2019-20 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3: Uncharted

[Felonious Python]

this is a false statement.

Yahoo tracker
MLB opt-out tracker: Every player who has declined to play 2020 season

 

[HoseEmDown]

this is a false statement.

I don't follow baseball closely so didn't read the full article but the way the headline read it seemed more of that then because of Covid fears.

 

[Todd1a]

No kidding, jesus the guy looks even bigger now that he doesn't have to worry about being agile. Next season will be a shortened one, the guy should consider a comeback, we could use cheap scoring and maybe his kids could use extra college tuition funds.

would not happen guy has enough money and retired to be home fully involved in his kids lives. But of course all his kids play hockey will they have youth hockey by October? They do travel hockey and Marty coaches there teams

 

[T REX]

I don't follow baseball closely so didn't read the full article but the way the headline read it seemed more of that then because of Covid fears.

Nats' Zimmerman won't play in '20, citing family

 

[HoseEmDown]

Nats' Zimmerman won't play in '20, citing family

I didn't see that one I only saw the Ian Desmond one.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Disadvantage? Do your limbs start falling off when you get infected? Our window isn't ending soon. Our oldest core player is Stamkos who just turned 30, still looks good and is signed 4 more years. We will be fine.

It’s called a salary cap bro. Our window is shorter than you think.
And yes a Covid positive player will be at a disadvantage. It’s not debatable

 

[Felonious Python]

It's weird that the NHL/PA being pretty dang close to a new CBA is side news. Like it's not going to dominate the industry for a year again.

2020, man.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

It's weird that the NHL/PA being pretty dang close to a new CBA is side news. Like it's not going to dominate the industry for a year again.

2020, man.

I think the silver lining for the pandemic and hockey was that it kind of forced the hand of the PA and the League to sort out a new CBA.

 

[Felonious Python]

I think the silver lining for the pandemic and hockey was that it kind of forced the hand of the PA and the League to sort out a new CBA.

Social distancing would force that conclave...

 

[HoseEmDown]

It’s called a salary cap bro. Our window is shorter than you think.
And yes a Covid positive player will be at a disadvantage. It’s not debatable

We currently have 15 players under contract for next year with roughly 5.33M in capspace. Promote Foote, sign Verheaghe, Joseph, Stephens and Volkov to 800k or lower contracts. We have a 20 man roster with 1.4M left over, obviously not enough for Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak. Trade Killorn and Paquette without taking back any cap and we have an 18 man roster with 7.5M left. With the flat cap these RFA's aren't going to get a long-term contract and will need to take a cheaper bridge than they may have thought. I would propose Sergachev 3 x 1, Cirelli 2.75 x 1 and Cernak 1.75 x 2. You may say why take that little but it's to give the team another run next year and then they can get their money. Palat and Johnson become modified NTC and the expansion draft. If we work things correctly we can open up 10.3M, Palat and Johnson, or even 15.5 if we get Gourde selected by Seattle. Sergachev and Cirelli can get their money and then the following year Cernak and Point theirs. Our cap is set up kinda nicely over the next few years if the kids are a little patient with getting paid.

As for the Covid player please explain how they're at a disadvantage? The player will most likely be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms which will resolve in a short time. I fail to see how Covid is going to effect any player that bad we are at a disadvantage.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

We currently have 15 players under contract for next year with roughly 5.33M in capspace. Promote Foote, sign Verheaghe, Joseph, Stephens and Volkov to 800k or lower contracts. We have a 20 man roster with 1.4M left over, obviously not enough for Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak. Trade Killorn and Paquette without taking back any cap and we have an 18 man roster with 7.5M left. With the flat cap these RFA's aren't going to get a long-term contract and will need to take a cheaper bridge than they may have thought. I would propose Sergachev 3 x 1, Cirelli 2.75 x 1 and Cernak 1.75 x 2. You may say why take that little but it's to give the team another run next year and then they can get their money. Palat and Johnson become modified NTC and the expansion draft. If we work things correctly we can open up 10.3M, Palat and Johnson, or even 15.5 if we get Gourde selected by Seattle. Sergachev and Cirelli can get their money and then the following year Cernak and Point theirs. Our cap is set up kinda nicely over the next few years if the kids are a little patient with getting paid.

