2018 Offseason Grade The Player: Micheal Haley

[CHGoalie27]

The idea that Haley protects players means that he must be on the ice at all times.

Where was he when Boston's trash goon player took Barkov out at the end of the season ?

Its a waste of a roster spot.

The problem i have with any Haley criticism is it sounds more like a critique for the coach's decision, not Haley or how well he does his job...

 

[I am not exposed]

A for Ass
B for Basura
C for Crap
D for Dumpster
F for ****ing awful.

A for awesome
B for the best
C for character
D for determination
F for fantastic
G for Gud

 

[CHGoalie27]

Can't, don't, or won't?

The entire point of having Haley is for those intangibles.

Its so if the other team has a Haley or Burrows or Kesler or Marchand, Huberdeau and Dadonov can skate with the insurance that those guys won't stop them from playing their game without knowing it won't come without a price.

Again, if job was for any other reason but for what does NOT show up on paper.

Those staged fights you guys complain about is not only a necessary job justification and a good measure of who holds the upper hand by physical display, but that they are both a long standing tradition in a game and league that should hold and carry these "goons" in a much higher regard.

Haley provides a good level of comfort and when he scored his game winning goal if you HUMAN BEINGS didn't feel the extra emotion...

Tanner Glass was a D because he was totally ineffective but he at the very least busted his ass amd didn't let actions go without something/ anything being done. Haley actually managed to put some points up.

Thornton was a D because as useless as he was as a player AND fighter. His name and presence alone provided SOMETHING keeping him from absolute failure...

Do that many of you really not understand?

Go watch Last Gladiators on Netflix or something...

We're people. Theyre people. Imagine fighting in front of millions watching. @ucanthanzalthetruth

A for Ass
B for Basura
C for Crap
D for Dumpster
F for ****ing awful.

What say you to any of what I said above my fren??

 

[Gentle Man]

What say you to any of what I said above my fren??

And my counter to that is what I said above about him.

Can any of you, off the top of your head, list how many meaningful fights Haley had?

Meaningful as in, as an example, Gudbranson smashing Hendricks. Or Bjugstad getting his head bloodied in that same game in Edmonton when Ekblad was run to the boards?

I actually cant remember Haley having any...maybe 1. Out of all his MULTIPLE fighting majors....he had one meaningful fight.

Hanzal showed a perfect example of a useless fight. "Nolie, Nolie.... Let's go!"

Let's start with the fact he calls him by a nickname. Ridiculous and useless. Can't speak for his locker room effect but his fights were useless.

He wasnt on the ice to "defend" anyone nor did he do a good job antagonizing any important players for the other team or punishing them as he can't play against them except when his line ices the puck and gets hemmed in their own zone.

 

[Haj]

The problem i have with any Haley criticism is it sounds more like a critique for the coach's decision, not Haley or how well he does his job...

That's a good point.

I'll agree that he does his job.

But he doesn't make the team better over Maxim Mamin. He also takes a spot away from Dryden Hunt, Jace Hawrlyuk, Lammiko, Repo or anyone else that might have upside in a bottom six role.

 

[StrangeVision]

His willingness to fight earns him a D. I guess. Meh.

 

[MintyFresh88]

The problem i have with any Haley criticism is it sounds more like a critique for the coach's decision, not Haley or how well he does his job...

This. Most of the rationale I'm seeing on these terrible grades for Haley should be redirected at Boughner for his decision to play him so frequently and Tallon (or whoever was in charge at the time) for signing him in the first place.

Haley had 130 career NHL games and 16 career points before this past season, not sure what you expected out of him. I graded him a B because he did what he was asked to do, which is basically play 6-10 mins per game and fight when necessary. If you graded him a C or worse, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that it's unfair to him based on the situation he's being put in.

 

[MintyFresh88]

That's a good point.

I'll agree that he does his job.

But he doesn't make the team better over Maxim Mamin. He also takes a spot away from Dryden Hunt, Jace Hawrlyuk, Lammiko, Repo or anyone else that might have upside in a bottom six role.

...and this is his fault, how? You gave him an F for something completely out of his control.

 

[CHGoalie27]

And my counter to that is what I said above about him.

Can any of you, off the top of your head, list how many meaningful fights Haley had?

Meaningful as in, as an example, Gudbranson smashing Hendricks. Or Bjugstad getting his head bloodied in that same game in Edmonton when Ekblad was run to the boards?

