Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

[Stammertime91]

To me, the moves look like Gourde and Miller. Everything else is almost impossible, but in your projection, and I think those numbers are pretty realistic, that clears about 10m. But we'd have to move both of them this summer, because Gourde is a pending UFA, and because Miller's NTC will kick in. (Or we keep Gourde and let him walk; but I'd rather include him in a deal than a top prospect, just because we're gonna lose him anyway.)

The one number that I think is high is Karlsson. If he's coming here, he's gonna have to take a discount. But he should get his lost money back after taxes. And, if it's true we're his preferred destination, I think we could expect him to sign an 8 year deal for somewhere closer to 10.

Karlsson and Kucherov are both the best in their position. With these fake grumblings about Kuch and the rumor of EK wanting a similar contract to Doughty, 11M is what i did to fit it worst case though it's likely they get it with whoever they sign with. It would be amazing if Kucherov came in under 11M so we will see.

I'll bet Gourde would have a hell of a lot of value in a sign-and-trade. What about a signed Gourde as part of a deal for a signed Karlsson? Maybe that keeps us from paying Sergachev.

If Dorion did that the Sens fanbase would torch the guy. Even with him, in or order to fit Karlsson in with us being under the cap, we would still need to move Coburn or possibly Callahan as Gourde is so low his cap hit doesn't really do much for us getting under it.

We would need something like Gourde, Foote, Coburn, etc where we dump over 4M just to clear cap space. We can hang onto Gourde this year and just let him walk. If Ottawa takes him as a big piece then oh my God they are going to be pissed.

 

[Stammertime91]

I've seen the long and beautiful post written by @Stammertime91 .
Congrats to him.
But I've a (maybe stupid) question: he's written that, with EK, Gourde, Johnson and Killorn, next year, we've a cap hit, more or less, that will be 92+ mln.
What will it happen if Tampa goes over the limit of the cap? Is there a luxury tax, like in NBA? And what's the amount of this tax?

Why thank you kind one

What is this crap. I wrote a just as long and beautiful post like that on page 58 and you didn't congratulate me? His post is unrealistic as we are 10mil over the cap, mine had us within 2mil with some wiggle room to get under, you should read it and switch out Tavares for Karlsson so it makes sense.

Lmao GG kid

 

[Fabiobest]

 

[Flat Ronnie]

This sucks

 

[Stammertime91]

This sucks

No it doesnt. We would have a great top 4 and a weaker forward lineup within 2 years. This doesnt solve our lack of size up front either. Karlsson was and still is a luxury on this team. We can go with the top four we have and not suffer long term or even acquire a cheaper RHD offensive defenseman and STILL afford our middle 6 and work in Volkov, Joseph or Raddysh down the line.

Losing out on Karlsson is not the end of the world. It's actually the smarter move long term.

 

[Todd1a]

No it doesnt. We would have a great top 4 and a weaker forward lineup within 2 years. This doesnt solve our lack of size up front either. Karlsson was and still is a luxury on this team. We can go with the top four we have and not suffer long term or even acquire a cheaper RHD offensive defenseman and STILL afford our middle 6 and work in Volkov, Joseph or Raddysh down the line.

Losing out on Karlsson is not the end of the world. It's actually the smarter move long term.

when we signed mac truck we were out on karlsson period

 

[HoseEmDown]

No it doesnt. We would have a great top 4 and a weaker forward lineup within 2 years. This doesnt solve our lack of size up front either. Karlsson was and still is a luxury on this team. We can go with the top four we have and not suffer long term or even acquire a cheaper RHD offensive defenseman and STILL afford our middle 6 and work in Volkov, Joseph or Raddysh down the line.

Losing out on Karlsson is not the end of the world. It's actually the smarter move long term.

People want to give Stralman 5.5, I'd rather add 5mil yo that and have Karlsson at 10.5. Replacing the 6.7 of Coburn and Girardi with Cernak and Masin is less than 1.7 so we'd free up 5mil right there to pay Karlsson. Moving out Gourde in the deal and replacing with Volkov adds size to the lineup. Not saying we should or shouldn't do it but we can make it work short and long term while staying competitive.

 

[Sky04]

when we signed mac truck we were out on karlsson period

Not really..