As for the Covid player please explain how they're at a disadvantage? The player will most likely be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms which will resolve in a short time. I fail to see how Covid is going to effect any player that bad we are at a disadvantage.

“Player will most likely be asymptotic” is a pretty naive statement. This has proven to not be true.

How are they at a disadvantage? Covid or any similar illness can moderately to severely hinder lung capacity which goes hand in hand with a players cardio. Combine that with the 2 weeks of training the player missed while resting and you are at a disadvantage.

 

[HoseEmDown]

“Player will most likely be asymptotic” is a pretty naive statement. This has proven to not be true.

How are they at a disadvantage? Covid or any similar illness can moderately to severely hinder lung capacity which goes hand in hand with a players cardio. Combine that with the 2 weeks of training the player missed while resting and you are at a disadvantage.

NBA player Rudy Goebert didn't know he had it, the only thing he said that was off was his smell. NFL player Ezekiel Elliot didn't know he had it, said maybe one or two days he felt something like a cold. UFC fighter Ronaldo Souza was asymptotic and felt fine. 3 Juventus soccer players had it but didn't mention symptoms and are back player. Who's the active professional athletes that were hit hard by Covid?

Why do they have to miss training for 2 weeks? Sure they probably can't go to the teams facility in that time but that doesn't mean they can't train. I'm sure most of these guys have equipment at home they can workout with or they can just go for a run. Being Covid positive doesn't mean you're going to have respiratory issues, it's very possible but not guaranteed. These guys won't be sitting on the couch watching Netflix for two weeks waiting to retest.

 

[Felonious Python]

Sports cardiologist explains why athletes with COVID-19 symptoms need cardiac testing before playing games

"This particular virus causes more problems with the heart than any other virus so that's why we're being particularly careful," Dr. Phelan told CBS Sports. "That's why we're being more conservative in terms of our recommendations for return to play. We have data from hospitalized patients that show between seven and 33 percent of people will have some cardiac injury after getting COVID-19."

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sports cardiologist explains why athletes with COVID-19 symptoms need cardiac testing before playing games

And if you read the article it says they plan on testing players daily. So if anything comes up they'll find it quickly and get the player treated appropriately. It also doesn't say what age those people were who had the cardiac issues. The majority of the first wave were the elderly, so if these results are from that group I wouldn't be surprised by that. But if 33% of healthy people under 40 are having cardiac issues then I can see the level of concern and fear.

 

[Felonious Python]

And if you read the article it says they plan on testing players daily. So if anything comes up they'll find it quickly and get the player treated appropriately. It also doesn't say what age those people were who had the cardiac issues. The majority of the first wave were the elderly, so if these results are from that group I wouldn't be surprised by that. But if 33% of healthy people under 40 are having cardiac issues then I can see the level of concern and fear.

I don't know if he means 7-33% of everyone who gets COVID are projected to have cardiac injuries, or if it's 7-33% of hospitalized patients, but it's lungs and hearts and whatever else COVID does to worry about.

also in the article.

If the virus penetrates into the heart muscle, patients could experience myocarditis, an inflammation of the middle layer of the heart wall caused by a viral infection.
"If you have myocarditis, exercise actually makes the disease worse," Dr. Phelan told CBS Sports. "So it increases the viral replication and it increases the likelihood of dangerous rhythms of the heart and sudden cardiac arrest."

Hockey players have that warrior mentality in the playoffs that we love so much, which is where I start to get concerned. It shouldn't happen with daily testing, but I can also very much see guys trying to play through it. The tests aren't perfect.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I don't know if he means 7-33% of everyone who gets COVID are projected to have cardiac injuries, or if it's 7-33% of hospitalized patients, but it's lungs and hearts and whatever else COVID does to worry about.

also in the article.


Hockey players have that warrior mentality in the playoffs that we love so much, which is where I start to get concerned. It shouldn't happen with daily testing, but I can also very much see guys trying to play through it. The tests aren't perfect.

If a player has an abnormal EKG or elevated troponin levels in their blood they aren’t playing. So I don't care how tough they think they are the league will absolutely not let them play. The Bouwmeester issue and others like that are usually from something that wasn't detected in the preseason tests. I don't believe they test the players after the initial camp screening so something could develop from that point and not be detected till a problem arises. With the way this seems to be they'll be testing so frequently that any issue like that would be spotted quickly and the player treated appropriately. These guys are going to be tested more in a week than most people do in a lifetime.

