Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VII

[pld459666]

Ilk be honest, I'm not worried about the kid.

Not at this age.

If he wants to be an NHL'er, it will click for him and he'll be fine.

If it takes another 2 years, so what.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I appreciate you not dogging the kid and having more behind the scenes knowledge on the issue, but you’re looking at this through rose colored lenses. I was 21 and I got lucky enough to have a Cup of coffee overseas in Turkey of all places, and had a very gritty situation happen while I was there. Life is tough but you adapt.

I can understand a bit him wanting to be home because he’s young. To me, if it was going to be so debilitating, then he, his family, and the team would have all been aware to wait another year if it was just maturity. It really seems more and more like this is a typical young generation-whatever who had a tough go, had bad influences from his family, has been handed too much his whole life because he he’s naturally talented and now is facing adversity and handling it poorly.

He needs to step up and take control of this situation as a young 18 year old man. At some point you handle life before it handles you... the conditioning stint seems like some of the most routine lip service I’ve seen in a while. Suggesting he lost his legs and was so far behind the 8 ball after being on the ice for 2 months is something I’m not buying.

He needs to step up and do what’s best for his career right now and I think everyone can agree that playing in the VHL and sinking like a stone in your organizations eyes is not that.

I’m sure there is more to it, again I appreciate you’ve gotten close to the family and are a bit more understanding. It’s hard to deny though that VK has made this situation increasingly more difficult for whatever reasons/influences.

I pointed out to AK that I perceived the same bias but hes honestly being pretty fair lately.

Its valid to point out that country shifting may have messed with the kid.

Plus, they dont practice a lot in the ahl and he wasnt playing much so there are a good 2 weeks where he may have let his conditioning lapse for real b4 even going back to russia.

I think the coach was being diplomatic but I cant dismiss that circumstances likely did screw vk up

 

[Edge]

This is where I think we're at. This is what I think we are working to remedy. And what I believe we will remedy:

 

[leetch99]

Someone mentioned that Kravtsov needs to look at Chytil for a good lesson on how things can work out if you follow on the instructions and buy into the program they give you, but I'd rather have Buchnevich to chat with Kravtsov. The things that Quinn was asking initially didn't "make sense" to Buch at first but he stuck with it (clenching his teeth, I'm sure, Captain Smilie) and, from his later interviews, eventually understood why these things were important and good for the team (and therefore his personal) success.

I agree....let him chat with Panarin , Buch . Maybe we need a senior Russian advisor/ coach on our staff...which we really should have to begin with since we have so many Russian futures in the organization that we are banking on . Where is Sergei Nemchinov ....perfect guy for that and a ring to boot !!

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Ilk be honest, I'm not worried about the kid.

Not at this age.

If he wants to be an NHL'er, it will click for him and he'll be fine.

If it takes another 2 years, so what.

pld, I think we've probably agreed with each other more often than not over the last 20+ years (crazy that it's been that long). But I cannot agree with the bold. The fact that he's in the VHL is extremely troubling.

I agree with the "it's up to him" idea. Just not the bold.

 

[NYR Viper]

pld, I think we've probably agreed with each other more often than not over the last 20+ years (crazy that it's been that long). But I cannot agree with the bold. The fact that he's in the VHL is extremely troubling.

I agree with the "it's up to him" idea. Just not the bold.

1) you're old now, get over it

2) I'm wondering if we are seeing a new coach trying to put his stamp on the team and really leaning on a player who he sees as not invested in his team moving forward. They know he will be leaving after this year and that they aren't winning anything this year.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think people might be confusing a lack of conditioning with a kid who was just struggling to adapt. Skating with men in the best league in the world, on the ice with teammates and opponents who don't speak your native language; it's all pretty overwhelming. When you're slow in processing the game you react slower. That can easily make it look like you're out of shape.

Yes but the same thing happened in the KHL sooooooo

 

[Shesterkybomb]

what absolute horse **** lol

KHL training and conditioning is notoriously brutal

Why did you call it H.S and then agree with me?

