2018 off-season thread

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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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so what if hextall overpay on free agents, gets Jt and karlson wins the stanley cup, are you going to quit rooting for this team? because you want all prospect team?

And what if Karlsson breaks down, we're stuck with his contract, can't resign a couple good RFAs, lack depth and don't even make the CFs in the 2020s?
You're assuming we're one player away, and getting Karlsson or JT "guarantees" a Cup.
But if Pittsburgh couldn't win with Malkin and Crosby without building solid depth, we're not going to win with Karlsson or JT until we build solid, experienced depth.
So why not wait a year or two before we make the big move, when the team is good enough to be on the cusp of Cup contentions, instead of rushing things?
 
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The Burdened

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May 1, 2017
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Raises:

Provorov - 7,000,000
Patrick - 5,000,000 -to- 7,000,000 depending on his progression
Konecny - 5,000,000 -to- 6,000,000
Sanheim - He's not even a legit NHL'er yet, so I'm not worried about his contract after next atm
Lindblom - He's not a legit NHL'er yet and may never be, so I'm not worried about his contract after next atm
Myers - He's not even a legit NHL'er yet and may never be, so I'm not worried about his contract after next atm

All of those are fair value and not factoring in Hextall's uncanny ability to get players to take a little bit less.

If Sanheim, Lindblom, and/or Myers become legit contributors, the money will still be there to sign them. There's no telling what vets are even on the team 5-years from now. For all we know Voracek could be long gone and traded; same with Simmonds

When's the last time a UFA the quality of Tavares hit the open market? Kovalchuk in 2010? It's silly to me that we should not at least try for JT all because Travis Sanheim or Oscar Lindblom or Wade Allison may or may not be a player in 2021
 
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duffy9748

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Nov 26, 2007
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so what if hextall overpay on free agents, gets Jt and karlson wins the stanley cup, are you going to quit rooting for this team? because you want all prospect team?

One person actually responded to me, “That team could win 1-2 cups, but they could run into trouble down the road”. Something along those lines.
 

NYCFlyer

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Nov 23, 2002
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In fairness, look at the time you posted. Many people, like myself, were asleep.

I have not changed my belief that we are playoff tweeners and that we are still a few years away from being contenders. But making a move for JT or EK....or both even certainly gives us an uptick.

Going after either of these 2 guys is not a "now" move....it's a now AND the future move. Those are the moves we absolutely should be looking into. It you wait and say "naw, we are still 2 years away" guys like that might not be available in 2 years.

What going after JT DOES do, is gives you that free asset and also makes trading Frost if need be, a lot easier to swallow because the C is set for at least 4 years.

I just hope that if/when we don't get either guy, people don't freak out(but they will) and go off on Hextall. It takes 2 sides to do a deal and we have no idea what those other teams/players want.

Just remember, we have the ability to after these 2 guys because of Hextall gathering all the assets and clearing all the cap space. Should be a fun few weeks watching what happens!
I think JT is a total game changer for any franchise but there are probably a dozen teams that can afford him and some destinations like Vegas, Toronto or staying at home that may be more attractive than going to a division rival. I am 100% sure JT would get a very compelling offer from us if he would consider it.

Karlsson is interesting because of the injury. It has to dampen the enthusiasm for him because of chance that he isn't the same. Maybe he can be had for a reasonable price considering his talent but personally I wouldn't take the risk.

I think our best move would be to target cap strapped teams like LA, Nashville, Edmonton or Chicago and try to pry something from them like Doughty, RNH or a decent goalie that will help us during a cup run.
 

tucson83

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Sep 30, 2017
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And what if Karlsson breaks down, we're stuck with his contract, can't resign a couple good RFAs, lack depth and don't even make the CFs in the 2020s?
You're assuming we're one player away, and getting Karlsson or JT "guarantees" a Cup.
But if Pittsburgh couldn't win with Malkin and Crosby without building solid depth, we're not going to win with Karlsson or JT until we build solid, experienced depth.
So why not wait a year or two before we make the big move, when the team is good enough to be on the cusp of Cup contentions, instead of rushing things?
but this, but that, do you want to win or not? yes or no? answer the question, dont give me your 10 paragrah off topic crap, it's a simple yes or no?
 
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The Madrigal

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Apr 26, 2016
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In a simulation
The problem isn't the next couple years, it's in 2020-21 onward when you have RFA contracts for Provorov, TK, Patrick, Lindblom, Sanheim, Myers.
That could be $30+M between them.

There will be top players/free agents available every summer, question is when do you pull the trigger and for whom.
If Karlsson was the free agent instead of JT, he might be a target for Ron.
But since he may be available next summer, he might just wait and see.

Waiting another year or two has real advantages for the Flyers:
1) Hart is closer to starting, they'll have a better idea about Sandstrom and Ustimenko as well
2) Prospects will have better track records, which both tells Ron where his holes are and increases their trade value
3) The team will have a better record, worse draft position, which makes it easier to trade 1st rd picks

It's not like JT or Karlsson will make us a Cup contender, they haven't made their current teams, they won't do that here - this isn't the NBA. You need a hockey team, heck, Pittsburgh could only get to the conference finals once in six years despite having Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang in their prime years.

