WJC: 2018 Groups

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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Usually based on the prior years standings with 1/4/5/8/9 being in a group and 2/3/6/7/promoted team making up the other group. However they have a Canada/USA outdoor game scheduled which means Canada/USA have to be in the same group, now that they will finish 1/2 they have to manipulate the normal groups to make this happen, anyone know how they plan to do this? I presume they will swap 1 of Canada/USA with 1 of Russia/Sweden putting Canada/USA in the same group with Russia/Sweden in the same group, but unsure of which teams will be grouped with which.

A/Denmark/Slovakia/Finland
B/Czech Republic/Switzerland/Belarus

With A and B being 1 of the Canada/United States, and Russia/Sweden pairs

this years final standings

1. CAN/USA
2. CAN/USA
3. RUS/SWE
3. RUS/SWE
5. DEN
6. CZE
7. SUI
8. SVK
9. FIN
10. LAT
Promoted Team: BLR
 

Nash

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Jul 23, 2004
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Vancouver
I don't think they should bend the rules to foster a rivalry that has been the creation of TSN over the years with the New Year's Eve classic. Russia and Sweden have been bigger rivals over many years the past decade plus vs Canada.

That outdoor game should be USA vs SWE/RUS, whatever combination of 1/4 or 2/3 finishers that end up in the same group.
 

wingman75

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Dec 3, 2008
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The QC
I don't think they should bend the rules to foster a rivalry that has been the creation of TSN over the years with the New Year's Eve classic. Russia and Sweden have been bigger rivals over many years the past decade plus vs Canada.

That outdoor game should be USA vs SWE/RUS, whatever combination of 1/4 or 2/3 finishers that end up in the same group.

With 'New Era Stadium' being less than 30 minutes from the Canadian border, the organizers are banking on a LOT of Canadians making the trip to watch that game. USA vs CAN almost guarantees a big crowd (maybe a sellout). Where as USA vs SWE/RUS would not draw nearly as many (less than half as many I would guess).

Ticket sales will depend on how USA Hockey market it I guess. I am sure the Sabres will be involved too somehow along with all the other local minor teams.

I am okay with the 1/2 in the same group. We saw this year how FIN was the 1 and how bad they were, with the age type tournaments nothing is for sure (regarding team performance).
 

Xokkeu

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Apr 5, 2012
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Frozen
I don't think they should bend the rules to foster a rivalry that has been the creation of TSN over the years with the New Year's Eve classic. Russia and Sweden have been bigger rivals over many years the past decade plus vs Canada.

That outdoor game should be USA vs SWE/RUS, whatever combination of 1/4 or 2/3 finishers that end up in the same group.

Dude lets be real. Unless they pay people to go a USA Russia or USA Sweden outdoor game is going to have like 8000 people there.
 

Statsy

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Dec 21, 2009
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I don't think they should bend the rules to foster a rivalry that has been the creation of TSN over the years with the New Year's Eve classic. Russia and Sweden have been bigger rivals over many years the past decade plus vs Canada.

That outdoor game should be USA vs SWE/RUS, whatever combination of 1/4 or 2/3 finishers that end up in the same group.
Are you sure you're from Canada? I wouldn't expect a European to understand the bitter hatred Canada and the US have for one another in hockey, but I think you should know better. It isn't just the WJC either, it's every damn tournament!

The outdoor game is going to be a big financial risk and it would be suicidal to have any other match-up in the US than for them to be playing against Canada. Pretty sure they're going to need more than half the fans to be crossing the border to get them the kind of crowd they are looking for.
 

xIsle

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Oct 24, 2006
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Montreal
Group for next year:

Group A:
Canada
USA
Denmark (5th)
Slovakia (8th)
Finland (9th)

Group B
Sweden
Russia
Czech Rep. (6th)
Switzerland (7th)
Belarus

I'm pretty sure IIHF will make an exception for next year and put Canada and USA on the same group.
 

MNNumbers

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Nov 17, 2011
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And, there is justification for a change, since, looking only at Pool play, Sweden would get the Number 1. By goal difference over USA

And, since SWE would be#1, then you have the natural Scandinavian pool of SWE, RUS, DEN, AND FIN together.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Group for next year:

Group A:
Canada
USA
Denmark (5th)
Slovakia (8th)
Finland (9th)

Group B
Sweden
Russia
Czech Rep. (6th)
Switzerland (7th)
Belarus

I'm pretty sure IIHF will make an exception for next year and put Canada and USA on the same group.

It's already confirmed that Canada and USA are in the same group.
 

theaub

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Nov 21, 2008
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And, there is justification for a change, since, looking only at Pool play, Sweden would get the Number 1. By goal difference over USA

And, since SWE would be#1, then you have the natural Scandinavian pool of SWE, RUS, DEN, AND FIN together.