I actually cant remember Haley having any...maybe 1. Out of all his MULTIPLE fighting majors....he had one meaningful fight.

Hanzal showed a perfect example of a useless fight. "Nolie, Nolie.... Let's go!"

Let's start with the fact he calls him by a nickname. Ridiculous and useless. Can't speak for his locker room effect but his fights were useless.

He wasnt on the ice to "defend" anyone nor did he do a good job antagonizing any important players for the other team or punishing them as he can't play against them except when his line ices the puck and gets hemmed in their own zone.

(dignified response coming lol)

 

[Ghoste]

The problem i have with any Haley criticism is it sounds more like a critique for the coach's decision, not Haley or how well he does his job...

Yeah, Haley does his 'job' to perfection. Just his knock as far as playing goes is he plays too much, which is on Bob yes.

As for the no meaningful fights comments go, I think they're meaningful to our players as in it pumps them up or gets them going. They just might not be meaningful to some viewers.

-ghoste

 

[CHGoalie27]

And my counter to that is what I said above about him.

Can any of you, off the top of your head, list how many meaningful fights Haley had?

Meaningful as in, as an example, Gudbranson smashing Hendricks. Or Bjugstad getting his head bloodied in that same game in Edmonton when Ekblad was run to the boards?

I actually cant remember Haley having any...maybe 1. Out of all his MULTIPLE fighting majors....he had one meaningful fight.

Hanzal showed a perfect example of a useless fight. "Nolie, Nolie.... Let's go!"

Let's start with the fact he calls him by a nickname. Ridiculous and useless. Can't speak for his locker room effect but his fights were useless.

He wasnt on the ice to "defend" anyone nor did he do a good job antagonizing any important players for the other team or punishing them as he can't play against them except when his line ices the puck and gets hemmed in their own zone.

Ok, sry for delay...

Did you actually read that though? Reason I ask is cuz you just elaborated on the first statement, I knew the above is how you felt. That's why I tried to explain a little how meaningful those staged fights really are to the people wearing the skates. And the fans that wear the same shirts as the guys with the skates.

You can't counter with the same sentiment. Counter with why you think the staged fights are useless.

And all of them mean something.

I have no problem with the nicknames thing, actually, I rather love the camaraderie within the hockey world...

 

[Gentle Man]

@CHGoalie27

1. Its so if the other team has a Haley or Burrows or Kesler or Marchand, Huberdeau and Dadonov can skate with the insurance that those guys won't stop them from playing their game without knowing it won't come without a price.

Kesler and Marchand are meaningful antagonizers as they play against top competition throwing them off their games. Haley is not an antagonizer he doesnt do that. He is an enforcer but he isnt effective at it as things usually happens when he is off the ice. And when he is on the ice, he has no chance to retaliate against the other teams best players. Ill quote Matt Barnaby on this. He said the best way to get back at the other team if they pester your best player is to do the same to the other team but better. That is how you make that shit stop.

If Kesler hits Barkov in a dirty way, then yes, someone challenges Kesler to a fight to defend your team mate. But then that task falls on whoever is on the ice at the time. How often will Kesler be matched up against Kesler?

If Haley was a defensemen, I'd say he would be more effective at his job....provided he actually did a decent job being a defenseman.

2. Those staged fights you guys complain about is not only a necessary job justification and a good measure of who holds the upper hand by physical display, but that they are both a long standing tradition in a game and league that should hold and carry these "goons" in a much higher regard.

Fighting is down in the NHL overall. These stage fights carry no weight. Does it energize your team? I guess. Does it put goals on the board? No. It doesnt help you win the game.

It's a long standing "tradition" that fights happen even after a clean hit. I hate this tradition. If it was a clean hit, both sides should just move on.

Let's compare how much the team gets pumped up when Haley has a staged fight vs lets say, Trocheck throwing a huge hit at one of their players and starts playing with a chip on his shoulder. No fight needed. This question isnt even close.

3. Haley provides a good level of comfort and when he scored his game winning goal if you HUMAN BEINGS didn't feel the extra emotion...

The extra emotion I got is because a guy that doesnt produce offensively actually produced offensively. The extra emotion is the fact you got something that is essentially a bonus. It was the same with MacKenzie. Has nothing to do with being an enforcer. You got something from someone that usually gives you nothing.

4. Tanner Glass was a D because he was totally ineffective but he at the very least busted his ass amd didn't let actions go without something/ anything being done. Haley actually managed to put some points up.

