2018 Olympics: What will be the fallout of Russian ban or boycott?

Discussion in 'Russia' started by Yakushev72, Dec 1, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RossiyaSport Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    33
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Home Page:
    This is the type of idiocy propaganda brings to unhinged people.

    Russian athletes haves been under massive political attack and scrutiny the past few years. Across the board they are having a ton of success doing as good or better than ever.

    For example, one of the people being attacked Nikitina, won a gold medal at the world cup in Salt Lake a couple weeks ago. This girl has been scrutinized to death and is better than ever.

    Also keep in mind at the Olympics, Russia basically did well on the back of figure skaters and two foreigners and were avg or below in hockey, speed skating, biathlon, cross country.

    So if there was some sort of scheme it really wasn't successful at all. Figure skaters and two foreigners brought home the medal count for them.
     
  2. Albatros Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,969
    Likes Received:
    1,999
    Trophy Points:
    130
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ostsee
    That would kill the league in Europe.
     
  3. Jussi Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    75,002
    Likes Received:
    4,934
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    0800-STUFF-JUST-HAPPENS
    Worst. State.Run.Doping.Program.Ever.
     
  4. VVP Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2017
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    26
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    IOC should be considered ilegal in Russia. All of the corrupt bureaucrats from IOC should be investigated in Russia as well. New international multipolar body will emerge.
     
  5. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Will be interesting to see what Putin decides to do. I think he's a gutless puke, but he is welcome to surprise me and respond proportionally.

    People will argue about Rodchenkov and the McLaren Report until the cows come home, but the simple fact in all of this is that the decision to ban Russia would never happen if they weren't so politically isolated.
     
  6. RossiyaSport Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    33
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Home Page:
    Like was said this is all done in the court of opinion with no real way to fight it. Some of these agencies are basically run like a manor. One guy obsessed with Russia can decide to blanket ban a team such as what happened with the Paralympians.
     
    Last edited by moderator SniperHF: Dec 5, 2017
  7. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I actually forgot about the paralympic ban. That was so callous.
     
    Last edited by moderator SniperHF: Dec 5, 2017
  8. Atas2000 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    11,010
    Likes Received:
    1,427
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Make a serious proposal then. What should happen now in your opinion?
     
  9. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I think Russia needs to put some thought into their response and be clever about it. The IOC's decision was made to set up Russia in such a way that they have a lose-lose scenario and terrible optics: a) admit their athletes into the games, look weak and defeated, and worst of all guilty, and expose them to all kinds of harassment, b) pull out of the games and look like they are punishing their own athletes.

    I believe that Russia can respond appropriately to IOC's decision and still allow their athletes to compete. But the severity of their response has to address their own role as participant and partner in the Olympic process. I'm biased about this because I have never really cared about the Olympics and I know that Russians do. But I think it would be best for them to consider cutting off the Olympics in the long run, phase them out maybe even completely. Because as things stand the Olympics are controlled by organizations that do not have their interests in mind and unless Russia can impose its influence in any way, this will be a losing game.

    So I propose playing real hard ball and threatening to pull out of the process entirely. Draw up a list of demands, among which should be that the IOC reinstate the banned athletes from Sochi unless they can prove - convincingly - that those athletes doped. This means, yes, obtaining actual positive samples. Letting this kind of stuff go creates an awful precedent for Russia, and allows these Western-controlled governing bodies to do whatever they want. If they can ban Russian athletes without concrete proof of guilt, what could possibly stop them in the future? The abuse will only continue if Russia remains subservient to this system.

    By making a concrete list of demands Russia will also shift the onus from themselves onto the IOC, which I think will play well with its public. At present time Russia is running around and doing its best to adhere to arbitrary, Western-imposed standards, spending tons of money revamping its doping program. It should stop doing this and turn the tables completely. This is costing them too much money and labor and just isn't worth it.

    Draw up demands, get out of the Olympics, send any local IOC bureaucrats packing and make it clear that you will not participate until those demands are met. In the meantime allow the Korea-eligible athletes to participate neutrally in this particular instance only (give the IOC a taste of what they'll be missing), but without any state funding or assistance of any kind. Give your athletes the choice to make up their own minds, but before they get there make your announcement. Announce your tit-for-tat in advance. In the meantime you will prepare your athletes (including the potential summer Olympians) about their likely non-participation in future games, but also have enough time to figure how to redirect their competitive aspirations.

    Look at this as another round of sanctions. You will lose monetarily in the short run. But in the long run you will only lose to a greater extent and continue losing if you accept the existing status quo. The Russia ban only happened because the West is calling Russia's bluff, believing that Putin won't have the guts to respond. They believe he is too addicted to Western capital (I hope not).

    But without Russia the Olympics will never be a complete event, and will always deal with questions of "what if." Make them feel the brunt of their decision. This is Russia's only true option.

    The decision to ban Russia is an extension of a pattern of Western aggression against Russia. It is also so incredibly transparent. Even the fact that Rodchenkov is hiding in the US and working with the secret service is absurdly on-the-nose. Respond with strength or die.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    Atas2000 likes this.
  10. Jablkon Registered User

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    By western imposed standarts you obviously mean more advanced and specific policy and controlling system. Great if you just werent able to manage these criterias before and now you tearing your hair. If you set up “this is Russia standart”, then yeh, IOC was definetely eager to believe it.
     
