OT: 2018 NFL Thread

[Jack Be Quick]

Adrian Peterson too who was a generational talent. Also OJ Simpson though everybody wants to forget about him. If you don't have that QB you won't win. You will find yourself stalling in the red zone very often and settling for field goals

Trent dilfer, Brad Johnson, joe flacco, jim McMahon, terry Bradshaw, Mark rypien, and jeff hostetler would like to have a word with you. Most of those guys had powerhouse running games and/or monster D's. Many people also don't think Eli was ever very good (I think he's first ballot but am obviously biased), and I believe brett Favre was worse than him. Dude produced int's like he was being paid for it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Trent dilfer, Brad Johnson, joe flacco, jim McMahon, terry Bradshaw, Mark rypien, and jeff hostetler would like to have a word with you. Most of those guys had powerhouse running games and/or monster D's. Many people also don't think Eli was ever very good (I think he's first ballot but am obviously biased), and I believe brett Favre was worse than him. Dude produced int's like he was being paid for it.

wait

you think Eli Manning is/was better than Brett Favre?

you aren't serious are you?

 

[NJDevs26]

Bradshaw does not belong with that grouping...he won four SB's in six years and was MVP for a couple of them, he was a legitimate top QB for several years. The rest were more or less one-hit wonders and Eli was a two-hit wonder.

And yes you can win a SB with a subpar QB if you have an all-time defense or are the Eagles last year, but teams with great QB's are always competitive year-in and year-out. Teams with great RB's that's not neccesarily true as both the Giants and Cowboys are finding out this year.

 

[blood gin]

Also it has to be said Jeff Hostetler was always a pretty good QB. Never great but when he got a chance to start he did pretty well. Remember back in the 80's the league was structured a lot different than it is now. You had good backups who stayed with the same team for years!

Lots of revisionist history here. Brad Johnson was always a capable QB. Never bad for any sort of significant stretches. 2002 Bucs were not a powerhouse running team in any way.

Dilfer was legitimately terrible but that Ravens team was a defense the likes we'll never see again. 1990 Giants defense and 2000 Ravens defensive play has been banned from the league in absolute literal terms

 

[Devils Dominion]

Way too early to tell, but there are many indicators pointing to this statement coming to fruition.

Well, I've been saying this since pre-draft so I'll continue.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

wait

you think Eli Manning is/was better than Brett Favre?

you aren't serious are you?

Sure am.

Favre threw as many or more int's than td's 6 times in his career, 6. Eli has "accomplished" that feat once. Their qb rating is about par, 2 super bowl mvp's to 0, 2 super bowl wins to 1, 7 4k+ yard seasons to 6, and in 2011 Eli threw for almost 5k yards - a number Favre never sniffed - while marching the giants straight through the playoffs to defeat what may have been the best team in NFL history. Favre has the edge in game winning drives 43-35 but Eli's career isn't over.

So yeah, I'd say his resume holds up.

People love to hate on Eli because he's goofy as hell, Peyton's baby bro, it looks like he's falling apart this season (with a terrible o-line and obj being an ass), and he's under the unforgiving NY media spotlight. But the man has gotten the job done.

 

[blood gin]

I want to believe that, unfortunately they play a lot of bad teams from here on out and will probably win just enough to miss out on herbert and lock.

Neither are going to be that special. Don't waste your time with those two.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Favre was no question better than Eli

Not even close

 

[blood gin]

the point is you can find a stud RB outside the top 5

you cannot typically find a stud QB past the top 10

Listen you can't deny Barkley had a great game on Thursday. Still the greatest and most impactful rushing performance in that stadium was accomplished by a 3rd rounder and udfa a few days prior

 

[blood gin]

Favre was no question better than Eli

Not even close

Which Favre? And which Eli. That's what this argument is

Eli is criminally underappreciated. Almost insultingly so where people say he's a dork or looks slack jawed, not intelligent. Lucky. All of that is untrue. He's swallowed that for a lot of years, said nothing, worked very hard and done some incredible things.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Bradshaw does not belong with that grouping...he won four SB's in six years and was MVP for a couple of them, he was a legitimate top QB for several years. The rest were more or less one-hit wonders and Eli was a two-hit wonder.

And yes you can win a SB with a subpar QB if you have an all-time defense or are the Eagles last year, but teams with great QB's are always competitive year-in and year-out. Teams with great RB's that's not neccesarily true as both the Giants and Cowboys are finding out this year.

I honestly believe we'll never know if that's true or not. But there's a reason there are more o-lineman - the least glamorous position in the game besides maybe punter - in the hall than any other position. Do we ever hear Tom Brady's name if he's drafted by the Browns? Would Belichek be less successful with a Drew Stafford or Boomer type? I doubt it, but that's just my opinion.

 

[blood gin]

I honestly believe we'll never know if that's true or not. But there's a reason there are more o-lineman - the least glamorous position in the game besides maybe punter - in the hall than any other position. Do we ever hear Tom Brady's name if he's drafted by the Browns? Would Belichek be less successful with a Drew Stafford or Boomer type? I doubt it, but that's just my opinion.