Mamin busted his ass. Brickley busted his ass and put up points. This isnt a qualifier. At least it shouldnt be. Hell, Tom Wilson, that dirty motherf***er.....but he manages to play top-line minutes. Lucic when he was younger put up points.

5. Thornton was a D because as useless as he was as a player AND fighter. His name and presence alone provided SOMETHING keeping him from absolute failure...
His time here, yes he wasnt useful as a player. However, Ill reference the Merlot line here. Thornton was effective as a player and as an enforcer then. Just because you are an enforcer, doesnt mean you cant be a serviceable hockey player. Paul Laus?

 

[Chaos2k7]

So because our players were not run through the boards, none of his fights can be valid or be useful?

Solid reasoning.

His mere presence stopped alot of that crap. I dont think he is a good 4th liner as a player, but we have much worse on the roster currently. He is much more effective in his role than our captain is in his.

Why did teams take cheap shots on our guys when Thorty or Guddy were on the team? Answer, no one was afraid of them. What does it matter if someone is willing to fight after the dirty hits happen?

Haley stopped that stuff from even happening in the first place. Haley can take a shift and still be a useful deterent. But he should only be playing based upon matchup. For a 4th line goon, he is one of the best in the league. Someone does not need to get hurt before his role on the team is valid.

Still gave him a D though.

 

[Gentle Man]

So because our players were not run through the boards, none of his fights can be valid or be useful?

Solid reasoning.

His mere presence stopped alot of that crap. I dont think he is a good 4th liner as a player, but we have much worse on the roster currently. He is much more effective in his role than our captain is in his.

Why did teams take cheap shots on our guys when Thorty or Guddy were on the team? Answer, no one was afraid of them. What does it matter if someone is willing to fight after the dirty hits happen?

Haley stopped that stuff from even happening in the first place. Haley can take a shift and still be a useful deterent. But he should only be playing based upon matchup. For a 4th line goon, he is one of the best in the league. Someone does not need to get hurt before his role on the team is valid.

Still gave him a D though.

Who said that?

 

[Chaos2k7]

Who said that?

You are implying as such.

All Haleys fights mean nothing apparently, as no one can name one fight thats wasnt staged or of non consequence. And that particular night when Ekblad was cheap shotted in EDM and Thorty and Nick fought, meant more.

There was a different level of respect with Haley on the ice last season. It stopped alot of that crap before it started as players around the league knew, he was not some run down end of his career goon. His presence is valuable, despite your objections.

 

[Gentle Man]

You are implying as such.

All Haleys fights mean nothing apparently, as no one can name one fight thats wasnt staged or of non consequence. And that particular night when Ekblad was cheap shotted in EDM and Thorty and Nick fought, meant more.

There was a different level of respect with Haley on the ice last season. It stopped alot of that crap before it started as players around the league knew, he was not some run down end of his career goon. His presence is valuable, despite your objections.

And it doesn't mean that's the only way to get a meaningful fight though. I never said that.

There was a game, I don't recall which, where a player kept hitting our guys hard and Haley didn't step up. I want to say it was Reaves.

How about instead of fighting... throwing a big hit. That's just as meaningful.

And again, I clearly stated he has and had an affect in the locker room.

Quit throwing strawmen out there.

 

[Brokin]

You are implying as such.

All Haleys fights mean nothing apparently, as no one can name one fight thats wasnt staged or of non consequence. And that particular night when Ekblad was cheap shotted in EDM and Thorty and Nick fought, meant more.

There was a different level of respect with Haley on the ice last season. It stopped alot of that crap before it started as players around the league knew, he was not some run down end of his career goon. His presence is valuable, despite your objections.

Well said.

If there are no consequences to be paid, then teams will look to intimidate. It doesn't stop all the cheap shots but the mitigation can't be denied as Haley will go after most everyone after the fact. Reaves is not a cheap shot artist as his game is more like Haley's in that he doesn't finish his checks. I don't think Haley is afraid to fight him. It has more to do with Reaves doesn't take liberties with Gudas/Wilson type hits.