  11. Jussi Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    75,002
    Likes Received:
    4,934
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    0800-STUFF-JUST-HAPPENS
    The fact that they're completely ignoring that this thing escalated because WADA were denied access to Rusada's labs and test results. If you're clean and have nothing to hide, why act like you do have?
     
  12. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    No.
     
  13. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    What is "advanced" about any of this.
     
  14. malkinfan Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,315
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Occupation:
    school
    Location:
    Canada
    So sad to see politics destroy something so great. Its as simple as this: No athlete should ever be barred from Olympic representation unless they themselves violate some rule. That goes for the NHL too. What a disaster this year has become.
     
    KrejciMVP likes this.
  15. Albatros Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,969
    Likes Received:
    1,999
    Trophy Points:
    130
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Ostsee
    No clean athlete has been barred from the Olympics.
     
  16. Jablkon Registered User

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Am I right that RUSADA hasnt have licence yet and breach was found also in olympic laboratories? If they are not advanced they are obviously more strict because your rules were not sufficient. Nice to speak about something from fan perspective but then its good to following the subject.
     
  17. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I don't know what advanced means. Maybe you should articulate your ideas better.

    There is nothing advanced about a process in which a nation does not get the opportunity to speak and address accusations.
     
  18. KrejciMVP Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    20,590
    Likes Received:
    4,567
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec

    It is very sad, the Olympics have been tainted by politicians and people with blood thirsty anti Russian agendas. We are declining as a civilized society
     
  19. Jablkon Registered User

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    I am speaking about this part of your post “By making a concrete list of demands Russia will also shift the onus from themselves onto the IOC, which I think will play well with its public. At present time Russia is running around and doing its best to adhere to arbitrary, Western-imposed standards, spending tons of money revamping its doping program. It should stop doing this and turn the tables completely. This is costing them too much money and labor and just isn't worth it.”

    You use phrases like western imposed standards. This is like cold war rethoric or what exactly you mean?you are part of this world, member of IOC. You can easily participate on these standards. So what is so western about it? This is offtopic but same goes for your discussion about CHL issues of young russian players inthis section. Some of these proposals mentioned in that thread would ruin russian hockey. You called euro leagues vasal leagues and somebody else called them NHL puppet. Instead of asking foreign posters here about it you made such dumb conclusions despite CHL risks for young players and transfers have been in other leagues on table for last ten years. So they might even have much more experince with it than you. Same goes for this topic - western imposed standarts..... you obviously dont like it but world is global. I see that those who work in russian hockey are doing much better job but sometimes I cant believe how ordinary russian fans can sometimes have such a opinion. What do you tend to say by this phrase? That you have russian standarts which are better? That there should be more standards for doping? Or its a general WADA IOC standard using worldwide and you call it western? Or maybe I am just lost in translation in your post. But you use that phrases all the time.
     
  20. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
  21. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    It's impossible to react to this confused jumble without concrete details. I don't remember saying anything bad about the CHL. It seems you're just pulling something on memory and mixing my comments with "somebody else."

    And yes, I believe that the recent attack on Russia is politically motivated. It is obviously being orchestrated by a consortium of Western, largely NATO member countries. This is not hard to see - look at countries involved here: look at where Rodchenkov is, and look at who the author the McLaren report is, and observe where most of the corporate money is coming from. Observe the that IOC is an unelected body comprised of rich businessmen, most of whom come from the West, accountable precisely to no one but capital.

    You may not like what you see as "cold war rhetoric" from me, but I think this is exactly where we are - a cold war-type environment, except one in which Russia is more politically isolated and vulnerable than in the past.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  22. Jablkon Registered User

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    You posted it here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/keeping-players-out-of-canadian-junior-leagues.2203605/page-2

    I wanted to react to this before sharing some facts and experiences but I doubt you guys are interested in facts. That link is full or easily proven nonsenses that I cant believe how big prejudice you have towards others. You dont obviously care about the topic or result. I thought it was a joke first or just lack of knowledges but how easily you turned to such conclusion is just beyond understandable and show your way of thinking.

    In that IOC case you so far behave like advocate paid by Russia, which would be ok, its o job, but you are not paid advocate so you dont have to defend your country, except sure you see the conspiracy behind it as you can create behind anything. That gives your right not to look into papers but create just thesis about IOC members, NATO etc. You dont care about neutral view. You defend your country for no reason with prejudice "this couldnt happen". You are right in terms of isolation. Problem is you isolate yourself because you dont care what others are talking about because most russians dont even try o talk to them .SAme goes here for Shipachov case, link above and this IOC case. So yes, you can think that we are in cold war enviroment, except I really doubt you spend two, three mounths in US, Canada, to even try to to talk to that people about that staff.
     
  23. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    If you doubt that I'm interested in facts then why bother writing this headache-inducing post?

    You don't have to come here and lecture me and other Russian posters. Go be on your high horse elsewhere.
     
  24. Jablkon Registered User

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,654
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Then you dont believe that world including your bad west is giving you big tourneys like World cup or OGs just to risk their money or reputation not even mentioning create false accusation. Definetely easy to put statements like you did, hard not to have a headache if I should take it seriously. Right now I know I dont have to...Good luck with your world order.
     
  25. Fantomas Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    10,847
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 100,000
    I don't know what this means.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"