WC: 2018 - Team Switzerland

[stv11]

More and more swiss nhlers and always so less available for Switzerland. Baerstchi always injured, Malgin not allowed to come ( but why? Cause some injuries??), guy like Sbisa who ll play the playoff but already said he had too much physical problem to play with Switzerland. Without talking about players who arrive at the contract end and dont want to be hurt.
Really disappointed with these stuffs after the NO from Bettman in South Korea. God i love the NHL, but it is the worst ennemy from National team.
I begin to wonder if we ll have one in the team. When I see Germany can enjoy Draisailt every years and we struggle to have one in the team.

Sorry for the negativity but it has to come out

Yes, that's pretty much why I stopped caring about the NHL. That and their regular lockouts, the circus around Olympic participation and their clumsy attempts at international tournaments.

Really don't understand why Fischer isn't at least giving a look to Maurer/Kreis and maybe even Diem.

I'd have taken a look at them, but for all we know it's possible they've been asked and declined. Or maybe Fischer saw enough of them earlier this season.

It's not like the national team is doing tactics drills and special teams training under Fischer anyway, so he might just as well use the camp to screen a few alternatives who had decent playoffs...

I remember that one of the biggest critic against Fischer and a reason for hiring Albelin that the system was too complicated, so I doubt they completely stopped doing tactical drills.

 

[duga]

Yes, that's pretty much why I stopped caring about the NHL. That and their regular lockouts, the circus around Olympic participation and their clumsy attempts at international tournaments.

It's really a shame the way the guys in charge of the NHL treat the players, the fans and the game itself.

On the other hand, with so many disappointed members of the international hockey family, timing would be perfect too to try to strenghen the structures of hockey in Europe...
But to gain a little chance that would mean to brake with european sport-structural traditions, get rid of domestical demands and leagues (at the very top), and go all pan-european (incl. Russia, or the western part of it) and place some teams in big cities of non-traditional markets as well. (Paris, London, Milano, Amsterdam...maybe even go as south as Rome, Barcelona or Istanbul)

Unfortunately, Europeans are traditionally not very good at finding a consensus

I know it works well in football otherwise. But european football is traditionally super dominant and has nowhere near the competition as it's in hockey where the NHL bundels so much money, power, tradition and presence. And even if some of the regional football leagues in Europe still prosper and have the presence, the big players (Munich, Madrid etc.) have tried for a long time to reorganise and regroup in a permanent "champions league".

That said. Id do a straight-up trade
McDavid, Malkin, Laine vs. Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski in a heartbeat.

 

[duga]

And yeah, no Malgin really sukks!

Blum, I hoped, he'd skip just this season. But he has definitely paid his dues internationally. Will be missed unquestionably.
Many thanks for years of smart and plucky hockey!

D-depth gets thinner and thinner...

At least everybody else is on bord from Bern. Even Genoni and Rüfenacht, who I thought could say no for once.

 

[stv11]

It's really a shame the way the guys in charge of the NHL treat the players, the fans and the game itself.

On the other hand, with so many disappointed members of the international hockey family, timing would be perfect too to try to strenghen the structures of hockey in Europe...
But to gain a little chance that would mean to brake with european sport-structural traditions, get rid of domestical demands and leagues (at the very top), and go all pan-european (incl. Russia, or the western part of it) and place some teams in big cities of non-traditional markets as well. (Paris, London, Milano, Amsterdam...maybe even go as south as Rome, Barcelona or Istanbul)

Unfortunately, Europeans are traditionally not very good at finding a consensus

I know it works well in football otherwise. But european football is traditionally super dominant and has nowhere near the competition as it's in hockey where the NHL bundels so much money, power, tradition and presence. And even if some of the regional football leagues in Europe still prosper and have the presence, the big players (Munich, Madrid etc.) have tried for a long time to reorganise and regroup in a permanent "champions league".

That said. Id do a straight-up trade
McDavid, Malkin, Laine vs. Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski in a heartbeat.

