GDT: 2018 NHL Draft Weekend

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glenwo2

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I mean, they knocked their 1st round pick out of the park, but didn't pick again until #110. Hard to do better considering the dearth of picks in rounds 2-3.

But that's not their fault, though, that they didn't have picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Why are they being graded based on that instead of the QUALITY of their picks? :dunno:

I mean...looking at what he said, and what grade he gave was pretty contradictory.

The Grade should've at least have been a straight B(or even, based on his gushing about Hoelscher and Bernard, a B+).
 

StevenToddIves

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B-MINUS, though? :huh:

I believe they downgraded the Devils based on no 2nd or 3rd round picks. As much of a home run as the Devils hit with Smith and as solidly as they picked in the later rounds, it's hard to compare the NJ draft favorably against the Islanders or Red Wings, who were just loaded with early picks and knocked them all out of the park.
 

StevenToddIves

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I mean, they knocked their 1st round pick out of the park, but didn't pick again until #110. Hard to do better considering the dearth of picks in rounds 2-3.

Agreed. Take Calgary -- despite no picks until the fourth round, they did a terrific job of drafting upside players like Roman, Koumontzis, Pettersson and Zavgorodniy. But even so, can you rank them above a team which did a mediocre job with their first round pick? I absolutely hated the Anaheim pick of Lundestrom with Veleno and Bokk on the board, but Lundestrom still has to be considered a stronger prospect than any of the kids Calgary took. Conversely, if I had to choose a top-two pick combo of the Devils Smith/Bernard or the Ducks Lundestrom/Groulx, I would go with the Devils.
 

Brodeur

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I have to remind myself not to read too much into grades immediately after the draft (or to do it myself). I remember stumbling on this winners/losers article from the 2004 Draft several years after the fact: Wheatley: Winners and losers

Among the winners were Chicago for landing a cornerstone guy in Cam Barker. Along with Ovechkin, Washington got a "gem" in Jeff Schultz but they made no reference to Mike Green. Rangers were winners for getting Al Montoya and Lauri Korpikoski.

Among the losers were Boston and Detroit who didn't have first round picks. But they landed David Krejci and Johan Franzen later in that draft.
 

Tretyak 20

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I have to remind myself not to read too much into grades immediately after the draft (or to do it myself). I remember stumbling on this winners/losers article from the 2004 Draft several years after the fact: Wheatley: Winners and losers

Among the winners were Chicago for landing a cornerstone guy in Cam Barker. Along with Ovechkin, Washington got a "gem" in Jeff Schultz but they made no reference to Mike Green. Rangers were winners for getting Al Montoya and Lauri Korpikoski.

Among the losers were Boston and Detroit who didn't have first round picks. But they landed David Krejci and Johan Franzen later in that draft.

Priceless example of why we should be patient with prospects. I also liked how he talks down Dubnyk, who actually turned out to be probably the best goalie in that draft.
 

Bleedred

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I have to remind myself not to read too much into grades immediately after the draft (or to do it myself). I remember stumbling on this winners/losers article from the 2004 Draft several years after the fact: Wheatley: Winners and losers

Among the winners were Chicago for landing a cornerstone guy in Cam Barker. Along with Ovechkin, Washington got a "gem" in Jeff Schultz but they made no reference to Mike Green. Rangers were winners for getting Al Montoya and Lauri Korpikoski.

Among the losers were Boston and Detroit who didn't have first round picks. But they landed David Krejci and Johan Franzen later in that draft.
I was just thinking last night or maybe it was the night before, how many terrible, terrible first round picks the Rangers struck out on from the early 90's all the way up until the mid 2000's. And even a couple terrible ones after the mid 2000's. And some real misses on a few top 10 picks. So it's funny you mention Montoya and Korpikoski. Even going back to the late 80's they really bombed in the first round.

