HockeyRobinson
Registered User
A player his size who can skate the way he does has enormous potential.
It’ll take time, but he could break big.
Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft Part I
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A player his size who can skate the way he does has enormous potential.
It’ll take time, but he could break big.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of his. DevilsDominion has also been pumping his tires for awhile, and with good reason. If I had to pick two "under the radar" forwards, which is to say Fs who will not go in the top 10 but have a chance to be all-star, first-line scorers, I would have to go with Bokk and Kravtsov, and they are really close in terms of enormous offensive upside.
Although the Devils have a clear need on the blueline, it would be difficult to argue with a selection of Bokk or Kravtsov. Both can play RW, where the Devils are organizationally thinner than at LW or C. More importantly, Bokk and Kravtsov both have the huge, mid-first-round upside of a Tarasenko pick.
In summary, I'd like to say that, although I am mostly promoting defensemen with the Devils #17 pick, I would also be quite happy with a selection of Bokk or Kravtsov. The only type of pick which would disappoint me would be going for a 'safe' selection of a forward at positions we are already strong at -- for instance Isac Lundestrom, who should be a good NHL C/LW, but without a ton of scoring upside. I would also not be thrilled with players like Ryan Merkley or Rasmus Kupari, who to me are the biggest boom/bust candidates in the draft. Why take that sort of risk when there will certainly be an assortment of very talented players available at 17?
Agreed -- you don't draft for 'grit' at 17.
That being said, Miller is a phenomenal skater with tremendous size/smarts/compete level and terrific offensive upside who ALSO has grit. If the Devils (or any team) chose to draft for just grit in the 7th round, I'd be fine with that.
I think we need to judge the Shero/Castron era on their own merits, not the record of the preceding management. In their two drafts, I think the new management has done exceptionally at the draft table. I'm certain most of you would agree. Although I have strongly disagreed with some of their selections (Boqvist, Senn) I respect that they have a proven philosophy in place, and they are sticking to it.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
I do not think that is a risk worth taking. The only scenario in which I could see taking such a risk would be if Ty Smith fell to Dallas' #13 pick. I think Smith is just a tremendous, star-caliber talent who could be in the NHL in maybe just a season or two and immediately change the face of the blueline while fitting into Shero's philosophies (high-end speed/hockey IQ/character).
Though we don't have the draft picks necessary to sweeten the pot to move up four spots in the first round, I'd gladly dangle a mid-level prospect with upside (like Zetterlund or Speers) to get that done.
Wilde is a prospect with tremendous potential, but watching him in recent international tournaments has given me no reason to think he will be a better pro than teammate K'Andre Miller, who would fill a greater organizational need (Wilde is RD, Miller LD). Another option would be to trade down a few slots in the draft to the early 20s, recoup our lost 2nd-rounder, and take an LD like Alexeyev or Sandin.
That being said, if Wilde were to slip to the #17 pick, I would be quite happy with a Devils selection of him. He's big, a tremendous skater, has a howitzer of a shot and hits like a freight train. That's a tantalizing combination, even with his penchant for giveaways. With good coaching and development, Wilde certainly has top-pairing, star defenseman potential.
Ha, great line. Just keep in mind that I keep offering alternatives who would also be great fits in a Jersey jersey. You don't want to marry yourself to one prospect if you are picking outside of the top 3. Certain guys could fall, as always happens in the draft. Everyone knows how much I love K'Andre Miller -- but would I still take him if a player fell like Ty Smith or Joe Veleno or Joel Farabee? And, as I've stated before, it would be difficult to be mad at the Devils taking a superstar caliber winger like Bokk or Kravtsov. Another possibility would be another team falling in love with a player and offering to overpay for the #17 pick -- would anyone really be upset if we flipped the 17 pick to Detroit for picks 29,33 & 36? As much as I admire Miller, I would be even happier with a haul of, say, Rasmus Sandin, Jett Woo and Jake Wise.