 

[Stammertime91]

People want to give Stralman 5.5, I'd rather add 5mil yo that and have Karlsson at 10.5. Replacing the 6.7 of Coburn and Girardi with Cernak and Masin is less than 1.7 so we'd free up 5mil right there to pay Karlsson. Moving out Gourde in the deal and replacing with Volkov adds size to the lineup. Not saying we should or shouldn't do it but we can make it work short and long term while staying competitive.

Sure but you're banking on the combo of Joseph, Cirelli and Volkov being able to produce at reasonable rates. It's definitely possible but it's gonna take trust from Cooper to play these guys like the last wave 5 years ago. Also in your scenario, if we did move Sergachev, we would be playing with 2 rookies and KK/Dotchin, or 3 rookies right? We would be top half heavy and weak on the bottom half. Not sold on that idea either.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sure but you're babling on the combo of Joseph, Cirelli and Volkov being able to produce at reasonable rates. It's definitely possible bit it's gonna take trust from Cooper to play these guys like the last wave 5 years ago. Also in your scenario, if we did move Sergachev, we would be playing with 2 rookies and KK/Dotchin, or 3 rookies right? We would be top half heavy and weak on the bottom half. Not sold on that idea either.

I think Cooper is trusting some youth more. Gourde isn't young but was a rookie last year and he let him free and he produced. Cirelli came up and was given a lot of trust. So I think the rookies will be given chances and those guys are very defensive responsible unlike Drouin was which got him in trouble. This would be my D with Karlsson.

Hedman - Cernak
Masin - Karlsson
McDonagh - Foote

Cernak can be a better Dotchin which has worked with Hedman before. Masin can be a Methot light which worked well with Karlsson before. McDonagh and Foote as a bottom pair is just unfair.

 

[Sky04]

Sure but you're babling on the combo of Joseph, Cirelli and Volkov being able to produce at reasonable rates. It's definitely possible bit it's gonna take trust from Cooper to play these guys like the last wave 5 years ago. Also in your scenario, if we did move Sergachev, we would be playing with 2 rookies and KK/Dotchin, or 3 rookies right? We would be top half heavy and weak on the bottom half. Not sold on that idea either.

Hedman-Karlsson
McDonagh-
Koekkoek-

Which isn't exactly bad... insert whatever 2 rookies you want, Sustr if even that's a gamebreaking defense and much more capable of winning games then having Girardi 's and Coburn's out there for "reliability."

 

[Stammertime91]

I think Cooper is trusting some youth more. Gourde isn't young but was a rookie last year and he let him free and he produced. Cirelli came up and was given a lot of trust. So I think the rookies will be given chances and those guys are very defensive responsible unlike Drouin was which got him in trouble. This would be my D with Karlsson.

Hedman - Cernak
Masin - Karlsson
McDonagh - Foote

Cernak can be a better Dotchin which has worked with Hedman before. Masin can be a Methot light which worked well with Karlsson before. McDonagh and Foote as a bottom pair is just unfair.

That's ideal but babysitting duties for each of them seems troublesome. I mean if there were 3 defenseman to pick to do it, Hedman, McD and Karlsson would be great mentors and it has worked with Hedman dragging along anchors but it would take some consistency from all 3. I would feel more comfortable with 2 at maximum.

Hedman-Karlsson
McDonagh-
Koekkoek-

Which isn't exactly bad... insert whatever 2 rookies you want, Sustr if even that's a gamebreaking defense and much more capable of winning games then having Girardi 's and Coburn's out there for "reliability."

Yeah I agree. I like this better I think (sorry Hose we can still be bffs). KK isn't anything to ride home about and maybe new blood would actually be better but i feel comfortable having KK there at least and it gives us the best top 4 in the league.

This is gonna get interesting nonetheless cause if we bring back any defenseman we will have Hedman, Stralman, Serg, McD, Coburn, G, Dotchin, KK, and three on the fringe in the minors. 11 defenseman without moving one out. I would hope Dotchin is moved so if we do start 2 or 3 ELCs next year on the back end, maybe Foote or Cernak has some time under their belts from getting a look this year.

 

[HoseEmDown]

That's ideal but babysitting duties for each of them seems troublesome. I mean if there were 3 defenseman to pick to do it, Hedman, McD and Karlsson would be great mentors and it has worked with Hedman dragging along anchors but it would take some consistency from all 3. I would feel more comfortable with 2 at maximum.