So until the kids have a couple more years under their belts, overpaying for free agents will just close the window on the back end without shoving it open on the front end.
I already addressed that and showed how the Flyers can sign Provorov and Konecny to huge contracts and still have a ton of cap space. Supposedly you werent paying attention. I will break it down for you again.

Roughly 20 million in cap space this summer.

Next summer the following comes off the books:
Lehtera at 4.7 million
Simmonds at 3.9 million
Elliot at 2.75 million
Neuvirth at 2.5 million
Raffl at 2.35 million
Weal at 1.75 million
Total - 17.85
You can also subtract 1.7 million for Provorov and 1.1 million for Konecny which takes the total up to about 20.5 million.

So, we are now at about 41 million and could have more if the cap goes up next summer.

41-7 for Provorov = 34 million
34-5 for Konecny = 29 million
29-5 for two goalies = 24 million

Nobody else is due a big raise in 2018 or 2019 and even if someone were there is tons of cap space.

That gives Hextall roughly 24 million in cap space to work with over the next two years even AFTER signing Provorov and TK to huge deals.

Worried about Patrick two years down the line? MacDonald, Weise, and Gudas come off the books that summer for about 10 million in additional cap savings and the cap will continue to go up by then.

I know this is going to crush your hopes of dreams of the all prospect team but its not even practical at this point for Hextall to not start adding to the roster via free agency and trade this summer and next.
 

NicolasAubeKubel

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Mar 3, 2018
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Yeah what if a perennial Norris candidate forgets how to play hockey???? Did you ever think about that????? That+extending Wade Allison’s son=no way in hell we should pursue Tavares/Karlsson
 

NicolasAubeKubel

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Mar 3, 2018
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I guess part of the plan was to go into seasons with 15+ million in cap space and be the next Arizona Coyotes.
That’s a joke right? 15 million wouldn’t even feed Isaac Ratcliffe. We NEED to cut bait on that Couturier contract NOW so it doesn’t handcuff is for the future.

Hexy needs to flip him for another late 1st before it’s too late
 
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Psuhockey

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Nov 17, 2010
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What does everyone think Gudas is worth? 2nd round pick? 3rd rd pick?

I think baseline is a 3rd. Would love a high 2nd but I think that may be wishful thinking.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
20,032
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What does everyone think Gudas is worth? 2nd round pick? 3rd rd pick?

I think baseline is a 3rd. Would love a high 2nd but I think that may be wishful thinking.

I think we can grab a 2nd for him based on some other trades I can recall. Heck, we got a 3rd for Rinaldo.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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Apr 30, 2015
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What does everyone think Gudas is worth? 2nd round pick? 3rd rd pick?

I think baseline is a 3rd. Would love a high 2nd but I think that may be wishful thinking.

I'm not sure what he'd fetch, but I have a feeling we'd get better value out of holding onto him and counting on a bounce-back season. I think it was Magua who posted his numbers pre- and post-suspension and with different partners, and (along with what I heard was a good performance at the world champs) it seems like there's a decent chance he could do much better this season sans Manbearpig.
 
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Richards18Forever

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Nov 15, 2006
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The concerns I have with these two:

Karlsson- cost to acquire, cost to resign, and I worry about his body holding up.

Taveres- little concerned about bumping Patrick down to 3c for his growth. No other concerns with JT then that. Hope the contract doesnt get too high but other then that. I'm good with going for JT.
 

Danko

You have no marbles
Jul 28, 2004
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Gudas is one incident short of getting suspended for a long time, last year he seemed to not know how to play after his most recent suspension. Two seasons ago his value would be higher, this season...no idea. 3rd?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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As far as capspace goes, we DO have options along the way. We know about all the crap players making way too much money and their cap space coming free. But their are other...and other options.

Giroux has 4 years left and will be 34 when his contact ends. We "could" move on from him freeing up 8 million.
We "could" trade Voracek if we need to in 4-5 years if cap space is an issue.
Couts....I love him....but he could also be a very expensive re-sign.

Just stating that their ARE options out there in a few years if we need to free up some space. And really, say signing JT for free then trading Voracek for futures, for example, just shifts most of the cap space to someone else, but also keeps the pipeline coming.

Not all the kids can fit anyways. Really, right now, most see a Ratcliffe-Frost-Allison 3rd line a potential line with the top 6 already in place. So that leaves 3/4 spots for everyone else. doing a quantity for quality deal is going to happen at some point anyways. If Hextall is not looking at a way to add either, then he is not doing his job. And I think he is since we do know he was looking at Hoffman at the deadline. He will certainly see if he can make a deal that makes sense now, and in the long run.
 

Danko

You have no marbles
Jul 28, 2004
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Hey in other news, aside from the Revolution starting Hexy has a presser going on right now talking about the draft on Sam C's twitter/periscope
 
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