 

[kovazub94]

I agree....let him chat with Panarin , Buch . Maybe we need a senior Russian advisor/ coach on our staff...which we really should have to begin with since we have so many Russian futures in the organization that we are banking on . Where is Sergei Nemchinov ....perfect guy for that and a ring to boot !!

Yeah, his name is Nickolai Bobrov who's a director of Euro scouting for NY Rangers, and even though his official team responsibilities are not that of a "Russian advisor", he's scouted and then been overseeing our Russian players during draft events / team camps etc. I believe drafting Kravtsov was his call if you wanted to go more in depth beyond Gorton, so getting Kravtsov on track should be even more priority for him specifically.

 

[Levitate]

Honestly will be super interesting to see what happens in regards to him returning or not. NOw that I think about it it could be better for his KHL coach and team to say "it's conditioning, it's not a big deal!" if they're worried about the Rangers calling him back, regardless of what their real issue is

 

[pld459666]

pld, I think we've probably agreed with each other more often than not over the last 20+ years (crazy that it's been that long). But I cannot agree with the bold. The fact that he's in the VHL is extremely troubling.

I agree with the "it's up to him" idea. Just not the bold.

It's still way to early in the process.

Even Derek Jeter got sent home as a kid.

Not saying they will have the same impact, but it's not surprising to me that he didnt take well to the demotion.

If in two years he hasn't gotten his crap together, then I will be concerned

Right now, just let him work and figure it ou .

 

[ohbaby]

This is where I think we're at. This is what I think we are working to remedy. And what I believe we will remedy:

What,.. his fear of spiders? LOL

 

[Zine]

And as a hockey dad I can totally picture the situation, and it makes me laugh at an apparent total absurdity of it to everyone witnessing, except probably Kravtsov himself, poor kid.

Looks like that situation probably occurred. Jesus Christ.


Американский юмор? Он больше такой как бы грязный, могут и из близких кого-то задеть. Нельзя рассказывать, какие там шутки. Я сразу сказал, что надо мной так шутить не надо, потому что я в Челябинске жил», — рассказал Кравцов сразу после возвращения.
Мечтал об НХЛ, а доигрался до «Вышки». Почему сдувается Кравцов

 

[ohbaby]

I don't understand the conditioning aspect. He was here working out early. He played TC. He did camp with us. He played the exhibition games. He started in Hartford. I know KHL camps are KILLER apparently, but it's not like he was slumming around. He was probably more active and engaged than most of our players, so conditioning shouldn't really be an issue unless he wasn't actually working hard. I can understand needing to adapt to a system but if after all the training he did before the season he's still out of shape, at 19 no less, that's concerning.

I agree. It's bull. Plus if you think about it,... even before all this,... you don't become a skilled first round pick without working your butt off. Practicing every day for hours at a time. The problem is,.. he is still a kid playing against men, so physically he's not ready. He just needs to develop that man strength. Why do you think Kakko has been struggling? He was use to manhandling, dominating opponents. But found he cannot do that in the NHL with the ease he has in the past.

Every NHLer hits the gym regularly. If these kids are not doing the same, what chance do they have of winning any battles on the ice? And even if they do, there are not pressing nearly as much as NHL regulars.

 

[ohbaby]

Dude at BSB....if hes right...he probably needs to get away from the bad influences in Russia.