Yeah I agree. I like this better I think (sorry Hose we can still be bffs). KK isn't anything to ride home about and maybe new blood would actually be better but i feel comfortable having KK there at least and it gives us the best top 4 in the league.

This is gonna get interesting nonetheless cause if we bring back any defenseman we will have Hedman, Stralman, Serg, McD, Coburn, G, Dotchin, KK, and three on the fringe in the minors. 11 defenseman without moving one out. I would hope Dotchin is moved so if we do start 2 or 3 ELCs next year on the back end, maybe Foote or Cernak has some time under their belts from getting a look this year.

If you want Hedman - Karlsson that's fine, think it's a bit overkill but ok, then you can throw Masin - Cernak as the bottom pair. They may be rookies but were a strong pair last season and will be the top pair again next season for Syracuse so they have familiarity. They're only gonna play 10 minutes a night anyway.

 

[Master P]

The team will remain as is and we will add some size to our lineup at the trade deadline to get ready for the playoffs. Thats my prediction.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think a lot of people are under selling how impactful having a generational RHD talent on this team for half the game would be.

I'm ok mortgaging the entire farm for it. Foote. Katchouk. Raddysh. Half a dozen 1sts

 

[HoseEmDown]

I think a lot of people are under selling how impactful having a generational RHD talent on this team for half the game would be.

I'm ok mortgaging the entire farm for it. Foote. Katchouk. Raddysh. Half a dozen 1sts

So we trade a future generational RD, a Selke winger and a 40 goal scorer plus 6 1sts for that?

 

[Stammertime91]

I think a lot of people are under selling how impactful having a generational RHD talent on this team for half the game would be.

I'm ok mortgaging the entire farm for it. Foote. Katchouk. Raddysh. Half a dozen 1sts

There's more to it than that though. Cap space and rookies to replace the 5M guys. Gutting the farm for him wont leave us with many options for replacements. I don't think people, myself included, are dogging the impact Karlsson would have on this team for a long time but this team is going to take a serious hit up front if we move guys to make space and also lose guys that are close to being somewhat decent replacements for them.

 

[DFC]

Sure but you're banking on the combo of Joseph, Cirelli and Volkov being able to produce at reasonable rates. It's definitely possible but it's gonna take trust from Cooper to play these guys like the last wave 5 years ago. Also in your scenario, if we did move Sergachev, we would be playing with 2 rookies and KK/Dotchin, or 3 rookies right? We would be top half heavy and weak on the bottom half. Not sold on that idea either.

None of the lost players are core though. Which does make them replaceable. More often than not, a team lives and dies by its core, not its complementary players. Adding Karlsson gives us undeniably the best core in the league, so long as we're not losing Point, Kucherov, or Stamkos up front.

More of our prospects work out than don't. The Yzerplan has always been about moving cheap talent into complementary roles. We shouldn't get too attached to that first wave.

We definitely don't NEED Karlsson, but he undeniably makes us a better team, for at least a few years.

 

[Stammertime91]

None of the lost players are core though. Which does make them replaceable. More often than not, a team lives and dies by its core, not its complementary players. Adding Karlsson gives us undeniably the best core in the league, so long as we're not losing Point, Kucherov, or Stamkos up front.

More of our prospects work out than don't. The Yzerplan has always been about moving cheap talent into complementary roles. We shouldn't get too attached to that first wave.

We definitely don't NEED Karlsson, but he undeniably makes us a better team, for at least a few years.

I'm all for moving all 3 of Killorn, Palat and Johnson just cause they piss me off and even Stamkos some days, but we still need to ice 4 lines capable of scoring a goal. As it stands we couldn't do that in 8 periods of the ECF with who we have right now. Adding Karlsson isn't the fix up front. It actually just turns over 2 of them into ELCs. Who knows, maybe two guys come up and we forget who Johnson and Palat are after one year, but that's a lot trust into adding Karlsson who doesn't solve our dwarf and complacent forward issue.