A lot of things can happen before the draft. Player rankings move up and down. Two years ago, I spent more time on these pages Clayton Keller than I do now pumping K'Andre Miller. At the time, Keller's rankings were mostly in the 17-23 range. I had many Devils fans say that Keller was a 'reach' and we should trade up for Alex Nylander. But Keller got some late helium, bypassed Nylander in the rankings, and two years later we can safely say that Arizona got a far better player in Keller at #7 than Buffalo did in Nylander at #8.
The two D-men I see having the most 'helium' leading up to the draft will be K'Andre Miller and Nils Lundqvist. Both of these players came out of the vicinity of nowhere and are starting to show more consistent flashes of high-end greatness. So we have to accept the possibility that both of them will be gone by the #17 pick. But just keep in mind that, if that happens, another very good player will fall. It comes down to math, and your odds can be improved by a good strategy and even better scouting.
Castron and Co. have done well picking but statistically speaking a 17th OA pick is about 22% chance of being top 6 F or top 4 D. And yes I know we are lean this year in picks but, the 2 picks at 30th fall to 11-16% of the same top 6/4. Castron has proved to be better than the avg. but a higher pick in a good D draft?
I have always believed that those 'draft odds' need to be ignored and not quoted by the educated hockey supporter. If you think like that at the draft table, you have already lost. Good GMs/scouts ALWAYS draft better than poor ones. Do you think when Shero drafted Jesper Bratt in the 6th round he was thinking 'what the heck, whomever we pick here only has a 1% chance of making the NHL' and flipped a coin? No, he trusted his scouts who firmly believed that Jesper Bratt not only fit the team philosophy of high-end speed/hockey IQ/character but also had a very good likelihood of making the NHL as a top 6 forward. And now the Devils have a very good young forward who finished 5th in team scoring for a playoff team.
A GM MUST believe in every pick he makes, otherwise he is an ineffective GM who might as well trade away all of his picks after the second round because their odds are so poor. From the 2016 draft alone, next year's Devils will feature two players selected with 'low-odds' picks in Bratt and Joey Anderson.
I have always believed that those 'draft odds' need to be ignored and not quoted by the educated hockey supporter. If you think like that at the draft table, you have already lost. Good GMs/scouts ALWAYS draft better than poor ones. Do you think when Shero drafted Jesper Bratt in the 6th round he was thinking 'what the heck, whomever we pick here only has a 1% chance of making the NHL' and flipped a coin? No, he trusted his scouts who firmly believed that Jesper Bratt not only fit the team philosophy of high-end speed/hockey IQ/character but also had a very good likelihood of making the NHL as a top 6 forward. And now the Devils have a very good young forward who finished 5th in team scoring for a playoff team.
A GM MUST believe in every pick he makes, otherwise he is an ineffective GM who might as well trade away all of his picks after the second round because their odds are so poor. From the 2016 draft alone, next year's Devils will feature two players selected with 'low-odds' picks in Bratt and Joey Anderson.
I don't think Veleno is 'safe', I think he's a future star 1C who also has a high floor. I don't see him falling to #17 in any scenario. The kid is just a tremendous hockey player who checks off every box in the scouting handbook. I have him ranked in my top 7 right now (subject to change, of course).
1 Dahlin
2 Svechnikov
3 Hughes
4 Zadina
5 Tkachuk
6 Wahlstrom
7 Veleno
8 Boqvist
9 Smith
10 Farabee
To me, there is a large drop off after Svechnikov at #2, but no huge drop-off between 3 and 10. So if anyone asks why I think Tkachuk is better than Boqvist, it's all pretty close in this range.
Zippy316
aka Zippo
11. Bouchard
12. Dobson
13. Bokk
14. Miller
15. Wilde
16. Kravtsov
17. Thomas
18. Hayton
19. Alexeyev
20. Kotkaniemi
Zippy316
aka Zippo
Suprised you have him so low.
I really, really like Bouchard. Reminds me a lot of a Keith/Suter defender where they just constantly make the smart, simple plays up and down the ice and can just eat up minutes because of it.
