2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[The Tikkanen]

Kopitar's game was never based on speed, like Sundin mentioned previously. Carter had the deadly duo, a game based entirely on speed and a major injury to his leg.

 

[verbalkint47]

The difference between 35 year Carter and Kopitar is that Carter is forced to play up the roster. Kings don't have another top 6 center so he has to play more than he probably should.
Kopitar at 35 and 36 should have Vilardi and Turcotte ahead of him. It's much easier to be an effective 3rd line center with reduced ice time. Barring a major injury, I don't see any reason why he can't be essentially Handzus at that age.

 

[KINGS17]

Some of you are moving the goal posts quite a bit from where they were when the Kings re-signed Kopitar. At that time it was all about, he will be fine for the next four or five years while the Kings are still winning, then the cap hit won't be that bad by the time we get into the later years of the contract, because the cap will go up.

I never said Kopitar would be a lousy player. My concern was around a contract that provides little benefit to the organization in terms of competing for a Stanley Cup. The Kings are likely not going to be contenders by the end of his deal. Now we have gone from Kings need him to win now (back when he signed) to Kopitar will be a great mentor for the kids.

Consider the cost of the opportunity lost, because the Kings stuck to the traditional model (one that inevitably fails). Kopitar isn't the only opportunity missed, and I am not saying the Kings had to take every opportunity that presented itself, but they failed to exercise any of the opportunities presented which would have really kick started a rebuild. I am speaking of Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty primarily.

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[King'sPawn]

Some of you are moving the goal posts quite a bit from where they were when the Kings re-signed Kopitar. At that time it was all about, he will be fine for the next four or five years while the Kings are still winning, then the cap hit won't be that bad by the time we get into the later years of the contract, because the cap will go up.

I never said Kopitar would be a lousy player. My concern was around a contract that provides little benefit to the organization in terms of competing for a Stanley Cup. The Kings are likely not going to be contenders by the end of his deal. Now we have gone from Kings need him to win now (back when he signed) to Kopitar will be a great mentor for the kids.

Consider the cost of the opportunity lost, because the Kings stuck to the traditional model (one that inevitably fails). Kopitar isn't the only opportunity missed, and I am not saying the Kings had to take every opportunity that presented itself, but they failed to exercise any of the opportunities presented which would have really kick started a rebuild. I am speaking of Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty primarily.

What you fail to recognize in every single one of these debates is you have to look outside of the "maximize assets" angle.

You think Kopitar would bring more to the team by trading him away than keeping him and a) mentoring b) showing attention to detail and responsibility for an overall game c) giving the prospects a veteran to compete against to earn the #1 role.

Kopitar has durability while also playing a style that doesn't break him down, like Richards. He's a low maintenance player.

You don't keep vets just because you are competing just like you don't have all rookies in a rebuild. They have roles and responsibilities which fluctuate based on organizational needs.

The players to be traded away to kickstart a rebuild were the ones whose roles could be filled in by the youth. Lewis, Pearson, Toffoli, Martinez, et al, and THOSE moves should have been done much sooner. They were replaceable roles while maximizing assets.

There's no Doughty replacement or Kopitar replacement. Nobody has really wrestled a spot from Carter, either. And it's yet to be seen if it's due to scouting, development, or availability of picks.

 

[KINGS17]

What you fail to recognize in every single one of these debates is you have to look outside of the "maximize assets" angle.

You think Kopitar would bring more to the team by trading him away than keeping him and a) mentoring b) showing attention to detail and responsibility for an overall game c) giving the prospects a veteran to compete against to earn the #1 role.

Kopitar has durability while also playing a style that doesn't break him down, like Richards. He's a low maintenance player.

You don't keep vets just because you are competing just like you don't have all rookies in a rebuild. They have roles and responsibilities which fluctuate based on organizational needs.

The players to be traded away to kickstart a rebuild were the ones whose roles could be filled in by the youth. Lewis, Pearson, Toffoli, Martinez, et al, and THOSE moves should have been done much sooner. They were replaceable roles while maximizing assets.

