2018 Management Discussion, Pt. III - Now with Less Trevor and More Mutiny

Sell the Team Chant


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valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
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No kidding. Oh well, even though this new management group seems no better than the last, they have McDavid. Superstars usually win a cup some day.

Strangely enough I'd have no problem with that - that team doesn't deserve jack shit, but McD does, and the country does. If he's gonna win a cup with that team, sure why not.

It will also be a good kick in Aquaman's nuts.

Hopefully by that time Dim Jim's no longer in BC.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,921
Strangely enough I'd have no problem with that - that team doesn't deserve jack ****, but McD does, and the country does. If he's gonna win a cup with that team, sure why not.

It will also be a good kick in Aquaman's nuts.

Hopefully by that time Dim Jim's no longer in BC.
What? You hate Aquilini so much you would rather see the (hated) Oilers win a Cup instead of us? Okay, how about the Flames and the Leafs? Would you like to see them win Cups ahead of us too?
Personally, I want us to win a Cup. If we can’t, then I rank the teams in order of who has the least fans to celebrate winning, and hope they succeed.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
Sponsor
May 19, 2011
9,888
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What? You hate Aquilini so much you would rather see the (hated) Oilers win a Cup instead of us? Okay, how about the Flames and the Leafs? Would you like to see them win Cups ahead of us too?
Personally, I want us to win a Cup. If we can’t, then I rank the teams in order of who has the least fans to celebrate winning, and hope they succeed.

I despise all the incompetent lying sacks of pig excrement who are currently running this team.

If seeing the Albertans and Ontariorites raising the cup is what it takes for these pricks to wake the f*** up, so be it.

And I'm not cheering for those teams to win, but I won't lose a minute of sleep if it comes to be.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
What? You hate Aquilini so much you would rather see the (hated) Oilers win a Cup instead of us? Okay, how about the Flames and the Leafs? Would you like to see them win Cups ahead of us too?
Personally, I want us to win a Cup. If we can’t, then I rank the teams in order of who has the least fans to celebrate winning, and hope they succeed.

Absolutely! Especially the Leafs who have actually rebuilt their team properly. None of this half-assed "try to make the playoffs every year" crap and only call it a rebuild after several years of failing at what they were trying to do and thus picked up some nice prospects in the draft because that's how the draft works BS. Some people have fallen for that, others were smart enough to see through it.
 
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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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Wow! There is actually visceral hatred of Canuck’s management here. Don’t you guys think we have the best under 23 prospect pool ever? All those guys, excepting Bo, were brought here by current management.
 

MarkusNaslund19

Registered User
Dec 28, 2005
5,415
7,645
Absolutely! Especially the Leafs who have actually rebuilt their team properly. None of this half-assed "try to make the playoffs every year" crap and only call it a rebuild after several years of failing at what they were trying to do and thus picked up some nice prospects in the draft because that's how the draft works BS. Some people have fallen for that, others were smart enough to see through it.

I never get tired of your passive self-back pats, "Others were smart enough to see through it".

Also, you're loathing of the current braintrust makes you the worst kind of fan.

I get not liking them, Benning isn't my favorite GM and Aquillini sucks as an owner. But I've seen you say that you hope we lost 10-0 every game until they are gone. Ridiculous.
 

Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
4,193
5,042
Germany
Don’t you guys think we have the best under 23 prospect pool ever?

Best of what? Best of Canucks history or just best ever?

But man I remember when there were the Sedins, Bryan Allen and folks were high on the likey of Druken, Vydareny, Bonni and Chubarov. There was Jovanovski who was 23 back in 99/2000 and Josh Holden was still around, we also had Ohlund and Aucoin who as a 22y old scored 23 goals.
 

The Drop

Rain Drop, Drop Top
Jul 12, 2015
14,873
4,060
Vancouver
I never get tired of your passive self-back pats, "Others were smart enough to see through it".

Also, you're loathing of the current braintrust makes you the worst kind of fan.

I get not liking them, Benning isn't my favorite GM and Aquillini sucks as an owner. But I've seen you say that you hope we lost 10-0 every game until they are gone. Ridiculous.
Would you prefer to just be this heaping pile of junk until the end of time or would you take embarrassing losses game after game for the next season which forces their hand?
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,806
3,370
Burnaby
What? You hate Aquilini so much you would rather see the (hated) Oilers win a Cup instead of us? Okay, how about the Flames and the Leafs? Would you like to see them win Cups ahead of us too?
Personally, I want us to win a Cup. If we can’t, then I rank the teams in order of who has the least fans to celebrate winning, and hope they succeed.