I'm down with adding Karlsson IF AND ONLY IF we move Callahan and Johnson to give Joseph and perhaps Volkov a year with Gourde still in the mix to reevaluate what we have going into 2019. We would basically head into the 2019-2020 season blind if we add Karlsson. We have a full roster by offering Erne a spot as well that getting Volkov in to see if he can take it would be jumping over Conacher, Erne and hopping into middle 6 territory. If Yzerman is set on giving two rookies a full season this year and we make room for them, to completely lean on them and give them experience, I would be open to it. As it stands, it looks too raw and tight on the cap (remember Vasy will need a raise shortly after as well) as soon as next year unless 86, Karlsson and Point sign for less and we are completely rolling with a minimum of 4 ELCs, two on the blue line and two in the middle 6.

 

[DFC]

I'm all for moving all 3 of Killorn, Palat and Johnson just cause they piss me off and even Stamkos some days, but we still need to ice 4 lines capable of scoring a goal. As it stands we couldn't do that in 8 periods of the ECF with who we have right now. Adding Karlsson isn't the fix up front. It actually just turns over 2 of them into ELCs. Who knows, maybe two guys come up and we forget who Johnson and Palat are after one year, but that's a lot trust into adding Karlsson who doesn't solve our dwarf and complacent forward issue.

I'm down with adding Karlsson IF AND ONLY IF we move Callahan and Johnson to give Joseph and perhaps Volkov a year with Gourde still in the mix to reevaluate what we have going into 2019. We would basically head into the 2019-2020 season blind if we add Karlsson. We have a full roster by offering Erne a spot as well that getting Volkov in to see if he can take it would be jumping over Conacher, Erne and hopping into middle 6 territory. If Yzerman is set on giving two rookies a full season this year and we make room for them, to completely lean on them and give them experience, I would be open to it. As it stands, it looks too raw and tight on the cap (remember Vasy will need a raise shortly after as well) as soon as next year unless 86, Karlsson and Point sign for less and we are completely rolling with a minimum of 4 ELCs, two on the blue line and two in the middle 6.

Yeah, but, I don't know how you can argue that we couldn't score in 8 periods vs. Washington, and then argue against acquiring one of the biggest offensive forces in the league, who can play 25 minutes per night in his sleep, as if that wouldn't help. That would help more than just about any forward addition we can think of.

 

[Stammertime91]

Yeah, but, I don't know how you can argue that we couldn't score in 8 periods vs. Washington, and then argue against acquiring one of the biggest offensive forces in the league, who can play 25 minutes per night in his sleep, as if that wouldn't help. That would help more than just about any forward addition we can think of.

It helps this year because we don't really have to move anybody if we moved Dotchin and Coburn or just Callahan. We have one more run with this group. After that it changes.

Adding Karlsson would be huge and the production he would have here would be great but we also have Hedman getting 70 points unable to force his teammates to get to the net. I don't think Karlsson would have forced our forwards to the net simply because he's Erik Karlsson. He adds more traffic there with shooting and creating chances but we had no traffic in front of Holtby for nearly the entire series.

It might not even take a personnel addition, it could simply be a different style from Halpern that could make these guys more effective. The problem was being one dimensional and not having a response to being stifled. If Halpern could change that and provide another element to our game then maybe we don't get stumped as easily.

 

[These Are The Days]

Yeah, but, I don't know how you can argue that we couldn't score in 8 periods vs. Washington, and then argue against acquiring one of the biggest offensive forces in the league, who can play 25 minutes per night in his sleep, as if that wouldn't help. That would help more than just about any forward addition we can think of.

Especially when so much of the problem consisted of not generating shots from the blue line.

 

[Stammertime91]

Especially when so much of the problem consisted of not generating shots from the blue line.

Hard to generate chances when youre playing defense nearly the entire game and when you get a shot nobody is within 10 feet for a rebound.

 

[These Are The Days]

Hard to generate chances when youre playing defense nearly the entire game and when you get a shot nobody is within 10 feet for a rebound.

lol brb gonna take a nice relaxing bath with my toaster

 

[Cmac66]

Don’t get me wrong after thinking about it while it would be brilliant if we could get Karlsson is it really worth the risk of what they are after. We aren’t in a position where we can take on Ryan contract on as well which doesn’t put us in a good position and would most likely cost us a considerable amount more than other team. We need to make changes to the team from the series against the caps we seemed to struggle for the majority of the series, whether that be by adding more size or giving the prospects a chance.