2018 summer prospect camp scrimmage 7/6

[KirbyDots]

I don’t think he did. I didn’t see him once and I was looking for him.

Good, I was worried I missed him. No, I didn't see him either.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Merkley did clearly stand out. The only way that you could read these posts or watch the game and say that Merkley didn’t stand out is if you’re extremely biased against him. Oh wait...

I was responding to someone who hadn't seen the scrimmage commenting that Norris wasn't good enough.

Was irony

 

[Sharksrule04]

Even Tierney looked like a stud in prospect scrimmages and even training camp scrimmages against NHLers. If Norris didn't clearly stand out (not saying he did or he didn't, I wasn't there) that's not encouraging.

This just sounds like blatant negativity. I know everyone was down on that pick including myself but if people are saying he looked like an NHL center as a 19 year old and that he has top 6 potential, why is there a need to constantly doubt it? If Norris turns into a 2nd line center, I will consider that pick a win. If he’s standing out against the organizations top prospects many of which are older than him and some who have played in the AHL, I will take that as progress over what was reported from last season.

 

[Maladroit]

I was responding to someone who hadn't seen the scrimmage commenting that Norris wasn't good enough.

Was irony

Yes, and I clearly stated in the post I did not see the scrimmage. I'm just going off what other people who did have commented about it. The consensus among those who were there seems to be that Merkley was head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of offensive skill while Norris looked good but didn't dominate. If I'm wrong about that I would love for someone who was actually there (i.e., not you) to correct me.

Also it's just one game (not even a real game) and should not be used to draw conclusions about Norris or Merkley. Norris' lackluster development to this point and Merkley's unparalleled OHL production tell us much more about these two prospects.

 

[Maladroit]

This just sounds like blatant negativity. I know everyone was down on that pick including myself but if people are saying he looked like an NHL center as a 19 year old and that he has top 6 potential, why is there a need to constantly doubt it? If Norris turns into a 2nd line center, I will consider that pick a win. If he’s standing out against the organizations top prospects many of which are older than him and some who have played in the AHL, I will take that as progress over what was reported from last season.

Well, the Norris pick seems to have been the last straw in Tim Burke's embarrassing amateur scouting career so I don't think pessimism about him as a prospect is unwarranted. Of course it's a win if he turns into a #2 center but it's questionable as to whether he'll even play in the NHL at this point given his performance at Michigan this season.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Yes, and I clearly stated in the post I did not see the scrimmage. I'm just going off what other people who did have commented about it. The consensus among those who were there seems to be that Merkley was head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of offensive skill while Norris looked good but didn't dominate. If I'm wrong about that I would love for someone who was actually there (i.e., not you) to correct me.

Also it's just one game (not even a real game) and should not be used to draw conclusions about Norris or Merkley. Norris' lackluster development to this point and Merkley's unparalleled OHL production tell us much more about these two prospects.

What is this based on, his stats as a freshman? Did you watch him multiple times? Once again I’m not high on this pick but it sounds like you just want to be negative despite everyone mostly having positives to say about Norris. If people said he had a horrible game, would you be responding with ‘it was just one game (not even a real game)” or would you be embracing that review and agreeing that he sucks. From the games I watched last season I wasn’t very impressed with Norris but if a collection of people are saying he looked very good and the Sharks writers are saying he looked good this week, you should be able to put your bias aside for a little bit.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yes, and I clearly stated in the post I did not see the scrimmage. I'm just going off what other people who did have commented about it. The consensus among those who were there seems to be that Merkley was head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of offensive skill while Norris looked good but didn't dominate. If I'm wrong about that I would love for someone who was actually there (i.e., not you) to correct me.

Also it's just one game (not even a real game) and should not be used to draw conclusions about Norris or Merkley. Norris' lackluster development to this point and Merkley's unparalleled OHL production tell us much more about these two prospects.

Like basically everybody has said, nobody was head and shoulders above as in no single player dominated the ice. You're the only one really bashing Norris for this scrimmage. Gambrell, Letunov, and Norris' lines were all very noticeable when they were one the ice.

 

[Maladroit]

What is this based on, his stats as a freshman? Did you watch him multiple times? Once again I’m not high on this pick but it sounds like you just want to be negative despite everyone mostly having positives to say about Norris. If people said he had a horrible game, would you be responding with ‘it was just one game (not even a real game)” or would you be embracing that review and agreeing that he sucks. From the games I watched last season I wasn’t very impressed with Norris but if a collection of people are saying he looked very good and the Sharks writers are saying he looked good this week, you should be able to put your bias aside for a little bit.