His whole hockey-playing life, all he’s heard is how great he is and how he’s destined for greatness. Not making the NHL club out of camp was the first adversity the kid ever had to deal with. He was not able to handle this due to being extremely immature. Now couple that with parents that were barking that he should come back b/c he’s better than the AHL, this was recipe for disaster. His coming over was mutual. The Rangers FO wanted him to come over and Krav had been saying since he was drafted he wanted to come over. I know many here felt he should have made the team out of camp, myself being one of them, but from a VERY close source to Krav, he wasn’t physically ready for North American game. Panarin himself told him that he needs to have some "push-back" in his game in order to be successful in the NHL. Sending him to the AHL for a period of time to get better acclimated to this style was not viewed as setback or demotion but more as a short step in his development. The only one who viewed this negatively was Krav himself and he sulked in Hartford and mentally checked out. This VERY close source has said the kid has simply been getting horrible advice. The FO and his agent tried to convince him to stay and did for a very short period of time but eventually, Krav listened to said "bad advice" and went back which was his right. I’m not sure what has happened over in mother Russia and I’m trying to find out more but if I had to guess, this could be a result of this kid being extremely immature and having smoke blown up his ass his whole hockey-playing life and is just not equipped to handle any adversity.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This guy said at the time of his return to Russia that his parents are his biggest problem - his agent tried to convince him that it was just a minor, temporary development stop in Hartford but his parents kept telling him he was too good to play in the minor leagues and he should return to the KHL. Well, if that's the case, then getting demoted back home might finally get him to listen to better advice.

This seems most likely the events that occurred. Never experience a setback like this and took it badly.

And the demotion in Russia could signal the KHL isn't interested in a rental, as others here on this board have pointed out.

Good news though, Gorton has been speaking to VK's agent after the demotion in Russia....

https://nypost.com/2019/12/09/vitali-kravtsov-could-return-to-rangers-after-russian-demotion/

Always good to keep the lines of communication open.

 

[kovazub94]

Looks like that situation probably occurred. Jesus Christ.


Американский юмор? Он больше такой как бы грязный, могут и из близких кого-то задеть. Нельзя рассказывать, какие там шутки. Я сразу сказал, что надо мной так шутить не надо, потому что я в Челябинске жил», — рассказал Кравцов сразу после возвращения.
Мечтал об НХЛ, а доигрался до «Вышки». Почему сдувается Кравцов

Yup, meshing his childhood world with the adult one in America (and professional hockey) couldn't have been easy.

 

[SouthernRanger]

I call bs on conditioning.... Unless he was eating nothing but Doritos and doughnuts for those 10 days I don't see how his conditioning could go in the tank.

Yeah "conditioning" in this context seems like the default fallback coach comment when he doesn't want to talk about the matter. The fact that this has happened with two clubs on two different continents (I'm referring to being sent down) leans more towards a greater issue than just physical readiness.

 

[kovazub94]

The good thing that could come out of it is for Kratsov to realize where to go for a good advice and where not, even if the later is based on good intentions.

As they say good intentions could often lead to....

 

[Levitate]

I agree. It's bull. Plus if you think about it,... even before all this,... you don't become a skilled first round pick without working your butt off. Practicing every day for hours at a time. The problem is,.. he is still a kid playing against men, so physically he's not ready. He just needs to develop that man strength. Why do you think Kakko has been struggling? He was use to manhandling, dominating opponents. But found he cannot do that in the NHL with the ease he has in the past.

I think the things Kakko has struggled with at times have been more along the lines of the time and space available at the NHL level. Guys close real quick and often two at a time in the NHL and there's not as much ice to maneuver around. Even if you're strong on the puck it can be tough to have someone in your back pocket the second you get the puck. I think he's been used to have a bit more time to prepare himself for a check etc.

But that's just a learning process.

e: I mean Kakko was playing against men in his draft year, but the style of play was different

 

[ohbaby]

I think the things Kakko has struggled with at times have been more along the lines of the time and space available at the NHL level. Guys close real quick and often two at a time in the NHL and there's not as much ice to maneuver around. Even if you're strong on the puck it can be tough to have someone in your back pocket the second you get the puck. I think he's been used to have a bit more time to prepare himself for a check etc.

But that's just a learning process.

e: I mean Kakko was playing against men in his draft year, but the style of play was different

I disagree somewhat. Cause most of his highlights in the past,... are of him excelling in tight spots. Like Panarin does on a daily basis due to his exceptional puck control/management.

The difference is Kakko is not bouncing off players like before. Now they are knocking him off the puck. I think it's all a matter of strength.