Such a move would just result in a European version of the NHL and create a world with not one but two leagues working against the rest of the hockey world. I'm afraid there is no solution to this problem, unless NHL fans have a reaction similar to that of baseball fans after the 95 strike.

And the UEFA Champions' League isn't exactly the best thing to ever happen to football, unless you happen to be a season ticket holder for one of the few teams that can afford to sign a single player for more than 10 times the entire budget of 99.99% of all the football teams in the world. It's crazy to think that Nottingham Forrest, Steaua, PSV or Red Star were European champion in my lifetime. Now these teams are fighting for the right to be easily disposed of by one of the giants.

Anyway, this is way off topic, back to the national team. Malgin's case is a shame, but in the end this is a loss the team can afford, the center situation has improved a lot recently, and he didn't bring much last year (although I'd expect him to improve a lot at his age). I'm more worried about the defense, if nobody from North America comes, we're looking at a best case scenario of Diaz, Untersander, Loeffel, Genazzi, Furrer, Geering, Fora and a depth player (Sutter?, Marti?). Not bad players, but no one you'd want to play against world class forwards either.

 

[duga]

Such a move would just result in a European version of the NHL and create a world with not one but two leagues working against the rest of the hockey world. I'm afraid there is no solution to this problem, unless NHL fans have a reaction similar to that of baseball fans after the 95 strike.

And the UEFA Champions' League isn't exactly the best thing to ever happen to football, unless you happen to be a season ticket holder for one of the few teams that can afford to sign a single player for more than 10 times the entire budget of 99.99% of all the football teams in the world. It's crazy to think that Nottingham Forrest, Steaua, PSV or Red Star were European champion in my lifetime. Now these teams are fighting for the right to be easily disposed of by one of the giants.

Anyway, this is way off topic, back to the national team. Malgin's case is a shame, but in the end this is a loss the team can afford, the center situation has improved a lot recently, and he didn't bring much last year (although I'd expect him to improve a lot at his age). I'm more worried about the defense, if nobody from North America comes, we're looking at a best case scenario of Diaz, Untersander, Loeffel, Genazzi, Furrer, Geering, Fora and a depth player (Sutter?, Marti?). Not bad players, but no one you'd want to play against world class forwards either.

I know, it's far from perfect. And highly unlikely anyway. It would mean a huge load of organisational work and money to get something like this rolling, with immense risks involved. And as long as the EU and the Bosman-verdict are still standing, I think, you'll have a hard time organising something over here as rigid with the players rights as the NHL is.

As my knowledge about Baseball is limited only to its stereotypes. Im totally unaware of anything any baseballfans did at anytime beside doing stereotypy things. I might have to look it up though.

And I'm totally with you about the current state of football in Europe, that's why my interest in it has faded over the last decade into total oblivion.

That brings me to the one last off-topicish thing to say. One really good thing the NHL offers though (beside the excellent payment of course), is the salary-cap, it's one of the more socialist things I happened to hear about american culture.
That's a tool that could help a lot to solve certain structural issues in european sports in general as well. The draft, as tempting as it is. I'm not so sure it would work with the way junior teams are part of the organisations of the big clubs.
(We might need a separate thread to continue that discussion though.)



We definitely are in a more comfortable situation concerning centermen. So to compensate Malgin's loss is possible. But it's a pity anyway.

Beside Josi, I don't think there's any defensman right know in NA, who could lead the team in a similar manner as Streit was capable of. Müller and Siegenthaler might get there, Kukan is missing the urge to be a leader, Sbisa the hockey sense, Weber a few things. So unless Josi gets traded to Buffalo soon, we might have to deal with defensmen group with good depth but no leading pair?

 

[jonas2244]

Rathgeb has IMHO the upside to do so. Not on the same level as Josi and Streit, but he's smart and has the personality to lead.
Great move by Diaz, by the way. He's older than Blum, played a lot this season too, could have drawn out without anyone really being angry. But he's there supporting the team and the young guys.

It's strange that NHL-players get ruled out to play for Switzerland without giving a reason.
Malgin was injured during the season, didn't play that much. It should be in the interest of the Panters if he got some more games on a good level.