I don't have anything against Norris. I don't care about any of these prospects on a personal level. I root for the Sharks and I hope Norris develops into a great player who helps us win a Cup. Unfortunately the historical success rate of prospects who score like Norris has at both the USNTDP and NCAA levels is middling at best. I listed the comparables in another thread. I'm hoping he turns into a J.T. Miller or Alex Tuch caliber player but it's probably more likely he turns into someone like J.T. Compher or Nicolas Kerdiles - two prospects with similar draft year NTDP/draft+1 year NCAA stats to Norris (although honestly even both of those guys were much more productive freshman scorers). Picking this guy over Vesalainen, Yamamoto or Tolvanen was indefensible at the time and just looks even worse in hindsight.

Also my opinion on Norris has nothing to do with a prospects scrimmage. Someone brought up Tierney and I just wanted to mention that I went to prospects/camp scrimmages years ago where Tierney did look incredible and he obviously hasn't turned into much. So it's not super encouraging that Norris didn't look dominant but it's also not all that meaningful. He's obviously still very young.

 

[jarr92]

Wasn’t Norris one of the more higher scoring forwards among freshman in the big 10?

Edit: Looks like only Quinn Hughes and Casey Mittelstadt only had more points as Freshman then him.

1 was just drafted #7, the other is going to be elite in a few years. People forget that Norris was drafted pretty young.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Wasn’t Norris one of the more higher scoring forwards among freshman in the big 10?

Edit: Looks like only Quinn Hughes and Casey Mittelstadt only had more points as Freshman then him.

1 was just drafted #7, the other is going to be elite in a few years. People forget that Norris was drafted pretty young.

Fire DW and Burke.

 

[Led Zappa]

Like basically everybody has said, nobody was head and shoulders above as in no single player dominated the ice. You're the only one really bashing Norris for this scrimmage. Gambrell, Letunov, and Norris' lines were all very noticeable when they were one the ice.

As someone else pointed out, they were clearly instructed defense first and what do young prospects want to do at camp? Impress the brass. On top of that they never played together before this get together.

No one stood out to me. Several players had "moments".

 

[Juxtaposer]

To be fair, Meier and Hertl are both better than a “top-6” player. Hertl is a proven 1st liner, and Meier looks to be trending towards that as well.

Norris could be less impressive/dominant than either one of them, and still be a potential top-6 forward.

Right, and Norris could be a “potential” second liner but I’m talking about a guaranteed second liner. That was my question. Meier and Hertl had that factor. Norris doesn’t sound like he does. That’s all I’m asking.

 

[hohosaregood]

Right, and Norris could be a “potential” second liner but I’m talking about a guaranteed second liner. That was my question. Meier and Hertl had that factor. Norris doesn’t sound like he does. That’s all I’m asking.

I feel like this distinction was very unclear from the start.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I feel like this distinction was very unclear from the start.

My apologies if it wasn’t, but I thought I was pretty clear.

 

[Maladroit]

Wasn’t Norris one of the more higher scoring forwards among freshman in the big 10?

Edit: Looks like only Quinn Hughes and Casey Mittelstadt only had more points as Freshman then him.

1 was just drafted #7, the other is going to be elite in a few years. People forget that Norris was drafted pretty young.

I don't really see the utility in limiting this to the Big Ten unless you have some evidence that Big Ten scoring rates project significantly differently to the NHL than other NCAA conferences. Here are all the 18-year-old NCAA players (age is more important than school year imo but I think all these guys were freshmen except Poehling anyway) who scored more points per game than Norris did last season:

Casey Mittelstadt
Ryan Poehling
Scott Perunovich
Logan Hutsko
Brandon Kruse
Shane Bowers
Jack Jacome
Ian Mitchell
Cameron Wright
Zach Solow
Maxwell Gildon

I'm no prospects expert but I've literally only heard of three of these guys before. Several of them are undrafted, two of them are defensemen. Norris' production last season is reason for serious concern about his NHL potential.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don't really see the utility in limiting this to the Big Ten unless you have some evidence that Big Ten scoring rates project significantly differently to the NHL than other NCAA conferences. Here are all the 18-year-old NCAA players (age is more important than school year imo but I think all these guys were freshmen except Poehling anyway) who scored more points per game than Norris did last season:

Casey Mittelstadt
Ryan Poehling
Scott Perunovich
Logan Hutsko
Brandon Kruse
Shane Bowers
Jack Jacome
Ian Mitchell
Cameron Wright
Zach Solow
Maxwell Gildon

I'm no prospects expert but I've literally only heard of three of these guys before. Several of them are undrafted, two of them are defensemen. Norris' production last season is reason for serious concern about his NHL potential.

Off-topic but FWIW Ian Mitchell is really good. I watched DU for Gambrell but I came away really impressed with Mitchell. I looked him up but was extremely dismayed to discover that he’s a Hawks’ prospect. Kid’s gonna be a good one.

 

[LadyStanley]

Sharks' first-rounders Ryan Merkley and Josh Norris impress...

Kurrz recap

 

[Used As A Shield]

Bah, those athletic links always get me, you would think by now I'd remember not to click Kurz related stuff. Sadface