Since the league has green lighted secondary head shots from guys like Wilson and Gudas, teams will continue to sign players like McLeod and Haley. The rules are mean't to be gray for a reason........they want a physical game no matter the consequences to the players. The league has said it's been this way for a 100 years..........except players are bigger, faster and the illusion that a guy wearing a helmet will be protected is part of the problem. It's tough to find guys like Oleksiak that can at least be productive, finish checks, intimidate and play 17 minutes a night. These players will continue to be in short supply as many of the teams focus on rolling 4 lines.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

If you replace Haley's minutes with Logan Shaw's (the definition of a replacement level player, look at the Habs chart), or clone Jamie McGinn, Florida scores almost 7 extra goals.

Hope the fights are worth it.

I see the "it's not Haley's fault he plays so much" he's put into these situations by the coach"

So the people who are saying that,I'm expecting high grades for Derek MacKenzie too. Does what the coaches ask to the best of his ability, right? Great locker room guy that his teammates love?

 

[Jacob Roberts]

The WAR stat surprises me because I thought he was more than adequate at his job. I also really enjoyed watching him, its nice having an aggressive pest on our side. I have no problem with him being on the team if used appropriately.

 

[Brokin]

If you replace Haley's minutes with Logan Shaw's (the definition of a replacement level player, look at the Habs chart), or clone Jamie McGinn, Florida scores almost 7 extra goals.

Hope the fights are worth it.

I see the "it's not Haley's fault he plays so much" he's put into these situations by the coach"

So the people who are saying that,I'm expecting high grades for Derek MacKenzie too. Does what the coaches ask to the best of his ability, right? Great locker room guy that his teammates love?

Take Haley out of the lineup against the Caps, Flyers, Pens, Bruins and other teams with head hunters and the hit you saw on Barkov at the end of the year will happen early in the season. Guys like that who are up for 1 or 2 games from the AHL have nothing to lose as they are sent back down a game or two later. I think Haley was ejected in that game if my memory serves me. It won't just be Barkov, it will be our entire top 6 that will be targeted. Tro barely missed a couple of blindeside cheap shots that would have put him on IR. Enforcers can't be on the ice for instant retribution on every cheap shot but if you guys get your wish and Haley only plays 20 or so games or none...............ask yourself how you're gonna feel when a couple of top 6 guys are on IR for extended time. Then you can throw those numbers out the window.

 

[Chaos2k7]

And it doesn't mean that's the only way to get a meaningful fight though. I never said that.

There was a game, I don't recall which, where a player kept hitting our guys hard and Haley didn't step up. I want to say it was Reaves.

How about instead of fighting... throwing a big hit. That's just as meaningful.

And again, I clearly stated he has and had an affect in the locker room.

Quit throwing strawmen out there.

Strawman? How about trying to actually back up your opinion or address what I said? You didnt refute or disprove any of what I said. Trying to switch it off to hits, lol. You never stated hits, or I would have addressed that too.

Your exact quote, was that none of his staged fights had any positive effect on the team. That is 100% incorrect.

LOL, this is your kind of go to response(s) whenever you cant prove your points with actual reasoning.

Haley for his role is one of the best in the league. Doesnt make him a great player though. Doesnt make him a analytics darling (which by the way you are happy to throw away whenever a player you dislike doesnt meet your eye test but the numbers are good, or in reverse when a player you like doesnt pass eye tests for other fans but his analyitics are good, ie Nick), but every guy on the team would still tell you he is a necessary evil (despite being a liability on the 4th line). There is a reason he maxed out as a 4th line goon, doesnt take anything away from his effectiveness in that role. Nor does it diminish the need for said role. If his presence stops just one cheap shot related injury from taking place per season he is well worth the price.

Hence my D grade. Doesnt mean he isnt one of the better D players for his role in the league.

 

[Chaos2k7]

The WAR stat surprises me because I thought he was more than adequate at his job. I also really enjoyed watching him, its nice having an aggressive pest on our side. I have no problem with him being on the team if used appropriately.

Again this is the real issue with Haley. He is played too much by the coach.

As that is not in his control at all, its a pretty flimsy complaint.

 

[drktmplr12]

noob question. do enforcers tend to be forwards? if so, why is forward a better position? if not, why not slot a 6d or 7d as an enforcer?

just trying to understand..

 

[I am not exposed]

noob question. do enforcers tend to be forwards? if so, why is forward a better position? if not, why not slot a 6d or 7d as an enforcer?

just trying to understand..

Generally yes.

There are 12 forward, and only 6 defenseman on game day. Losing a 3rd pairing defenseman is generally worse than losing a 4th line forward. Just the maths of it.

 

[I am not exposed]

Haley has more A votes than Ekblad!