There's no Doughty replacement or Kopitar replacement. Nobody has really wrestled a spot from Carter, either. And it's yet to be seen if it's due to scouting, development, or availability of picks.

What you fail to recognize is that you don't have to look outside the maximize assets angle in every single one of them. Do it for one of them, or two of them, not for all of them.

Who was the Kings Kopitar or Doughty before they arrived? The Kings are next to DFL with them. They can be next to DFL without one of them.

Somehow without a Kopitar or Doughty to be the example back in 2006, Dean Lombardi still managed to build a Stanley Cup championship caliber team for three seasons. There is no need to fill that role this instant. The Kings suck right now with them filling the role. Look to new blood to step in and fill that role.

 

[deaderhead28]

Some of you are moving the goal posts quite a bit from where they were when the Kings re-signed Kopitar. At that time it was all about, he will be fine for the next four or five years while the Kings are still winning, then the cap hit won't be that bad by the time we get into the later years of the contract, because the cap will go up.

I never said Kopitar would be a lousy player. My concern was around a contract that provides little benefit to the organization in terms of competing for a Stanley Cup. The Kings are likely not going to be contenders by the end of his deal. Now we have gone from Kings need him to win now (back when he signed) to Kopitar will be a great mentor for the kids.

Consider the cost of the opportunity lost, because the Kings stuck to the traditional model (one that inevitably fails). Kopitar isn't the only opportunity missed, and I am not saying the Kings had to take every opportunity that presented itself, but they failed to exercise any of the opportunities presented which would have really kick started a rebuild. I am speaking of Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty primarily.

Kings were never trading Kopitar or Doughty unless they forced their way out, so theres no spilled milk to get upset over.I am probably alone and that's fine,but I rather keep Carter,Kopitar and Doughty as vets to teach the youth coming up. Organization will have to pay stop gap veterans anyways,might as well keep the ones that actually won cups.

 

[KINGS17]

Kings were never trading Kopitar or Doughty unless they forced their way out, so theres no spilled milk to get upset over.I am probably alone and that's fine,but I rather keep Carter,Kopitar and Doughty as vets to teach the youth coming up. Organization will have to pay stop gap veterans anyways,might as well keep the ones that actually won cups.

Well, looks like you will get your wish. I believe they could have done better by cashing in on at least one of those assets.

 

[kevsh]

Considering what they've done for the organization, I'd say let Carter, Kopitar and Doughty stay until they no longer want to. Add to the already mentioned influence on young players (of which the Kings have a boat load of), they have earned that right by a mile.

 

[kovacro]

Kings sign Kevin Poulin. Likely veteran goalie depth for Ontario now that Petersen is up.

Edit: Meh, I should of read the previous page. Already noted.

 

[King'sPawn]

What you fail to recognize is that you don't have to look outside the maximize assets angle in every single one of them. Do it for one of them, or two of them, not for all of them.

Who was the Kings Kopitar or Doughty before they arrived? The Kings are next to DFL with them. They can be next to DFL without one of them.

Somehow without a Kopitar or Doughty to be the example back in 2006, Dean Lombardi still managed to build a Stanley Cup championship caliber team for three seasons. There is no need to fill that role this instant. The Kings suck right now with them filling the role. Look to new blood to step in and fill that role.

It took six years when Lombardi joined to turn the Kings into a cup contender. The idea is to institute an ongoing infrastructure where you don't have to rebuild after three years of glory, which is what you insist the Kings should have done the moment they weren't cup contenders.

Rebuilding sucks. Nobody likes it, and it's unreliable at best.. You keep players until you draft and develop someone to fill in the role (or you can CHEAPLY replace via UFA). Then move players down and out of the lineup to keep gaining new assets. This exposes breaks in the system when things don't go well.

When you pawn off assets for best value and try to flat out rebuild:
- fans hate seeing a losing team
- players hate being on a losing team
- executives hate managing a losing team
- you end up overpaying for UFAs to fill in key roles (or underpay someone incompetent)
- because you already expect to lose, you can't find systemic faults, because you assume everything is going to plan and it will get better over time.
- you bring in additional variables for failure. Is it team chemistry? Are players afraid of failure because they feel anyone could be moved at any moment?

