stipulation where you couldn't match and trade the player for a full year.

Al MacInnis signed a Group III offer sheet with St. Louis in 1994 but didn't give Calgary the right to match. So the two sides worked out a deal which sent Phil Housley and draft picks to Calgary. If they weren't able to agree on a deal, the two teams would have had to present their offers to an independent arbitrator.

Teams were wary of going to an arbitrator after the Devils successfully argued for Scott Stevens from St. Louis in 1991.

The 1995 CBA made Group III free agents unrestricted. And after that we only had Group II free agent offer sheets.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And another trade of note that’s clear now as far as the conditions: The Kings have a conditional 2021 third-round pick from the Maple Leafs from the Jack Campbell/Kyle Clifford deal (plus, Los Angeles got Trevor Moore). The pick becomes a second-round pick if the Leafs either re-sign Clifford or make the playoffs (which means winning their play-in round versus Columbus) and Campbell wins six regular-season games. He won three. So the second criterion is now toast. The Kings can upgrade to a second-round pick only if Clifford re-signs with the Leafs.

 

[Brodeur]

The most famous offer sheet that was probably the Brendan Shanahan with the Blues, which landed Scott Stevens to New Jersey as compensation.

Stevens was unhappy to move to New Jersey and the Blues tampered with him in trying to sign him back, and the league came down hard on St. Louis as a result. It’s no surprise the Blues were also behind the McSorley offer sheet.

Here’s an article on the tampering fiasco.
HOCKEY; Devils Get $1.4 Million and Draft Pick in Tampering Case

Since it happened before my time, I was always curious why the Devils didn't match the offer on Shanahan. I was surprised to learn that there existed a thing called Group I free agency back then (off the top of my head, it was like under 25 years old but with at least 3 years of NHL experience). The odd thing was that the original team had no right to match. The two sides would get a window to negotiate a trade. If they couldn't work something out, the league would have an arbitrator decide between the offers.

St. Louis offered a package centered around Rod Brind'Amour and Curtis Joseph. Brind'Amour was a year younger than Shanahan and had put up similar numbers in their young careers. CuJo had just completed his second season as a backup goalie, so he wasn't as valued yet.

Those around the league were shocked when the arbitrator ruled in favor of the Devils who requested Scott Stevens. While today it looks like a fair swap, Shanahan hadn't quite broken out while Stevens was a perennial All-Star.

St. Louis was salty at the ruling, I think Brett Hull accused the arbitrator with being in bed with the NHL. Ie, the arbitrator was punishing St. Louis for signing Stevens to the Group II offer sheet the previous season.

Looking back at it now, I can understand why Stevens tried to sign an offer sheet to go back to St. Louis in 1994. When he signed with them initially, he and his wife built their dream house in St. Louis and were getting ready to start a family. Then all of a sudden, that got taken away from them.

The ruling was kind of a wet blanket on the Group I free agent market for awhile since teams had no faith in the arbitrator (usually a judge without any particular hockey background). The day that the Shanahan ruling was handed down, the Rangers signed Adam Graves to a Group I offer sheet.

The last Group I offer sheet from that era involved (surprise surprise) St. Louis. Petr Nedved had been holding out in Vancouver during the 1993-94. Nedved signed a Group I offer with St. Louis and the two sides were unable to come to a deal.

St. Louis offered Craig Janney and a draft pick while Vancouver requested Shanahan. The timing was different since this happened while the season was happening. So it took over a week for the dust to get settled, meanwhile Janney/Shanahan were linemates and playing knowing that one of them was about to be shipped out.

Eventually the arbitrator sided with St. Louis, but Janney refused to report to Vancouver. The Canucks would trade Janney back to St. Louis for Jeff Brown, Bret Hedican, and Nathan Lafayette. Vancouver would make an unexpected run to the Cup final after that.

And it's interesting to see how that series of transactions led to off ice drama:

https://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/regner-hall-sends-shanny-message-062612

So you have to wonder if his relationship and then marriage to the wife (eventually ex-wife) of former St. Louis Blues teammate Craig Janney caught up with Shanahan on Tuesday, when he was denied first-ballot admission into the Hockey Hall of Fame.
Even though the Shanahans have been married for 14 years now and have three children, how else can you explain this jarring snub?

Shanahan has always marched to a different drummer. Although he was respected by his Red Wings teammates for his play, he wasn’t the most popular guy in the room.

Many thought that it was too much Brendan Shanahan and not enough Detroit Red Wings. This frustrated his Detroit teammates because — despite his bravado and the Janney thing — when they were all on the ice together, they became champions.

But apparently the Jeff Brown/Kirk McLean rumor was false: I was a hockey wife — and it just about killed me: My stint with NHL veteran Kirk McLean

To this day, I get asked about a rumour involving infidelity with a man I’ve never met — Jeff Brown, for those of you who follow hockey lore.

 

[regulate]

I think I brought this up about a week ago. It makes complete sense you are not in the playoffs until you play your way into them. The scariest part of this whole thing is upsets in the "play-in" round as far as the draft lottery goes. There is a 1 in 4 chance that one of these "play-in" teams gets a top 3 pick if they lose in the play-in, and the chance is equally distributed for a chance at that pick if you lose now matter how good your regular season was.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Like I said, this whole thing ends with Pittsburgh or Edmonton drafting Lafreniere. The sooner we get comfortable with #7, the better.