Did you see Panarin gain control of the puck against two defenders on the boards in his own zone early in the VGS game? Skate towards the middle with 3 defenders closing in, bounce off one of them and able to skate free into the neutral zone keeping control of the puck? I have never seen anything like that. Other than a Jagr highlight reel. It was amazing.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I will comment on this. I moved to South Africa when I was in my early 20s. It was rough. Especially when things weren't going my way. Not everyone has the mentality to just "get over it" and adept. It all depends on how you were brought up, what you have experienced etc. I remember going back to the Netherlands 3 years later and suffering a severe depression because I felt like I failed. I had come back to my hometown with this experience that should have been great and was expected to bring me the baggage to get ahead in life, but instead of turned into a failed experiment and I struggled to deal with the consequences of that. Facing my friends and family and having to admit I didn't succeed.

When things go your way, it's a lot easier to "keep up" because the rush of adrenaline makes you just go with the flow. When things aren't going your way, it's a lot harder to stay focused, keep up with the daily routine and stick to what you know is best. Everyone, especially kids, need positive reinforcement. If that's lacking, it's a dangerous slope

I will never judge a professional athlete on mental ability to deal with adversity. I am now 35 and a completely different person but at age 21, I really did not handle my situation the way I should have. I wish there was someone to support me. I am not saying Kravtsov is dealing with the same, but his situation has some similarities and IF this is the case, I can certainly understand. As a Rangers fan, I want him to "get over it" and start performing. But as a person, I realize it's not always that easy.

If the coach says it's a conditioning issue, I have no reason to think otherwise. I really do not want another "Zibanejad has a concussion, book it" debate. The conditioning can be caused by other factors though. Mental issues are at the very least a possible contributor to this. I don't know how he will deal with this but he is a teenager (turning 20 in 2 weeks) and expecting a teenager to just adept is short-sighted in my opinion.

What it comes down to for me is this:

- He came over oozing confidence
- Had a good camp
- Had some good moments in pre season
- Was sent down and didn't react the way we wanted
- Decided to go back to Russia which was within his rights with the EAC
- Didn't live up to expectations back in the KHL
- Now sent down to the VHL to work on his conditioning

I expected more from him, and have issues with certain things he has done off the ice. But I don't think it's as grimm as some make it out to be. It has been a rough month for him and now he has to show he can recover and come back stronger.

I pointed out to AK that I perceived the same bias but hes honestly being pretty fair lately.

Its valid to point out that country shifting may have messed with the kid.

Plus, they dont practice a lot in the ahl and he wasnt playing much so there are a good 2 weeks where he may have let his conditioning lapse for real b4 even going back to russia.

I think the coach was being diplomatic but I cant dismiss that circumstances likely did screw vk up

I can appreciate a culture shock for sure. I’m not trying for down on Vitali but things have gotten off the rails here. I can understand things being mentally a drag, I dealt with that stuff later in my 20s rather then being younger. Different strokes I guess. It doesn’t change though that this whole thing is getting worse and worse.

To me, I don’t buy the conditioning excuse but I’ll go with it I guess. I just tend to think where there’s smoke there's fire and smoke is billowing out of this camp about his attitude being off. I also don’t see how the Rangers could miss how bad he was struggling and not get him help like they did Kakko, so it makes me wonder what the situation in his time with the team wasn’t like if he was really struggling. That seems like it would be a huge oversight. I guess for me from the outside looking in, it’s just gets a bad vibe.

At this point I’d really like to see the Rangers step up reach out to Vitali and explain why he should come to Hartford. I hope Vitali would make the right decision and open up to how they could help his transition and come back over and work towards finishing a good first year overseas.

I also certainly do not feel like this is the end of the road for VK though. I’m concerned but it’s not the end of his story.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah, thing is, as awful as this year has gone, he still has ample time to turn it into a good year. I mean whether that's a trade and staying in the KHL, or coming back here to play in the AHL or even NHL eventually, there are lots of games left to play and he could still make this all a positive.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Idk if it was posted, but he had an assist today:

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Looks like a man out there. That guy he brushed off on the forecheck took a hard spill at the end.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Finally something positive in this thread. Hope he uses it to keep the momentum going.