Instituting a methodology and meaningful criteria of players to keep and replace allows you to see what's wrong, and correct it in a meaningful way. Why HASN'T anyone been able to supplant a now 35 year-old Carter or Dustin Brown? Are we not drafting well? Developing well? Or are we just trading everyone away?

What good is kickstarting a rebuild if you don't have a meaningful infrastructure to support it?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Some of you are moving the goal posts quite a bit from where they were when the Kings re-signed Kopitar. At that time it was all about, he will be fine for the next four or five years while the Kings are still winning, then the cap hit won't be that bad by the time we get into the later years of the contract, because the cap will go up.

At the time of the signing, the Kings were in 1st place, and in the top 5 overall. The roster had yet to completely fall apart. DL wasn't about giving up in the summer of 2015, and it doesn't matter how smart he was, or how great of a negotiator, he's not getting rid of Kopitar in the same year as he got Lucic.

I never said Kopitar would be a lousy player. My concern was around a contract that provides little benefit to the organization in terms of competing for a Stanley Cup. The Kings are likely not going to be contenders by the end of his deal. Now we have gone from Kings need him to win now (back when he signed) to Kopitar will be a great mentor for the kids.

When conditions change, you have to adapt. At the time, they were trying to win with their #1C. Now that they didn't win again and they suck, you have to take advantage of Kopitar somehow, since he's not going anywhere, so it's time to move goalposts to something much more humble. That of veteran mentor.

Otherwise we never move on from the signing. We'll just keep rehashing everything. He was signed, it's done, they tried to go one way, it didn't work, and now it's something else. Whoever said giving him the contract would be a mistake for the success of the team, they were right.

Consider the cost of the opportunity lost, because the Kings stuck to the traditional model (one that inevitably fails). Kopitar isn't the only opportunity missed, and I am not saying the Kings had to take every opportunity that presented itself, but they failed to exercise any of the opportunities presented which would have really kick started a rebuild. I am speaking of Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty primarily.

And they weren't trying to rebuild at any point when those opportunities presented themselves. Whether or not a rebuild was the better idea at any of those points of opportunity is irrelevant. They weren't trying to rebuild. They were trying to add to what had already been built. Whether or not what had already been built had rotted away by then, also irrelevant. The plan at every opportunity was to keep going. Until everything began completely falling apart in Sept 2018.

Everyone that has ever said anything negative about every move after the win in 2014 is correct. At every opportunity since Jazz Hands, up until they finally got rid of Pearson, even if they had to suck it up and sell low on him, the Kings did the wrong thing. Or, at best, the less than optimal option. Some even say trading Pearson and firing Stevens were incorrect panic moves. However, at no point between June 2014 and November 2018, were they trying to rebuild. It would've been good to start rebuilding during and after 14-15, when things started going south, and the franchise was even entangled in non-hockey legal messes, but they didn't. They should've, but didn't.

Those that saw a mediocre future due to poor personnel choices, they were 100% correct in their assessment, at the time, in the moment, and today. Like the Cups though, it's time to let those decisions go. No matter how much they shouldn't have given Kopitar that contract, they did, and now the team is where it is. No matter how much Carter should've been traded in 2017, he wasn't, and now the team is where it is. What more is there to want? Nobody can fix the cost of the opportunity lost.

The Kings likely won't be contenders by 2024. You were right on the post-2014 stuff, so you're probably right on this one too. Ok, now what? Does someone have to sneak into the Kings office and rip up/delete every copy of Kopitar's contract? Up until 2024, they're going to keep operating an NHL franchise. They'll keep drafting and making whatever moves they make. It's likely having Kopitar at his hit won't help them ice a contender. Ok, now what?

 

[FrozenKing18]

View attachment 325053

Omg please dont let these eventually become one of our regular jerseys

 

[Telos]

Robitaille does mess with our jerseys too much.

 

[KINGS17]

By your command!!