#11 is not low. I'm a huge fan of Bouchard -- so much that, even though I am a guy who weighs heavily on speed/skating, I have him just outside the top 10 despite below average wheels.
To me, Bouchard will wind up being somewhere between prime-era Shea Weber and Brent Seabrook, which is a very high compliment. But I do not think it is an insult of his phenomenal future that I would not take Bouchard before Boqvist or Smith. I just think that defensemen who skate like Boqvist and Smith literally tilt the ice in their team's directions every time they step on the ice. But the important idea to note is that I think they are all extremely close (8,9,11) in my book and I can say with all conviction that all three of these kids have an extremely bright NHL future.
Brooklyndevil
Registered User
If Veleno was to drop to 17, Shero has to pick him, no doubt whatsoever.
I don't see that happening, but I agree. The only exception would be the more impossible scenario of Veleno and Smith BOTH dropping to 17. Man, would that be a tough call. Two future all-stars with high upsides and virtually no downsides, both at key positions.
Veleno hasn't produced enough for me to put him in the top #10. When the majority of his points are collected on the PP, it's something that bothers me.
Another point would be his average performance at the U-18. I'm expecting him to carry his team yet Lafreniere and Lavoie where playing much better imo. True Lafreniere is probably the #1 overall pick in 2020 (I don't see anyone else tbh) but I wanted to see more out of him and it didn't happen.
I watched Veleno play midget AAA for the "Lions du Lac St-Louis" and the kid was just absurd. I'm not knocking him for his overall play because he's a very smart hockey player and his hockey IQ is off the charts. I'm just not sold on his offensive game for me to be comfortable taking him before Boqvist. I'd view that has a "Zacha over Provorov" type of situation but that's just my opinion.
One of the things that might be in his favour is that there's no centers the top #5 and a team wanting a pivot might reach.
DevilsJunkie
Registered User
What about Jonny Tychonick? I know he's a 6'0" LD, plays in Penticton, and is committed to NoDak. Seems as if he skates pretty well and has offensive upside. Defensive game needs developing, but doesn't seem like that is much of a concern. Seems like a small reach at #17, but if Devils trade down he might be a target. Like what little I've read of him so far.
Everything you said is true about Tychonick. With his speed and propensity to join the rush, he's sort of a prototypical "new age" defender. I think he will hear his name called in the 27-40 range overall, although he needs to add a lot of core strength and gain experience against stiffer competition -- I think he's 4 or so years away from the NHL.
I would be fine with the Devils drafting Tychonick if the braintrust really believed in his upside, but not at 17. He's the kind of player I would think about if a team were willing to overpay from late in the 1st round to move up -- the obvious candidates being the Red Wings and the Rangers.
Shakir ONeal
Jimmy Hughes
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I'm not going to put down the pick entirely, more than a handful of teams reportedly had Boqvist in their top 30 overall.
If I were picking 36 in last year's draft, the choice would have been Heponiemi, Samberg or Lipanov -- and Boqvist would not have even entered the conversation.
That being said, now that NJ picked him, I hope Boqvist fulfills his utmost potential and proves me wrong.
David Conte and Lou thought that you draft for grit in every round as they got older.
His production really jumped after his trade to Drumondville. In 33 games he put up a very nice stat line of 16-32-48 in 33 games. But prior to that with Saint John it was non top 10 worthy stat line of 6-25-31 in 31 games.
St John stunk so that certainly played into it, but that lack of goal scoring, bad team or not, is a concern for a pick that high. Does that all wash away with his better showing for Drumondville? Maybe.
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
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can i ask why you 'strongly disagreed' on boqvist, and whether your opinion has changed since then? i don't know much about him, but i have high hopes
OmNomNom
Taco is Love, Taco is Life
can i guess since people are asking - it's not about boqvist being bad other than who else was available?
marcus davidsson
heponiemi
dylan samberg
maxime comtois
i think you had some preferences for who to pick? am i right?
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