2018 Franchise Draft semi-final series: Quebec Aces vs. Chicago Cougars

[VanIslander]

coach Lester Patrick

Syd Howe - Joe Sakic (A) - Maurice Richard (A)
Vladimir Krutov - Evgeni Malkin - Mark Recchi
Frank Foyston (A) - Ted Kennedy (A) - Marian Hossa
Gary Roberts - Mike Peca (A) - Claude Lemieux

Denis Potvin (C) - Earl Seibert
Bill Gadsby - Drew Doughty
Alex Pietrangelo - Brent Burns

Frank Brimsek
Grant Fuhr


vs.

coach Fred Shero

Ted Lindsay - Sidney Crosby (C) - Teemu Selanne
Joe Malone - Milt Schmidt (A) - Vladimir Martinec
Daniel Sedin - Max Bentley - Punch Broadbent
Craig Ramsay - Mike Modano - Joe Mullen

Valeri Vasiliev (A) - Tim Horton
Lionel Conacher - Paul Coffey
Brad McCrimmon - Art Coulter

Patrick Roy
Mike Liut
​

​

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Quebec

PP1: Evgeni Malkin - Joe Sakic - Maurice Richard - Bill Gadsby - Denis Potvin
PP2: Vladimir Krutov - Ted Kennedy - Mark Recchi - Brent Burns - Earl Seibert

PK1: Michael Peca - Ted Kennedy - Denis Potvin - Earl Seibert
PK2: Joe Sakic - Marian Hossa - Bill Gadsby - Drew Doughty

Chicago

PP1: Ted Lindsay - Sidney Crosby - Teemu Selanne - Max Bentley - Paul Coffey
PP2: Joe Malone - Milt Schmidt - Vladimir Martinec - Tim Horton - Valeri Vasiliev

PK1: Craig Ramsay - Mike Modano - Valeri Vasiliev - Tim Horton
PK2: Milt Schmidt - Punch Broadbent - Lionel Conacher - Art Coulter

 

[BenchBrawl]

First thoughts:

1) Chicago has a clear advantage in goaltending with Patrick Roy against Frank Brimsek.However, I don't think Brimsek will lose Quebec any games.Quebec have the better backup with Grant Fuhr vs. Mike Liut, if it comes to that.

2) Quebec has a clear advantage on defense; a good case can be made that each of Quebec's Top 4 defensemen is better than his Chicago counterpart.Also, Quebec doesn't have to break their head against the wall trying to protect Paul Coffey against top shutdown unit minutes.Coach Lester Patrick can just roll the Potvin-Seibert and Gadsby-Doughty pairings and they can face any line competently.Chicago has a better 3rd pairing though.

3) Quebec have the coaching advantage with Lester Patrick vs. Fred Shero

4) Forwards are more debatable.Chicago has Modano on the 4th line, but at what cost? I feel their 3rd line of Sedin-Bentley-Broadbent is a tad ackward; perhaps not in isolation or in a vacuum, but inside the forward group as a whole.For an offense-only line, it's nothing to write home about.I'm left wondering if Modano wouldn't fit better on that line.

In fairness Quebec also have an ackward line: Krutov-Malkin-Recchi.But I feel they're better at the role they're supposed to play: bring offense.Outside of Schmidt, Chicago's defense in the middle-six is questionable.

Quebec's 3rd line roughly reproduces the proven Toews-Hossa duo with Kennedy-Hossa, with Foyston bringing some sort of all-around game to complete a prototypical 3rd line.Chicago has no equivalent line to match that role.Their 4th line is weak in talent outside Modano, Schmidt is alone defensively on his line (unless I just misjudged Martinec? I don't know him very well), their 3rd line is weak defensively, so that leaves their 1st line; not an ideal situation.Quebec's 1st line is just as good defensively as Chicago's.

As for power vs. power, both 1st lines are rather close to each other (and in most categories too!), with an edge to Chicago on talent alone mostly because Selanne > S.Howe.But functionally, they're in the same ballpark.