Brady was too driven and too hard a worker to not succeed wherever he went. If he ended up in a bad situation his career would've been at worst Rivers or Brees. Belichick is strange because he already had a pretty substantial coaching pedigree when Bledsoe got hurt. And it wasn't good. But he walked into a very tough Browns situation and was a first time coach. The thing that could have hurt him was suppose no Brady. Year two in New England goes down the drain. He may have gotten fired. Would he have gotten a third chance? I would think yes if he stuck around the league as a DC. But if Kraft is patient then Belichick likely finds success there as well without Brady, just not to the degree they have now. Both Brady and Belichick are too smart to end up not making it in the league

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Favre was no question better than Eli

Not even close

I'm sorry, but the stats and hardware disagree with you.

I'll give the Eli detractors this, he does have time to slightly tarnish this as he probably has 2 more seasons left in him after this one. Or the Giants can bolster that O-line and be competitive next year which would end this conversation altogether. The NFL's weird like that because the only guarantee year in and year out is that the pats will be in the playoffs and the browns won't.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Bradshaw does not belong with that grouping...he won four SB's in six years and was MVP for a couple of them, he was a legitimate top QB for several years. The rest were more or less one-hit wonders and Eli was a two-hit wonder.

And yes you can win a SB with a subpar QB if you have an all-time defense or are the Eagles last year, but teams with great QB's are always competitive year-in and year-out. Teams with great RB's that's not neccesarily true as both the Giants and Cowboys are finding out this year.

Bradshaw had Harris and the iron curtain. C'mon now.

And how could I forget journeyman Nick Foles?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Listen you can't deny Barkley had a great game on Thursday. Still the greatest and most impactful rushing performance in that stadium was accomplished by a 3rd rounder and udfa a few days prior

Barkley had that performance and the Giants still got crushed

what does that tell you?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Favre- 62%, 5.0 TD %, 3.3 INT%, 7.1 YPA
Eli- 60%, 4.5 TD%, 3.0 INT%, 7.0 YPA

again tell me how Eli was better....?

 

[blood gin]

Bradshaw had Harris and the iron curtain. C'mon now.

And how could I forget journeyman Nick Foles?

Well Foles had success too. Some amazing albeit brief success He wasn't a bad QB. But you can't forget Wentz who is on his way to being a great QB did most of the regular season heavy lifting. Foles starting from day 1 who knows where the Eagles are. Jim McMahon was a good QB when he played. He was just always hurt. In 1985 McMahon was considered a good QB with a bright future. But that Bears defense was just freakish.

You very rarely see an average or below average QB start or win a Super Bowl. Woodley made it to one. Grossman. More often than not it's Montana, Brady, Young, Mannings, Elway, Stabler, Bradshaw, Staubach, Aikman, Tark, Ben, Griese, Kelly and on and on.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Favre- 62%, 5.0 TD %, 3.3 INT%, 7.1 YPA
Eli- 60%, 4.5 TD%, 3.0 INT%, 7.0 YPA

again tell me how Eli was better....?

I already did, scroll up a bit. Your stat lines however have them pretty close to equal.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Barkley had that performance and the Giants still got crushed

what does that tell you?

That Beckham has pretty much given up, the o-line is trash, and the D had a terrible game. Eli wasn't very good, but he's also not the reason the Giants lost.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That Beckham has pretty much given up, the o-line is trash, and the D had a terrible game. Eli wasn't very good, but he's also not the reason the Giants lost.

so basically they shouldn't have picked a running back 2nd overall since the team has many issues

glad we both agree.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

I already did, scroll up a bit. Your stat lines however have them pretty close to equal.

I don't really agree and only posted the them because you - and others - scoffed at the idea of this even being a conversation. Good on you for coming around.

 

[blood gin]

I finally figured out who Barkley reminds me of in terms of appearance and style on the field. This has nothing to do with ability or what kind of career he'll have or anything like that.

When you watch him he is a carbon copy of Maurice Jones Drew (though taller). He looks just like him on the field

 

[Jack Be Quick]

so basically they shouldn't have picked a running back 2nd overall since the team has many issues

glad we both agree.

Because the Giants are 2-4 or 3-3 with Darnold instead of Barkley? They also got a first round o-line talent early in the second but he's extremely green.

What are you talking about?

 

[blood gin]

Because the Giants are 2-4 or 3-3 with Darnold instead of Barkley? They also got a first round o-line talent early in the second but he's extremely green.

What are you talking about?

Giants seemed a bit doomed regardless of who they took in round two. And they didn't need to take Darnold if they like Allen or Rosen better. But at least you'll know you can have the QB spot secured for a very long time.

Darnold wasn't supposed to start for us. But he won the job after holding out. And he won it at 20 years old. Running backs have shorter peaks, shorter careers in general and are exposed to high risk collisions frequently. William Andrews was on his way to the Hall of Fame. Gale Sayers was let in

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Look, if you truly think that Eli is better than Favre, there is nothing left to say. Its clear how slanted your view is