I concur with this.

If you're going to screw with the integrity of the tournament in the first place, may as well go all out and basically handpick the groups for optimal rivalries.
 

MNNumbers

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And, there is justification for a change, since, looking only at Pool play, Sweden would get the Number 1. By goal difference over USA

And, since SWE would be#1, then you have the natural Scandinavian pool of SWE, RUS, DEN, AND FIN together.

I concur with this.

If you're going to screw with the integrity of the tournament in the first place, may as well go all out and basically handpick the groups for optimal rivalries.

Right. And, Canada and USA are always in the same group. Or, almost always. Always when the tourney is in No America, anyway. So, once you put USA/CAN and RUS/SWE together, which you have to, because this year's semi-finalists have to split 2/2. And, once you have DEN/FIN and CZECH/BELARUS together, which are the appropriate splits according the results of this year.....

Then it sure looks like the better thing to do to put the Swedes with the Finns and Danes.

Easy peasy.
 

Statsy

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Dec 21, 2009
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Vancouver
Meh should have kept things the same. They want an outdoor game for this do it before the tourney starts.

If you're going to do an outdoor game, it's sure as hell not going to be an exhibition game. Just think of how it would look to have 50,000 empty seats.
 

Xokkeu

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Apr 5, 2012
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Frozen
They moved teams when Sweden and Finland cohosted. It's not unprecedented and really the outrage seems kind of overblown.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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They moved teams when Sweden and Finland cohosted. It's not unprecedented and really the outrage seems kind of overblown.

For the World Championships they did. I don't recall it ever happening before at the World Juniors.

Not a big deal for me, the top 4 are all relatively equal, so 1/2 3/4 this year you don't know if it will even be lopsided or not last year. Likely less so than this year regardless as the 3 medalists have all come from the same group this year.

I was just curious if there was an official report on exactly which group of 3 Canada/USA would be with.
 

clevelandcane

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Dec 30, 2011
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Ohio
I hate this outdoor game. I'm all set to attend my first tourney and was so excited for the US/CAN game in particular. Now? I'm not paying to freeze my ass off sit, 1/2 a mile away, and not even see what's going on. So stupid and an obvious money grab. Very disappointing.
 

Rob

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Feb 27, 2002
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I hate this outdoor game. I'm all set to attend my first tourney and was so excited for the US/CAN game in particular. Now? I'm not paying to freeze my ass off sit, 1/2 a mile away, and not even see what's going on. So stupid and an obvious money grab. Very disappointing.

Part of me wants that outdoor game to draw flies.
 

Statsy

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Dec 21, 2009
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Vancouver
I hate this outdoor game. I'm all set to attend my first tourney and was so excited for the US/CAN game in particular. Now? I'm not paying to freeze my ass off sit, 1/2 a mile away, and not even see what's going on. So stupid and an obvious money grab. Very disappointing.

Though I understand why they are doing this outdoor game, I'm with you on this. For actual enjoyment of the game, I think they are better off with the standard indoor New Year's Eve Classic.
 

baronsforever

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May 20, 2014
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The IIHF sport regulations allow the host to make changes to the group formations if the teams in question agree, there is no bending of the rules. It has happened a few times in the men's, but has never happened before in the juniors.
 

Xokkeu

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Apr 5, 2012
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Frozen
Though I understand why they are doing this outdoor game, I'm with you on this. For actual enjoyment of the game, I think they are better off with the standard indoor New Year's Eve Classic.

I went to my first outdoor game a few years back for a college hockey game. It was kind of cool, but after doing it once and freezing my ass off at Soldier field, I am content to never do it again. Depending on ticket prices I might do this one, but I'd much prefer it indoors.
 

Past Considerations

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May 13, 2007
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Finland
With whatever pools the International Ice Hockey Federation determines, the host may petition for one team to be moved from one pool to another, virtually guaranteeing the desired matchup.
http://www.tsn.ca/sources-outdoor-game-planned-for-2018-world-juniors-in-buffalo-1.403558
So this is an actual rule? Anyone got a rulebook.pdf reference? At least there's that then, and not just something pulled out of a hat a la NHL & World Cup groups.

And this certainly wouldn't be the first time this supposed rule has been used. I remember at least once one team being moved to a group that was closer to its country border. This team may have been Men's tournmanet, team being Finland and the host Russia (groups in St Peterburg & Moscow or something).

I don't like this though.
 

Past Considerations

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May 13, 2007
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Finland
Group stage isn't all that meaningful anyways so who cares if they manipulate the groups a little bit?
In a way it does affect, actually everything. If the balance of the group changes considerably, some are going to have it easier and some are going to have it harder, either the start of the tournament or the road to the final games (QFs mainly). However, if the groups are based on lottery or ranking or both, then that's it and no one has reasons to question "what if".
 

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