Overall: The talent is close between the two teams, but Quebec has a better team structure, with the role of each player and line more clearly established and easier to execute for the coaching staff.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Apologies for the lack of participation, I'll try to get some thoughts down today or tomorrow

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

A brief description of minutes distribution for Chicago from my Roster Thread post...

Est. Forward Minutes
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
Lindsay	14	4		18
Crosby	16	4		20
Selanne	14	4		18
Malone	13	3		16
Schmidt	13	3	3	19
Martinec	13	3		16
Sedin	10			10
Bentley	8	5		13
Broadbent	9		3	12
Ramsay	9		4	13
Modano	9		4	13
Mullen	10			10
TOTAL	138	26	14	178
Est. Defenseman Minutes
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
Vasiliev	17	1	4	22
Horton	17	2	4	23
Conacher	16		3	19
Coffey	19	6		25
McCrimmon	10			10
Coulter	13		3	16
TOTAL	92	9	14	115
GRAND TOTAL	230	35	28	293

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Coffey will take several ES shifts with Coulter

**Crosby will take some of Bentley's/Modano's ES shifts

***The 3rd/4th line minutes and linemantes will vary depending on situation and matchups. If a more defensive situation is presented you may see Ramsay - Modano - Broadbent together, going the other way, you may see Sedin - Bentley - Mullen in a more offensive situation or against opponents' 3rd/4th lines which are low on offensive ability.

****Intention will be to match the Crosby line against opponents' top lines.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Defense. I agree with BB that the edge goes to Quebec here. I have it something like this...

Coffey < Potvin
Horton = Seibert
Vasiliev < Gadsby
Conacher = Doughty
Coulter >> Burns
McCrimmon = Pietrangelo

Edge on the top 2 pairings goes to Quebec, with Chicago having better depth.

Fortunately, Chicago has a BIG advantage in net with Roy being much better than Brimsek

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Top 6 Forwards


1st Line 7yr vs.X

Lindsay: 104.4
Crosby: 102.4
Richard: 102.4
Sakic: 97.7
Selanne: 92.7
Howe: 83.9

Chicago: 299.5 / 99.83 avg
Quebec: 284.0 / 94.67 avg

Comments:
- Lindsay's vs.X probably overrates him due to playing with Howe.
- Crosby's vs.X underrates him due to over-punishment for injuries.
- I'd give Quebec a small edge defensively, but not as big as Chicago's offensive advantage


2nd Line 7yr vs.X

Malkin: 93.7
Recchi: 88.4
Schmidt: 86.9

Malone, Martinec, and Krutov do not have vs.X scores, here's how I'd rate them:

Malone: Upper 80's (this is taking him playing wing into account, I'd have him higher playing Center)
Martinec: Upper 80's
Krutov: Mid 80's **see edit below**

Using scores of 88.5 for Malone/Martinec and 85 for Krutov it looks like this:

Chicago: 263.9 / 87.97 avg
Quebec: 267.1 / 89.03 avg


Comments:
- Schmidt's vs.X probably underrates him due to time lost to WWII, but I still think Quebec would have a slight advantage offensively.
- Defensively these lines are set up differently, Chicago has a strong defensive center in Schmidt between 2 wingers that won't help much defensively at all (although IE seemed to uncover a little support for Martinec **see edit below**). Quebec has no players that are strong defensively, Malkin does very little, Recchi and Krutov are small pluses. I honestly think with Schmidt being so much better defensively than anyone on Quebec's 2nd line and the fact that he plays Center while Quebec's weakest defensive player is at Center, Chicago would have a defensive edge when facing each other.

EDIT: After seeing the quotes posted, I've obviously underrated Martinec's defense, which gives a clear defensive edge to Chicago's 2nd line.

Krutov's offense may need to be higher, but perhaps Martinec's should be as well as he's consistently ranked as the better player. Hope we can get some more discussion on this.

 

[Theokritos]

- Defensively these lines are set up differently, Chicago has a strong defensive center in Schmidt between 2 wingers that won't help much defensively at all (although IE seemed to uncover a little support for Martinec).

Some quotes (courtesy of @DN28 and @VMBM):

He´s calm enough when finishing offensive actions, also owns good defensive skills.

Technical, creative player with great improvisational abilities and good defensive propensities.