 

[Telos]

I'll reserve my judgment on Stothers until the replacement is named, but as mentioned, if it is Wayne Gretzky or some shit, there should be a riot.

I get a feeling that Blake & Co. wants more of their stamp on the staff, but Stothers wasn't an issue whatsoever. If they toss him for Tony Granato or something similar then the old boys club is really pushing it.

I like the direction the youth is going, but it doesn't scream to me masterful leadership by Blake. He's got a ways to go and if he hires more of his buddies, it will make it all the easier to turn on him the next big mistake.

 

[kovacro]

Ron Caron was a crazy GM. Traded Joe Mullen. Traded for Hull. Traded Gilmour in a 7 player deal. Traded Ronning in a 6 player deal. Traded for, and then traded, Oates within 3 years. Signed Stevens, with all the draft pick compensation. Signed Shanahan, offering Brind'Amour and Joseph as compensation, but ultimately losing Stevens instead. Trades for Housley. Traded Oates for Janney, had to trade Janney to Vancouver after signing Nedved to a RFA contract, then 7 days later got Janney back from Vancouver. Less than a year after getting Housley, he trades him for MacInnis. Two weeks later, gets fired July 17th, 1994, the Blues hire Keenan the same day, and 7 days later, he trades Nedved to NY for Lidster and Tikkanen.

Not that this was just a Blues thing, although they were in the middle of a lot. Imagine the internet being around back then. Not to mention the chaos of the Lindros situation. I miss that NHL. You don't get that sort of insanity anymore.

Blast from the past! Sure loved to wheel and deal.

History of hockey trades by general manager Ron Caron - NHL Trade Tracker

 

[Herby]

This is not unusual guys, our fanbase freaks out when Lombardi (11 years), Futa (13 years) and Stothers (6 years) move on. Coaches and Execs have shelf lives, especially when the NHL and AHL franchises have struggled so much the last few years. In fairness to Stothers he hasn't really been given much ton work with as far as high end prospects, but they also really haven't developed many guys into more than depth players at the NHL level. They probably feel like its time to have a fresh voice down there, and I'm ok with it, but really hoping it's not another one of Blake and Luc's friends from the loser late 90's era Kings.

 

[kingsboy11]

Definitely a surprise. Given what the players who have played under him have said about him, its genuine surprise that they would let him go. We've let Futa go and now we've let Stothers go now. I have a feeling Luc and Blake are looking for people that are aligned in their vision, not to say that they didn't, but I think they have a vision for the team and looking to find people that fit it the best.

 

[RossLonsberryFan]

Would love to see the Kings land Benoit Groulx who is currently the head coach of Tampa Bay’s AHL affiliate in Syracuse, NY. His son Bo was a 2018 2nd round pick of the Ducks. He’s done a very good job of developing young prospects for the Lightning.

 

[Herby]

Ron Caron was a crazy GM. Traded Joe Mullen. Traded for Hull. Traded Gilmour in a 7 player deal. Traded Ronning in a 6 player deal. Traded for, and then traded, Oates within 3 years. Signed Stevens, with all the draft pick compensation. Signed Shanahan, offering Brind'Amour and Joseph as compensation, but ultimately losing Stevens instead. Trades for Housley. Traded Oates for Janney, had to trade Janney to Vancouver after signing Nedved to a RFA contract, then 7 days later got Janney back from Vancouver. Less than a year after getting Housley, he trades him for MacInnis. Two weeks later, gets fired July 17th, 1994, the Blues hire Keenan the same day, and 7 days later, he trades Nedved to NY for Lidster and Tikkanen.

Not that this was just a Blues thing, although they were in the middle of a lot. Imagine the internet being around back then. Not to mention the chaos of the Lindros situation. I miss that NHL. You don't get that sort of insanity anymore.

Yeah this board would crash multiple times a season if there were moves like in the 90's. The cap basically ended the free-wheeling crazy trades and offer sheets we used to see.

The thing I remember most about pre-cap hockey (especially 90's) is how certain teams traded alot. Pittsburgh, LA and Boston had alot of shared players.

Pittsburgh had probably the craziest amount of talent come through, Detroit too, but Pittsburgh was at another level and they traded alot

Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Ron Francis, Paul Coffey, Luc Robitaille, Alexei Kovalev, Mark Recchi, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tocchet, Martin Straka, Robert Lang, Petr Nedved, John Cullen, Bryan Trottier, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, Tomas Sandstrom, Sergei Zubov, Markus Naslund, Glen Murray, Stu Barnes all in like a 6 year window. Dean Lombardi couldn't bring himself to trade bottom six players and the Pens were trading Hall of Famers every season.

St. Louis saw alot too, as you mentioned.

 

[kingsfan28]

Maybe Sturm is going down to be the coach. Would that be considered a demotion ?

 

[Herby]

Maybe Sturm is going down to be the coach. Would that be considered a demotion ?

I would say yes, because the lifestyle differences between the NHL and AHL are drastic (Not as much for the Kings though). If his goal is to be an NHL coach he probably has an equal chance from either spot, but I think most guys would prefer to be an NHL assistant-coach than an AHL head-coach.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think I've ever seen a compliment parade quite like I have from players not even with the organization today re: Stothers, even Budaj was pitching in

And bonus fierce photo