Post-Game Talk: 2018 NHL Draft

[Melvin]

What is an average height? 6'0? 6'1?

Assuming Quinn is his reported height of 5'9.8, he almost certainly isn't going to grow to either of those heights. It's fine to wish it were so, but it is a fools hope to be thinking it is possible.

The average defender is 6'2".

I agree with you, yes.

 

[Get North]

Honestly, who knows what they are prioritizing? They go from a high skill pick that has limitations physically, to a "throw back player" pick in Woo, to... whatever it was that they did beyond the 2nd round. If there is anything that I'm gleaning from this draft, it's that they let need cloud their judgement and they still think they're smarter than they actually are.

I was giving them major praise after the Hughes pick. I thought they had turned a corner with this pick and the 2017 draft. Then, day 2 happens, Botchford provides insight and Benning confirms the top7. So in 2 days, I've gone from liking what they've done to distrusting their draft process once again.

- I don't think drafting Hughes over Dobson/Bouchard was a mistake. Everything else, agreed.

Just take solace in the fact that we didn't see armageddon here after a Hayton pick. Small victories.

I don't think those two things are similar at all.

It has been well established that defenders drafted at 5'10" and below project worse than would be expected for a similar defender who is taller. It has not been remotely established that underweight centres suffer the same penalty.

Too, its easier for a player to put in weight than it is to grow a few inches.

The two situations are not remotely comparable. Make no mistake it, this is a risky pick by the canucks. There is a reason no nhl team has drafted a defender this short this high since we drafted jj Daigneault.

It might well be a risk that pays off but that doesn't mean it's not a risk.

You think it's a risk because of the statistics that are screwed from many years ago when the NHL was all about size, grit, aggression. When goons played on the same line as their star player. Look at guys like Provorov, Morrissey, Honka, Rielly, Dumba. I know only Honka is 5'10, but these guys are smallish defencemen that are succeeding in the NHL. Smaller defencemen might have been failing in the 80s, 90s, early 00s, but it's not the case anymore.

My point is that size was the biggest concern for Hughes and Pettersson. Nobody questioned their skill, but their flaws were strength/height. Otherwise, they were the BPA. We took the best, most skilled players. That isn't up for debate. I haven't seen a centre that weighs less than 170 pounds, that's a risk drafting someone under 170 pounds.

 

[Melvin]

You think it's a risk because of the statistics that are screwed from many years ago when the NHL was all about size, grit, aggression. When goons played on the same line as their star player. Look at guys like Provorov, Morrissey, Honka, Rielly, Dumba. I know only Honka is 5'10, but these guys are smallish defencemen that are succeeding in the NHL. Smaller defencemen might have been failing in the 80s, 90s, early 00s, but it's not the case anymore.

My point is that size was the biggest concern for Hughes and Pettersson. Nobody questioned their skill, but their flaws were strength/height. Otherwise, they were the BPA. We took the best, most skilled players. That isn't up for debate. I haven't seen a centre that weighs less than 170 pounds, that's a risk drafting someone under 170 pounds.

I was responding directly to your assertion that drafting a defender listed at 5'9 at the draft is similar to drafting a centre who is listed at 165 lbs at the draft. I do not feel that they are similar levels of risk, for the reasons I stated.

Guys built like Pettersson are much more rare than defenders built like Hughes and weight is easier to gain than height.

 

[Get North]

I was responding directly to your assertion that drafting a defender listed at 5'9 at the draft is similar to drafting a centre who is listed at 165 lbs at the draft. I do not feel that they are similar levels of risk, for the reasons I stated.

Guys built like Pettersson are much more rare than defenders built like Hughes and weight is easier to gain than height.

They are many people who struggle to add weight no matter what they do. It seems like a even bigger risk now considering we haven't heard of Pettersson gain any weight since last season.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Its only been 4 days ago that we had the draft...?...we have no ****ing idea how most of these 18 year olds are going to turn out...You must be listening to the blowhards on here (not you) that consider themselves closet GM's...and have already come to the foregone conclusion that we messed up the draft.

I'm not a Benning fan but I liked the draft. I loved the Hughes pick because he has the highest offensive upside of all non-Dahlin defencemen in the draft. I think he will be a superstar. I personally would of picked Thomas with the second but I have no problem with the Woo pick. I liked Wise but I trust Brackett's judgement so hopefully Madden worked out. Utunen looks good for a 5th Rd pick. For the most part, I think Benning has done a good job drafting but that doesn't come close to cancelling all the other mistakes of his tenure.

 

[racerjoe]

You guys talking about the height are too smart for me, and confused me a bit. Let's call Hughes 5'10". Am I then right to say he has an 80% chance of succeeding to the same degree as someone who is 6' to 6'1"? Is that what was said?

I am just checking as I got a bit confused by the back and forth but am fascinated.

 

[scallionjj11]

 

[krutovsdonut]

You guys talking about the height are too smart for me, and confused me a bit. Let's call Hughes 5'10". Am I then right to say he has an 80% chance of succeeding to the same degree as someone who is 6' to 6'1"? Is that what was said?

I am just checking as I got a bit confused by the back and forth but am fascinated.

well you could graph the height of all drafted hockey players in a given year and then compare that to the height of all nhl players who played 40 games that year and i am going to guess there will be a sharp divergance in the height distribution, and i am sure both would be above average north american height distribution.

 

[krutovsdonut]

also madden looks skinnier than the russian dude.

 

[Phenomenon13]

The average defender is 6'2".