I'd like the Canucks to win the cup. They won't. I'd rather watch teams we hate who build right win the cup while we're in the basement rather than watch them lose while we toil in mediocrity, maybe this will help us win a cup by making our ownership/management/fans wake up.
 

Foundational Player

Benning the Incompetent
Mar 27, 2008
1,074
833
BC
Wow! There is actually visceral hatred of Canuck’s management here. Don’t you guys think we have the best under 23 prospect pool ever? All those guys, excepting Bo, were brought here by current management.

Once again it's the sum of the parts. Look at Bennings' entire body of work. Yes the organization has one of the better group of prospects in the league but who are 'all of those guys' again your suggesting? Boeser, Stetcher and a bunch of top notch prospects.......................prospects. Nothing proven at the highest level of play as of yet so lets just temper projections until these kids stick in the NHL.

Management should be judged on all aspects of the operating the franchise. One does not simply ignore the failings and mistakes and pick out the lone achievement. 1 out of 10 is still 10 percent.

After 5 years, this management group has failed the grade and continues to flounder.

Another top 5 pick incoming for a team that is trying to remain competitive in hopes of a playoff spot in 2019.
 
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MarkusNaslund19

Registered User
Dec 28, 2005
5,415
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Would you prefer to just be this heaping pile of junk until the end of time or would you take embarrassing losses game after game for the next season which forces their hand?
Or I can believe that people aren't static and that Jim Benning, who came in new, may just have done some growing on the job. I wanted Benning gone at the end of his contract, but I do love his last two first round picks. They are both who I wanted before the draft and that hasn't happened a lot in our history.

The problem, to me, is the meddling of the Aquillinis. Everything I hear is just negative about the way they choose to conduct themselves. You can't live in Vancouver and not hear some of these things.
 
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Dissonance Jr

Registered User
Oct 6, 2017
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Best of what? Best of Canucks history or just best ever?

But man I remember when there were the Sedins, Bryan Allen and folks were high on the likey of Druken, Vydareny, Bonni and Chubarov. There was Jovanovski who was 23 back in 99/2000 and Josh Holden was still around, we also had Ohlund and Aucoin who as a 22y old scored 23 goals.

We also had a *tremendous* group of under-23 players in 1983. Cam Neely, Patrik Sundstrom, Tony Tanti, Moe Lemay, Doug Lidster, Garth Butcher, J.J. Daigneault, Michel Petit, Rick Lanz, among others.

Too bad the team ended up being absolutely terrible for the rest of the decade. Something to do with poor management, as I recall....
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,288
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Too bad the team ended up being absolutely terrible for the rest of the decade. Something to do with poor management, as I recall....
No cap then either - not that spending $$$$$ automaticaly means success. It just means a team that can't compete for the best free agents have a far lower margin of error when making mistakes (as even the best GMs do). I'm also guessing they didn't spend alot on the scouting department either.
 
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Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
“learning on the job”

imagine treating a 55 year old manager of a 700 million dollar organization to the standard of a 15 year old walmart cashier

Also, unlike linden, he actually came to us with several years of front office experience, where be was ostensibly learning the tools of the trade.

Course, he was learning from Peter Chiarelli...
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
I never get tired of your passive self-back pats, "Others were smart enough to see through it".

Also, you're loathing of the current braintrust makes you the worst kind of fan.

I get not liking them, Benning isn't my favorite GM and Aquillini sucks as an owner. But I've seen you say that you hope we lost 10-0 every game until they are gone. Ridiculous.

Yup, I hope the Canucks get victimized 10-0 every game. I'm not the worst kind of fan either, but it's cute you think that. Finally, I don't get tired of my own self-back pats either. I don't deserve a whole lot of credit though because it wasn't that difficult to be right on this. It didn't take too much intelligence to tell that the Benning regime would be an unmitigated disaster. Some of us just arrived to that conclusion sooner than others (while sadly some still think Benning has done a good job......I have some Bre-X stock to sell those people).
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Wow! There is actually visceral hatred of Canuck’s management here. Don’t you guys think we have the best under 23 prospect pool ever? All those guys, excepting Bo, were brought here by current management.

I think the disconnect is between people who understand how the NHL draft works, and people who clearly don't.

Do the Canucks have a solid prospect pool? Yes.

Would any team have a solid prospect pool if they had as many bad seasons as the Canucks have had? Yes.

Why? Because that's how the draft works. You have bad seasons, you get high draft picks (unless you trade them away). Your first round pick usually ends up being a good player, while your second round pick is usually the same caliber of prospect that good teams end up getting at the end of the first round (because you have a high second round pick too). And so on.
 