 

[duga]

Rathgeb has IMHO the upside to do so. Not on the same level as Josi and Streit, but he's smart and has the personality to lead.
Great move by Diaz, by the way. He's older than Blum, played a lot this season too, could have drawn out without anyone really being angry. But he's there supporting the team and the young guys.

It's strange that NHL-players get ruled out to play for Switzerland without giving a reason.
Malgin was injured during the season, didn't play that much. It should be in the interest of the Panters if he got some more games on a good level.

Indeed Rathgeb is the one guy standing out of the swiss league. He has got bunches of talent and the drive to be a leader. But he has either to bulk up a bit more, or start going a bit less reckless into battles. He's injured way too much. So that we acctually get the chance to see him on international level eventually.

To be fair with Blum, with a sport as demanding to the body as hockey, guys 30+years of age oftenly react differently to the long time wearout physically and mentally. Blum played a ton of heavy minutes hockey over the last 5 years with long POs most of the time and WHC or OG and all the other international games. Unlike Diaz who beside last year never had long runs in the PO. Played partly in a better league, but never a full season and in a much smaller role, played a lot internationally as well but no prep games. And when you watched Blum over this season, he wasn't flying anymore as he used to, he seems a bit spent. Maybe he will reverse his desicion next year, if he feels fresh again after the season?

It seems sometimes the GMs just throw a dice: "well, if it counts 7 or more- we might let you go to WHCs"

 

[stv11]

Blum isn't even 32, that's definitely not old for a defenseman. Streit, Seger, Vauclair, Plüss, Gardner and Rüthemann all played international hockey at 35 or older.

 

[jonas2244]

I'm not sure if Fischer should call Praplan and Hollenstein ...

 

[stv11]

Thoughts about tonight's game?

I would say it was better than last week. Pretty good defensively, more aggressive in the defensive zone than against the Czech Republic, but not much creativity on offense and the power play could be improved. Deserved win in the end, although it ended up being closer than necessary.

Solid game by Senn, and I thought Fora was the best defenseman. Geisser showed some potential, but also made some rookie mistakes, and Frick and Zryd were ok. Paschould had some good physical presence but is just too clumsy with the puck for this level, and stupidly interrupted a 3 on 2 by starting a fight. I'm more worried about Loeffel and Genazzi. Loeffel did fine offensively but didn't look good on the first Belarus goal and had some poor plays in the defensive zone. Genazzi I thought was awful, many stupid plays like that icing with 2 minutes left and he wasn't the offensive leader he should be.

Corvi tried to create a lot, sometimes maybe a bit too much, and was the most dangerous forward. Vermin had an unspectacular but very good game, did many little things right. No winger really stood out, but I thought Mottet did fine and Suri showed his experience and did many things right. Riat, Wick and Lammer failed to impress, especially Riat who wasted many good scoring chances.

 

[jonas2244]

I agree on most of the points, Senn was plain solid and Fora the best defensemen. This probably also helped Geisser who had a solid game and showed that he is not at the wrong place. Of course he'll need one or two years to develop to play at a WC, but I'm pretty sure that point isn't far away. Frick was much better than Paschoud and he could play WC with a limited role I think. Zryd also had a solid game but I don't see a WC-upside there.
Genazzi was not good, indeed. Loeffel looked like a rookie on that goal. But beside that he made his job. Diaz still not at 100%, he also probably won't play on Sunday. I hope he is ready for the WC.

Corvi and Vermin were the two best forwards, Corvi was really active, but failed to create a goal. Vermin had a great assist on that second goal and played a good overall game in the offensive but also in the defensive zone. The rest didn't impress but I didn't see someone who don't belongs to this team (at the state it is right now). Mottet had a solid game and a great goal, Riat played with a lot of heart (which was always one of his biggest strengths). Walser was ok, but he just didn't progress in the last years since he played his only WC. Didn't see Simion much.