I agree with you, yes.

Does your analysis take into account the role (toi) the avg height defender contributes compared to undersized defenders. I feel when undersized defenders make the team. They play a impact role more often than the average height defender. I may be biased in my perception of role though. That's just my initial impressions

 

[Zombotron]

-Minnesota and Vancouver discussed something around MN's #63 and #86 - possibly #37 for #63 and #86?
-Management mulled over taking a goalie with #68 (if their preferred goalie was available) - JB nixed it ("maybe if we had multiple thirds... we've got two good goalies")
-L.A. offered #113 and #144 for Vancouver's #68
-Vancouver countered with #82 and #144 for #68; this proposal didn't go anywhere

 

[Zombotron]

I like that they defer to Judd Brackett on basically everything - like how he was the kingmaker on the Washington trade

 

[Superlative Soup]

Hughes over Zadina is interesting.

From everything I've read and seen I think they had Hughes top 3 on their board.

 

[Josepho]

I love these videos. Seems like we were really focused in on all of our first three picks. Wish we could've heard them talk about Utunen a bit more. Also thinking we were looking at Noel judging by Brackett's comments right as he got picked.

Guessing that #1 Goalie is Justus Annunen?

 

[Josepho]

also struggling to think of a more terrifying image than this

 

[Zombotron]

 

[biturbo19]

Really interesting hearing Brackett pretty much nixing any CHL goaltenders late in the draft. I'd argue that there have been at least a small handful of others that have "worked out" well enough, but he does have a point in that none of them are real home runs as bonafide star #1 goaltenders. Though wasn't Murray grabbed with a 3rd...same as we grabbed DiPietro out of the CHL?

It's not a bad philosophy though. College-bound goaltenders have a lot of time and opportunity to develop, which is certainly handy for a later round project goaltender. It seems to actually kinda tie in with the rest of what they did at this draft, really swinging for a lot of "upside" with later picks. Kind of a shift from some of what this organization has done in the past.

 

[Hansen]

“Chris Tanev for Nylander?”

 

[Hansen]

Really interesting hearing Brackett pretty much nixing any CHL goaltenders late in the draft. I'd argue that there have been at least a small handful of others that have "worked out" well enough, but he does have a point in that none of them are real home runs as bonafide star #1 goaltenders. Though wasn't Murray grabbed with a 3rd...same as we grabbed DiPietro out of the CHL?

It's not a bad philosophy though. College-bound goaltenders have a lot of time and opportunity to develop, which is certainly handy for a later round project goaltender. It seems to actually kinda tie in with the rest of what they did at this draft, really swinging for a lot of "upside" with later picks. Kind of a shift from some of what this organization has done in the past.

3rd round isn’t necessarily late though, for all we know, DiPietro could have been a 30-40 on their draft board

 

[biturbo19]

3rd round isn’t necessarily late though, for all we know, DiPietro could have been a 30-40 on their draft board

Certainly could be the case that they liked DiPietro an awful lot. And/or weren't high on Matt Murray at all in his draft year. It's still a bit of a weird comment, but interesting. Certainly reveals something pretty candid about what we can expect from them in the later rounds in any case.

 

[Laterade]

Jett "we got our guy" Woo

 

[krutovsdonut]

just watched that with sound.

i think i misunderstood the beginning of the video earlier to mean the canucks were saying they wanted hughes over zadina.

i now think they are actually trying to guess who detroit will pick and brackett thinks it will be hughes. and weisbrod wants to go up to the podium to congratulate the hughes family if detroit picks hughes.

the excitement of getting hughes seems pretty genuine.

whatever dubas offered was not as good as the st. louis 2 pick offer and benning didn't even have to wait to see what was on the board to pass.

the benning backpatting of brackett over the woo pick is awkward. brackett does not like it. my read is that woo is a pick brackett was high on and had to sell the other guys on and this was benning pinning woo on bracket as opposed to the st. louis trade benning had lined up. that was kind of a dick manager accountability move but it might have been unconscious.

on the decision making, it is mostly by consensus between benning, bracket and weisbrod, but benning pulls rank in the 3rd round goalie discussion and says no. otoh, i think the washington 6th round trade is bracket's call because the picks at that point are brackett's. and he knows best what value is on the board.

 

[GetFocht]

Brackett looked stressed entire time, seems like this is the day he has his game face on. He didn't even care for that Tavares play that made Benning/Weisbrod act like high school girls.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Jett "we got our guy" Woo

Jim "its a home run" Benning...

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

just watched that with sound.

i think i misunderstood the beginning of the video earlier to mean the canucks were saying they wanted hughes over zadina.

i now think they are actually trying to guess who detroit will pick and brackett thinks it will be hughes. and weisbrod wants to go up to the podium to congratulate the hughes family if detroit picks hughes.

the excitement of getting hughes seems pretty genuine.

whatever dubas offered was not as good as the st. louis 2 pick offer and benning didn't even have to wait to see what was on the board to pass.

the benning backpatting of brackett over the woo pick is awkward. brackett does not like it. my read is that woo is a pick brackett was high on and had to sell the other guys on and this was benning pinning woo on bracket as opposed to the st. louis trade benning had lined up. that was kind of a dick manager accountability move but it might have been unconscious.

on the decision making, it is mostly by consensus between benning, bracket and weisbrod, but benning pulls rank in the 3rd round goalie discussion and says no. otoh, i think the washington 6th round trade is bracket's call because the picks at that point are brackett's. and he knows best what value is on the board.

omg what?