Just going from 87 onward.
1987: Jayson More - Meh.
1989: Steven Rice - Pretty crappy pick. Used in the Messier trade and only played 326 NHL games.
1990: Michael Stewart - BUST. Never played an NHL game, despite an 18 year playing career.
1991: Alexei Kovalev - Good.
1992: Peter Ferraro - BUST. Only 92 NHL games, despite a 15 year playing career.
1993: Niklas Sundstrom - Pretty decent career.
1994: Dan Cloutier - Terrible, terrible goaltender that managed to play parts of 10 seasons in the NHL.
1996: Jeff Brown - BUST. 0 NHL games played.
1997: Stefan Cherneski - Too injury prone and suffered career ending injury at 22.
1998: Manny Malhotra - Lengthy career, but one spent majority as a 4th liner. Disappointing for a 7th overall pick.
1999: Pavel Brendl - One of the most legendary busts of the late 90's. 4th overall pick. Used in the Lindros trade. Lengthy playing career, but only 92 games played in the NHL.
1999: Jamie Lundmark. BUST. 9th overall pick, insanely overrated prospect at the time. Parts of 7 seasons in the NHL as a journeyman. Two top nine picks that year, two very big busts.
2001: Dan Blackburn - Career ended prematurely due to injury, was forced to play in the NHL at 18 years old. I'd probably give this one a mulligan.
2003: Hugh Jessiman - BUST. Biggest one that year. LOL. Enough said.
2004: Al Montoya - One of the better American goalie prospects at the time, Rangers goalie of the future, but was just a career backup and never played a regular season game for the Rangers.
2004: Lauri Korpikoski - Underwhelming career, but a better one than a lot of these guys.
2005: Marc Staal - Isn't good anymore, was always overrated, but a decent sized career at least.
2006: Bobby Sanguinetti - Another worthless BUST that played only 45 career NHL games.
2007: Alexei Cherepanov - Tragically died at 19 years old, they get a mulligan for this one.
2008: Michael Del Zotto - Pretty okay career.
2009: Chris Kreider - He's their best first round pick since Kovalev from 18 years earlier.
2010: Dylan McIlrath - BUST.
2011: JT Miller - Looking good so far.
2012: Brady Skjei - Looking good so far.

No first round picks between 2013 and 2016. Rest of the first round picks still to be determined.

Really wanted to post this. That's some pretty lousy drafting in the first round over a 2.5 decade span.
 
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Bleedred

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And I figured I'd go through ours from that time period. And because I'm awake and bored. We did REALLY good in the first round from 87-92. We had Neil Brady in 1986, who was an epic bust. Arguably the biggest in the history of the organization.

1987: Brendan Shanahan - HOF
1988: Corey Foster - BUST. One of just two busts in the first round for us between 87 and 94. 45 NHL games played and a 16 year playing career.
1989: Bill Guerin - Hall of very good
1989: Jason Miller - BUST. 6 NHL games played and a 20 year playing career. At least we got Guerin with our earlier first round pick that year.
1990: Martin Brodeur - HOF
1991: Scott Niedermayer - HOF
1991: Brian Rolston - Very good player for a very long time.
1992: Jason Smith - Pretty decent career. 1009 NHL games played.
1993: Denis Pederson - Not the best pick/career, but not the worst either. Played 435 NHL games and was used to get Alexander Mogilny.

So 1987-1994 produced two huge busts in the first round for us, but also produced 3 HOF players, one hall of very good player in Guerin, one kind of hall of very good player in Rolston, an okay defenseman with a lengthy career and one okay guy with a short NHL career, who helped land us a really good player. I'd say that more than makes up for the two gigantic busts in Foster and Miller.

1994: Vadim Sharifijanov - BUST. That draft sucked and is known for being historically weak. Let's just pretend Patrik Elias was our first round pick.
1995: Petr Sykora - Had a good NHL career, even if he became sort of a journeyman.

Now it gets bad

1996: Lance Ward - BUST. Played 209 NHL games, which I didn't even think it was that many. I guess he was better than the Rangers pick that year, who played exactly zero NHL games.
1997: Jean-Francois Damphousse - BUST. Career minor league goalie. Played 6 NHL games.
1998: Mike Van Ryn - Good defenseman, incredibly injury prone, which shortened his career. Never played a game for us after exposing some loophole and causing a bunch of drama.
1998: Scott Gomez - Pretty damn good player.
1999: Ari Ahonen - BUST. Highly touted prospect. Kind of got buried here, but his AHL career was nothing impressive.
2000: David Hale - Played 327 NHL games, but can I still call him a bust?
2001: Adrian Foster - Very big bust. 0 NHL games played.
2003: Zach Parise - VERY good career.
2004: Travis Zajac - Pretty good career.
2005: Niklas Bergfors - BUST. Luckily he didn't bust until after we cashed in on him.
2006: Matt Corrente - BUST.
2008: Mattias Tedenby - BUST.
2009: Jacob Josefson - 315 NHL games played, shootout specialist, but at the end of the day, this is probably still a bust. Especially considering all the talent picked just a few spaces behind him that we have since acquired.
2011: Adam Larsson - Pretty decent defenseman, but pretty underwhelming for a 4th overall pick. Got us Taylor Hall, so he's the GOAT.
2012: Stefan Matteau - BUST. No more words.
2014: John Quenneville - Just a little too early, but doesn't look like he'll have a lengthy tenure with us in the NHL.