 

[Felonious Python]

If a player has an abnormal EKG or elevated troponin levels in their blood they aren’t playing. So I don't care how tough they think they are the league will absolutely not let them play. The Bouwmeester issue and others like that are usually from something that wasn't detected in the preseason tests. I don't believe they test the players after the initial camp screening so something could develop from that point and not be detected till a problem arises. With the way this seems to be they'll be testing so frequently that any issue like that would be spotted quickly and the player treated appropriately. These guys are going to be tested more in a week than most people do in a lifetime.

Right, but the league and teams should drill into guys to not solely focus on test results deciding if they're healthy or not. If they feel symptoms, they have to inform the team.

 

[Todd1a]

We currently have 15 players under contract for next year with roughly 5.33M in capspace. Promote Foote, sign Verheaghe, Joseph, Stephens and Volkov to 800k or lower contracts. We have a 20 man roster with 1.4M left over, obviously not enough for Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak. Trade Killorn and Paquette without taking back any cap and we have an 18 man roster with 7.5M left. With the flat cap these RFA's aren't going to get a long-term contract and will need to take a cheaper bridge than they may have thought. I would propose Sergachev 3 x 1, Cirelli 2.75 x 1 and Cernak 1.75 x 2. You may say why take that little but it's to give the team another run next year and then they can get their money. Palat and Johnson become modified NTC and the expansion draft. If we work things correctly we can open up 10.3M, Palat and Johnson, or even 15.5 if we get Gourde selected by Seattle. Sergachev and Cirelli can get their money and then the following year Cernak and Point theirs. Our cap is set up kinda nicely over the next few years if the kids are a little patient with getting paid.

As for the Covid player please explain how they're at a disadvantage? The player will most likely be asymptomatic or have minor symptoms which will resolve in a short time. I fail to see how Covid is going to effect any player that bad we are at a disadvantage.

no way sergachev, cirelli or cernak take one year deals they get at least 2-3 year contracts. We know how Brisebois works sergachev and cirelli will get 3 year deals Killorn and something else will move out. Cernak I could see him doing a one year deal maybe but probably not he probably gets 3 years

 

[CupsOverCash]

I'm worried about losing some players that we don't want to lose but I still feel like the team will be good and contenders still with those losses. It will hurt but think they have a great core and is still young. They will contend for a while but will lose some players as the years go. Gotta get it before that window closes.

 

[T REX]

I didn't see that one I only saw the Ian Desmond one.

Sorry. I wasn't try to pick on you

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Let’s talk line combos. Assuming we’re fully healthy what are we looking at!

 

[Sky04]

So before the Stamkos injury our top-6 was on fire but the bottom-6 was a mess,

Palat-Point-Kucherov
Stamkos-Cirelli-Killorn

and a bunch of line juggling with the other guys, we could always "stack" the lines to the above if we need but I think if we want to get the most out of every player we'd need lines like:

Killorn-Stamkos-Kucherov
Johnson-Point-Gourde
Palat-Cirelli-Coleman
Maroon-Paquette-Goodrow

Johnson and Gourde have been pretty much non factors when not playing with Point for over a year now and that's 10.5m in capspace wasted if they don't perform.

 

[Todd1a]

Ya that’s not happening NHL

NHL remains determined to have 82-game season in 2020-21 | TradeRumours.com

 

[HoseEmDown]

no way sergachev, cirelli or cernak take one year deals they get at least 2-3 year contracts. We know how Brisebois works sergachev and cirelli will get 3 year deals Killorn and something else will move out. Cernak I could see him doing a one year deal maybe but probably not he probably gets 3 years

Where's the money coming from? They can want a 3 year deal all they want we just can't give it to them. Sergachev and Cirelli would be getting 2M+ raises from what they currently are making and Cernak 1M. Sergachev isn't getting more than 5M and Cirelli 4.75M so really they are just taking 2M less for one year. We can do a 2 year bridge with them next season at 1M more than they would've got this offseason and the total money ends up the same. These guys are going to need to sacrifice some money if they want to stay in Tampa. All players who are UFA or RFA the next couple of years are going to have to take less than they thought they'd get. It's just the way it's going to be in all sports leagues the next few years.