You just never should compare Suri to the Suri of the WC 2013. He was just very lucky there and he never will be at the same level again. But he is (or can be) a very useful player because he can fill in any role (and takes it with everything he has). He's no game-changer but a very solid, experienced winger which can help the team with his presence.

Minnesotta is 0-2 down

 

[duga]

Strange to watch a prep. game at lunchtime. And I hope, we don't have to listen too often to this announcer from SRF (Blockschuss!) at the WHC. Bührer really is a class above the rest.

Was a bit an up-and-down match today from what I've seen. (Missed half of the 1st and 3rd period) Haven't seen yesterday's game, but reading the comments in here, it seemed to be a similiar case. Corvi looks fine, Im a bit surprised by his intensity. Him and Vermin are definitely standing out when it comes to skills and creativity. I liked Walser's and Albrecht's crease work. But when you got a solid net presence like that on the PP, once in a while the D- man could shot for rebounds and redirections and not always aiming topshelf and hitting the plexi or the Gk's bellybutton every time.

What do you think, who will be the 5-6 cuts?

 

[duga]

Blum isn't even 32, that's definitely not old for a defenseman. Streit, Seger, Vauclair, Plüss, Gardner and Rüthemann all played international hockey at 35 or older.

True when just considering age. But IMO for the big picture you need to look at other parameters as well: mileage, playstyle, size, injury history, mental freshness. Stuff like that.

And the d-men you mentioned, all 3 are true legends, among the swiss all-time greats,qualitywise and with a love and motivation for the game, that doesn't seem to fade. That's more the exception than the rule.

Not that I know the background of Blum's decisionmaking. But when a player feels, he can no longer keep up with the intensity of prolonged seasons for whstever reason, I acctually prefer when he says goodbye like this than taking a rosterspot without being fully motivated or fit. Especially with a player like Blum who played his heart out, everytime he made the team.

I mean, both Streit and Seger, as big legends as they are, missed the moment to hang up the skates by themselves and were/are pushed out of their respective teams, because they were/are simply not able anymore to keep up. Which is a bit sad to look at IMO.

 

[stv11]

Strange to watch a prep. game at lunchtime. And I hope, we don't have to listen too often to this announcer from SRF (Blockschuss!) at the WHC. Bührer really is a class above the rest.

Was a bit an up-and-down match today from what I've seen. (Missed half of the 1st and 3rd period) Haven't seen yesterday's game, but reading the comments in here, it seemed to be a similiar case. Corvi looks fine, Im a bit surprised by his intensity. Him and Vermin are definitely standing out when it comes to skills and creativity. I liked Walser's and Albrecht's crease work. But when you got a solid net presence like that on the PP, once in a while the D- man could shot for rebounds and redirections and not always aiming topshelf and hitting the plexi or the Gk's bellybutton every time.

What do you think, who will be the 5-6 cuts?

Just returned home from the game. I thought it was the best of the four games played so far, although it must be said that Belarus played way below the potential of their roster. Just like on Friday, it was closer than it should have been.

I liked the defense, although Fora wasn't as impressive this time and Geisser made more mistakes. On the other hand, excellent game by Frick, and Genazzi did a lot better than on Friday although sometimes it seemed like he was trying to set a shots on goal record.

Solid game offensively with many more chances created than during the first three games. I agree about Corvi and Vermin being ahead of the rest, and I liked Riat better than on Friday despite him having less highlight worthy plays. Lammer was his usual self, didn't do much most of the time but capable of making the difference was he gets the opportunity.

Regarding the cuts, I don't think there will be as many as 5 or 6. I assume Fischer will keep three goalies, and with Diaz's injury it makes sense to go with 9 defensemen, so no cuts on defense either (if there is one, I would guess it will be Zryd). I guess there will be at least 14 forwards, includings 5 centers, so in the end it leaves only two wingers to cut. I'd go with Rossi, who hasn't shown much and really doesn't know how to use his size, and one of Simion and Wick.

 

[jonas2244]

Calvin Thürkauf seems to get a call, Fischer told SRF after the game. That's great.

Reto Suri has been cut.