Still too early to really rate the first rounders from 2015-2017. Zacha has been a bit underwhelming, but fairly solid. McLeod hasn't played an NHL game yet. Nico had an amazing season, but still only one year.
 

Nubmer6

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And I figured I'd go through ours from that time period. And because I'm awake and bored. We did REALLY good in the first round from 87-92. We had Neil Brady in 1986, who was an epic bust. Arguably the biggest in the history of the organization.

1987: Brendan Shanahan - HOF
1988: Corey Foster - BUST. One of just two busts in the first round for us between 87 and 94. 45 NHL games played and a 16 year playing career.
1989: Bill Guerin - Hall of very good
1989: Jason Miller - BUST. 6 NHL games played and a 20 year playing career. At least we got Guerin with our earlier first round pick that year.
1990: Martin Brodeur - HOF
1991: Scott Niedermayer - HOF
1991: Brian Rolston - Very good player for a very long time.
1992: Jason Smith - Pretty decent career. 1009 NHL games played.
1993: Denis Pederson - Not the best pick/career, but not the worst either. Played 435 NHL games and was used to get Alexander Mogilny.

So 1987-1994 produced two huge busts in the first round for us, but also produced 3 HOF players, one hall of very good player in Guerin, one kind of hall of very good player in Rolston, an okay defenseman with a lengthy career and one okay guy with a short NHL career, who helped land us a really good player. I'd say that more than makes up for the two gigantic busts in Foster and Miller.

1994: Vadim Sharifijanov - BUST. That draft sucked and is known for being historically weak. Let's just pretend Patrik Elias was our first round pick.
1995: Petr Sykora - Had a good NHL career, even if he became sort of a journeyman.

Now it gets bad

1996: Lance Ward - BUST. Played 209 NHL games, which I didn't even think it was that many. I guess he was better than the Rangers pick that year, who played exactly zero NHL games.
1997: Jean-Francois Damphousse - BUST. Career minor league goalie. Played 6 NHL games.
1998: Mike Van Ryn - Good defenseman, incredibly injury prone, which shortened his career. Never played a game for us after exposing some loophole and causing a bunch of drama.
1998: Scott Gomez - Pretty damn good player.
1999: Ari Ahonen - BUST. Highly touted prospect. Kind of got buried here, but his AHL career was nothing impressive.
2000: David Hale - Played 327 NHL games, but can I still call him a bust?
2001: Adrian Foster - Very big bust. 0 NHL games played.
2003: Zach Parise - VERY good career.
2004: Travis Zajac - Pretty good career.
2005: Niklas Bergfors - BUST. Luckily he didn't bust until after we cashed in on him.
2006: Matt Corrente - BUST.
2008: Mattias Tedenby - BUST.
2009: Jacob Josefson - 315 NHL games played, shootout specialist, but at the end of the day, this is probably still a bust. Especially considering all the talent picked just a few spaces behind him that we have since acquired.
2011: Adam Larsson - Pretty decent defenseman, but pretty underwhelming for a 4th overall pick. Got us Taylor Hall, so he's the GOAT.
2012: Stefan Matteau - BUST. No more words.
2014: John Quenneville - Just a little too early, but doesn't look like he'll have a lengthy tenure with us in the NHL.

Still too early to really rate the first rounders from 2015-2017. Zacha has been a bit underwhelming, but fairly solid. McLeod hasn't played an NHL game yet. Nico had an amazing season, but still only one year.
I hate to say this, but you should have really included the pick # for each player. A ton of our picks was late in the 1st round, while a lot of the Rags' was in the top 10 or 15
 

Bleedred

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I hate to say this, but you should have really included the pick # for each player. A ton of our picks was late in the 1st round, while a lot of the Rags' was in the top 10 or 15
I thought that might make the posts longer. The Rangers definirely had more top 10 and top 15 picks, many of them were busts. The two in 1999 being legendary.

One other interesting realization. is that the Rangers had zero HOF players picked in the first round after 1987, while we had 3. They did pick Brian Leetch in the first round in 1986, who is HOF. I mean, all of ours came from 87-91, but that’s still incredible that they drafted zero HOF players in the first round in the last 30+ years, while we had 3 of them.
 
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