 

[KINGS17]

At the time of the signing, the Kings were in 1st place, and in the top 5 overall. The roster had yet to completely fall apart. DL wasn't about giving up in the summer of 2015, and it doesn't matter how smart he was, or how great of a negotiator, he's not getting rid of Kopitar in the same year as he got Lucic.



When conditions change, you have to adapt. At the time, they were trying to win with their #1C. Now that they didn't win again and they suck, you have to take advantage of Kopitar somehow, since he's not going anywhere, so it's time to move goalposts to something much more humble. That of veteran mentor.

Otherwise we never move on from the signing. We'll just keep rehashing everything. He was signed, it's done, they tried to go one way, it didn't work, and now it's something else. Whoever said giving him the contract would be a mistake for the success of the team, they were right.



And they weren't trying to rebuild at any point when those opportunities presented themselves. Whether or not a rebuild was the better idea at any of those points of opportunity is irrelevant. They weren't trying to rebuild. They were trying to add to what had already been built. Whether or not what had already been built had rotted away by then, also irrelevant. The plan at every opportunity was to keep going. Until everything began completely falling apart in Sept 2018.

Everyone that has ever said anything negative about every move after the win in 2014 is correct. At every opportunity since Jazz Hands, up until they finally got rid of Pearson, even if they had to suck it up and sell low on him, the Kings did the wrong thing. Or, at best, the less than optimal option. Some even say trading Pearson and firing Stevens were incorrect panic moves. However, at no point between June 2014 and November 2018, were they trying to rebuild. It would've been good to start rebuilding during and after 14-15, when things started going south, and the franchise was even entangled in non-hockey legal messes, but they didn't. They should've, but didn't.

Those that saw a mediocre future due to poor personnel choices, they were 100% correct in their assessment, at the time, in the moment, and today. Like the Cups though, it's time to let those decisions go. No matter how much they shouldn't have given Kopitar that contract, they did, and now the team is where it is. No matter how much Carter should've been traded in 2017, he wasn't, and now the team is where it is. What more is there to want? Nobody can fix the cost of the opportunity lost.

The Kings likely won't be contenders by 2024. You were right on the post-2014 stuff, so you're probably right on this one too. Ok, now what? Does someone have to sneak into the Kings office and rip up/delete every copy of Kopitar's contract? Up until 2024, they're going to keep operating an NHL franchise. They'll keep drafting and making whatever moves they make. It's likely having Kopitar at his hit won't help them ice a contender. Ok, now what?

I think for the now what part, they have to just buckle down and take every opportunity stockpile assets, bide their time, and hope to get lucky in the lottery. We will see if the leadership of this organization and its development staff are capable of producing a contending team.

I am not a fan of Rob Blake the player, but he has made the initial paint-by-numbers steps to get things moving back in a better direction. If we don't see some of the young prospects in the AHL make the necessary steps to develop and contribute in the NHL within the next couple of seasons, it's probably time to overhaul the development staff, and possibly fire Blake. If that occurs, I would hope AEG would look outside the organization for a fresh approach.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What you fail to recognize is that you don't have to look outside the maximize assets angle in every single one of them. Do it for one of them, or two of them, not for all of them.

Who was the Kings Kopitar or Doughty before they arrived? The Kings are next to DFL with them. They can be next to DFL without one of them.

Somehow without a Kopitar or Doughty to be the example back in 2006, Dean Lombardi still managed to build a Stanley Cup championship caliber team for three seasons. There is no need to fill that role this instant. The Kings suck right now with them filling the role. Look to new blood to step in and fill that role.

I mean, that point kind of kicks its own ass, doesn't it?

It was a rudderless ship just throwing youth to the wolves with few good vets in line to help them grow.

How many liferings did Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, Florida get before they got out of the gutter? Do you want a decade rebuild instead? I'm not sure I want to see Turcotte get his teeth get kicked in by McDavid for the first five years of his career, do you? How much better is, say, RNH now that he doesn't have to face Kopitar, Getzlaf every night?

Edit: I mean I think I agreed with you in another thread that this could be another "sign Handzus" situation but where's/who's that guy to be signed?