 

[jonas2244]

Cuts:
Miro Zryd (SCL Tigers), Matthias Rossi (HC Fribourg-Gottéron), Dario Simion (HC Davos), Reto Suri (EV Zug) und Jeremy Wick (Genève-Servette HC).

Added beside those already known from the SC Bern:
Calvin Thürkauf, Noah Rod.

 

[swisdan]

In: Rod and Thurkauf
Out: Zryd, Rossi, Simion, Suri and Wick.

I have hard time to understand what Mottet doing there. Good scorer but would be useless at international tournament.

 

[stv11]

Suri is a bit surprising, I thought he did fine during the games. Thürkauf will be interesting to see. On the other hand, I don't think Rod is better than the five centers already on the roster.

 

[jonas2244]

Surprising is also that the San Jose Barracudas made the AHL-playoffs and Noah Rod is announced for next week.

 

[duga]

That's really weird with Rod. And if true, probably not the best sign for a future NHL-career.

Thürkauf will be very interesting to follow. A very promising power forward. He'll have tough competition though this year with so many options for that type of role, maybe even with Niederreiter in the race.

I just came up with this 5-6 cuts because they were mentioning it on TV. When I heard it, I thought it's a bit much too. Coincidentally, I guessed excatly the players that were eventually cut. Even if I would like Simion to be part of it, this year really was one to forget about quickly. I hope next year, he'll make the next step. Way too talented, would be a pity if that's all IMO. Del Curto's reputation for developping young talents has quite taken a hit lately. Most of his prospects have been stagnating over the last few years. I hope this is not a trend.

ZSC, Lugano, Kloten, New Jersey, Minnesota, Colorado and Anaheim all are potential 2 games away to increase the options for Fischer significantly.

 

[jonas2244]

I still wonder if he will call Hollenstein and Praplan. I mean they're obviously totally out of shape. Could change in a different environment. But I'm not sure. And Praplan already was very weak at the Olympic games.

 

[Tritsche]

In: Rod and Thurkauf
Out: Zryd, Rossi, Simion, Suri and Wick.

I have hard time to understand what Mottet doing there. Good scorer but would be useless at international tournament.

Well Mottet has scored two Goals in the Pre-Games and was also good in the Playoffs. He has earned those games. But I think in the end he will get cut, too.

 

[duga]

I still wonder if he will call Hollenstein and Praplan. I mean they're obviously totally out of shape. Could change in a different environment. But I'm not sure. And Praplan already was very weak at the Olympic games.

That's a legit question to ask. IMO it depends on their mental status as well. Even if proven players, they both shouldn't get a ticket served on a silver plate, but have to show in camp that they got some fight left.

 

[stv11]

In: Rod and Thurkauf
Out: Zryd, Rossi, Simion, Suri and Wick.

I have hard time to understand what Mottet doing there. Good scorer but would be useless at international tournament.

I would have thought that he'd be the first cut as he wasn't even part of the initial roster. Skates well enough and decent scorer but can't handle the physicality of international hockey, but he played pretty well during the exhibition games and has earned his spot.

That's a legit question to ask. IMO it depends on their mental status as well. Even if proven players, they both shouldn't get a ticket served on a silver plate, but have to show in camp that they got some fight left.

The problem is, will they even get a chance to show it? They might be still playing for Kloten until April 26, which is too late to join the team in time to play against Latvia. The timing doesn't work very well this year.

Anyone saw Kloten play lately? I wonder if they are really as bad as the stats suggest or if they are dragged down by a team that is going nowhere.

 

[rimpirate]

Anyone saw Kloten play lately? I wonder if they are really as bad as the stats suggest or if they are dragged down by a team that is going nowhere.

On the other hand, how could they be expected to carry the offense on the national team if they can't even carry Kloten against Rappi. I'd also expect the late addition to work against them.
The situation is somewhat similar to 2013 when Moser got relegated with Langnau, but went on to be an important puzzle piece in the silver run. However, Moser was by and large the best player on a weak team, whereas Hollenstein and Praplan have been at best invisible.