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y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Or I can believe that people aren't static and that Jim Benning, who came in new, may just have done some growing on the job. I wanted Benning gone at the end of his contract, but I do love his last two first round picks. They are both who I wanted before the draft and that hasn't happened a lot in our history.

The problem, to me, is the meddling of the Aquillinis. Everything I hear is just negative about the way they choose to conduct themselves. You can't live in Vancouver and not hear some of these things.

First of all, that's a ridiculous point of view to take. "Duhhh da GM sucked but he learned. c'mon guys, being a GM is a tough job, give him a break!" Ridiculous. Secondly, he just signed Antoine Roussell and Jay Beagle to long-term contracts. Anyone who wants to try that BS "ohhh he's learning, leave him alone" crap can toss that shit out the window right now.

Not f***ing up a 5th and 7th overall pick doesn't mean you should keep your job. You shouldn't be f***ing those picks up! But hey, let's ignore that he f***ed up a 6th overall pick in his first draft, and the 5th overall pick in 2016.

:shakehead

The Aquilini's meddling is an issue, don't get me wrong. But that doesn't excuse Benning for being completely incompetent in his job.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,921
I think the disconnect is between people who understand how the NHL draft works, and people who clearly don't.

Do the Canucks have a solid prospect pool? Yes.

Would any team have a solid prospect pool if they had as many bad seasons as the Canucks have had? Yes.

Why? Because that's how the draft works. You have bad seasons, you get high draft picks (unless you trade them away). Your first round pick usually ends up being a good player, while your second round pick is usually the same caliber of prospect that good teams end up getting at the end of the first round (because you have a high second round pick too). And so on.
I agree. Higher picks = better (odds) of good players. Is your biggest gripe with our current regime their insistence to state publicly they are building a team to compete for the playoffs, while (obviously) the team was clearly bottom five? I guess we were either lying, or tanking by accident. Either way, we have a really good group of young players now.
 

Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
5,948
3,850
I think so; if Demko outplays Nilsson then Nilsson gets traded or waived. I don't see why they would have any motive to do otherwise.

The scenario you describe could happen, though at the beginning of the season I doubt there's any market at all for Nilsson, so it'd be a waiver.

There is a motivation to do otherwise, and that's to maximize assets.

I'd like to see the team start with last year's tandem and do everything they can to get both going well (somewhat fewer starts for Markstrom, and absolutely no back-to-backs, and somewhat more starts for Nilsson).

If Nilsson doesn't do better than last season, then sure, waive him at the twenty game mark or so, but if he does pick it up, try to get something for either Markstrom or Nilsson, and then bring Demko up.

Your scenario is far more likely than mine, given this management's history.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
9,099
10,546
The scenario you describe could happen, though at the beginning of the season I doubt there's any market at all for Nilsson, so it'd be a waiver.

There is a motivation to do otherwise, and that's to maximize assets.

I'd like to see the team start with last year's tandem and do everything they can to get both going well (somewhat fewer starts for Markstrom, and absolutely no back-to-backs, and somewhat more starts for Nilsson).

If Nilsson doesn't do better than last season, then sure, waive him at the twenty game mark or so, but if he does pick it up, try to get something for either Markstrom or Nilsson, and then bring Demko up.

Your scenario is far more likely than mine, given this management's history.

I thought about that. But ownership and management will be desperate to sell tickets this season, and playing younger players like Demko will be one of the only ways to spark interest in fans. That, along with Nilsson having a pretty bad season last year, might be enough incentive to waive him. But I'd prefer we hold on to him, try to give him enough starts so that he has some value (a 4th/5th round pick), and then dump him some time before the trade deadline.
 
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Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
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I agree. Higher picks = better (odds) of good players. Is your biggest gripe with our current regime their insistence to state publicly they are building a team to compete for the playoffs, while (obviously) the team was clearly bottom five? I guess we were either lying, or tanking by accident. Either way, we have a really good group of young players now.

My biggest gripe (I know you addressed it to Y2K, and I'm not trying to speak for him, of course), is that if management had handled things properly, there'd be two to four more good prospects in the system right now, and several fewer bad contracts.

I think this issue is at the heart of much of the disagreement between management supporters and critics.

Supporters:
The prospect group is excellent and also sufficient to form the core of a contender. Continuing to draft well with the standard number of picks will get the job done.

Critics:
There are some good prospects coming along, but not enough to lead the Canucks to contention. Management has failed to recognize where the team is in its cycle and thus to acquire more picks, and continuing to rely on only the standard number will see the team top out as mediocre (see the Calgary Flames).
 
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