 

[KINGS17]

I mean, that point kind of kicks its own ass, doesn't it?

It was a rudderless ship just throwing youth to the wolves with few good vets in line to help them grow.

How many liferings did Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, Florida get before they got out of the gutter? Do you want a decade rebuild instead? I'm not sure I want to see Turcotte get his teeth get kicked in by McDavid for the first five years of his career, do you? How much better is, say, RNH now that he doesn't have to face Kopitar, Getzlaf every night?

Edit: I mean I think I agreed with you in another thread that this could be another "sign Handzus" situation but where's/who's that guy to be signed?

I don't think we are that far apart here. I have never said move all of them out. When Kopitar's deal came up I said let's move him and keep Carter. After they re-signed Kopitar I said they should look into moving Carter. Then we moved on to Doughty who was a generational talent for several years. Keeping one or two of them is fine. All of them? It's too late now probably.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I mean, that point kind of kicks its own ass, doesn't it?

It was a rudderless ship just throwing youth to the wolves with few good vets in line to help them grow.

How many liferings did Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, Florida get before they got out of the gutter? Do you want a decade rebuild instead? I'm not sure I want to see Turcotte get his teeth get kicked in by McDavid for the first five years of his career, do you? How much better is, say, RNH now that he doesn't have to face Kopitar, Getzlaf every night?

Edit: I mean I think I agreed with you in another thread that this could be another "sign Handzus" situation but where's/who's that guy to be signed?

Doughty led the team in ice time as a rookie. RNH is better today because better players are ahead of him, but it's not like he wasn't individually productive prior to McDavid. Part of moving out Belanger was to open up a spot on the roster for a 19 year old Kopitar.

When you're talking about the higher end players, there is some development that comes into play, but I tend to fall into the camp where if you have "it", you're probably going to be ok, despite any missing teeth. If losing early cracks you, then you didn't have it. Or at least enough of it to overcome adversity. That's life's filter. How we find out who is exceptional, and then they get all the rewards that come with that. Also, put RNH in another draft, and he may not have been the #1 guy. That also comes into play. Every #1 pick isn't equal. Same way there aren't 31 #1C's or D's. Numerically there are, but in reality there might be 10-15.

With Turcotte, we have to wait and see. Whoever they get this year, wait and see. Vilardi, wait and see. If these guys aren't top of the line good, or they don't get exceedingly lucky with a 5th rd pick, then the Kings will likely be rebuilding until 2030. The first portion of this decade will have been wasted seeing if these guys are good, and then the whole process has to start over again.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I’m really bored with the Kopitar, Brown and Iafallo line especially when Forbort and Doughty are back there. The whole team is in transition but that 5 is stale.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Omg please dont let these eventually become one of our regular jerseys

I could see the Kings trying to be the first team in the league to use chrome helmets. It would generate some of the old "LA has a hockey team?" news stories.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

May I ask why? Vilardi profiles as a prototypical center; his passing ability, puck control, and hockey IQ is through the roof.

Well here's the why...he isn't a great skater though he does pass well enough. I'm wondering about his strength too...don't get me wrong I'm glad the kid has proved his doubters wrong(thought after nearly 2 years away he was cooked) including me. He isn't an upgrade over Carter though he's cheaper and a lot younger

 

[DAkings20]

Friedman speculated on HNIC that Trevor Lewis will probably have interest from a bunch of teams(East/West)

 

[No Name The Nameless]

If the Kings don't get a top 2 pick I'm down to trade all of these picks and our first pick to get into the top two. They have solid prospects up and down their system. They don't need more.

 

[Telos]

Friedman speculated on HNIC that Trevor Lewis will probably have interest from a bunch of teams(East/West)

Honestly, one of the best things Blake did, in my opinion, was getting the main pieces out of the way before the deadline. He makes it so that the market is stronger for spare parts and also has the time to put his full attention into moving spare parts rather than panicking to move big pieces at the last second. He set a fair price early on and he sold once that price was met and went unbeaten. He's giving our scouting and development team the best possible chance at turning this around. Honestly, we can now just sign some stop-gap players, watch, and let it grow.