Not only he perfectly handles the stick and he´s fast, but he can fight in front of his own and opponent´s net - he just does it all.

He attacks and defends very well.

'Defender' is usually a good skater, as he covers comparatively large space in offensive and defensive zones. The player is usually well-built physically, has an advantage in continuous control of the puck, at the same time he acts as an ‚forward-playing antenna‘ of active defense of the team. Outstanding representatives of this type of forward – Jiří Holík and Martinec – have almost even ratio of goals scored and assists and their collective and responsible style of play for the team needs to be highly appreaciated.

'Even a simpleton can see that he is always able to carry the puck over the blue line, but his defensive contribution is never understood,' said a journalist from Pardubice in Düsseldorf.

Also, there is this:

It is clear that Martinec was a outstanding penalty killer as evident by him being top 3 in shorthanded ice time during every available tournament between 1972 and 1979. That is some truly great consistency right there.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think that HT is underrating both Krutov and Martinec a bit. Underrating Krutov offensively, underrating Martinec defensively. Krutov was the clear cut easy #2 scorer in the USSR during the 1980s - way behind Makarov, but way ahead of the pack. And all the information theo has now reposted about Martinec seems to confirm what was once just a theory as to why he was so highly regarded in Europe, despite putting up "towards the top of the pack but still in the pack" stats - his abilities away from the puck were also great. Not Jiri Holik great, but as good as any other star forward in Europe in the 1970s.

On the other hand:

Top 6 Forwards


1st Line 7yr vs.X

Lindsay: 104.4
Crosby: 102.4

Comments:
- Lindsay's vs.X probably overrates him due to playing with Howe.
- Crosby's vs.X underrates him due to over-punishment for injuries.

This is a perfect example of how 7 year VsX should be a starting point of discussion, not an end point. Because nobody here actually believes that Ted Lindsay was a better offensive player than Sidney Crosby, right?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Thanks for posting that great info on Martinec @Theokritos!

I think that HT is underrating both Krutov and Martinec a bit. Underrating Krutov offensively, underrating Martinec defensively. Krutov was the clear cut easy #2 scorer in the USSR during the 1980s - way behind Makarov, but way ahead of the pack. And all the information theo has now reposted about Martinec seems to confirm what was once just a theory as to why he was so highly regarded in Europe, despite putting up "towards the top of the pack but still in the pack" stats - his abilities away from the puck were also great. Not Jiri Holik great, but as good as any other star forward in Europe in the 1970s.

It definitely appears you're correct about Martinec's defense after seeing the quotes that were posted, and I'm open to rating Krutov's offense as higher, but how much higher? Should it be as a high as Martinec? The HOH and ATD community have consistently ranked Martinec over Krutov by a decent amount (Top Wingers Project, Top Non-NHL Euros Project, and ATD draft position), so if Krutov's offense gets bumped up am I underrating Martinec's offense as well? Or is Martinec's defense that much better where they're about even offensively, and the defensive ability is what makes the difference?...that doesn't seem right to me. Or is there something else like big game/clutch/playoff type performances where Martinec creates the gap?

This is a perfect example of how 7 year VsX should be a starting point of discussion, not an end point. Because nobody here actually believes that Ted Lindsay was a better offensive player than Sidney Crosby, right?

For sure, Crosby is definitely the better offensive player. I didn't go into further analysis, because I was thinking for the most part, the overrating of Lindsay gets offset by the underrating of Crosby, but we certainly could go deeper. Also, when factoring in longevity and playoffs, Richard is certainly a better offensive player than Lindsay as well.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Bottom 6 Forwards

This is a trickier comparison, especially with the way Chicago's bottom 6 is set up to be fluid, and the fact that Crosby will be taking some shifts at Center. Here's a reminder on how Chicago's bottom 6 will work...

***The 3rd/4th line minutes and linemantes will vary depending on situation and matchups. If a more defensive situation is presented you may see Ramsay - Modano - Broadbent together, going the other way, you may see Sedin - Bentley - Mullen in a more offensive situation or against opponents' 3rd/4th lines which are low on offensive ability.

Even Strength 7yr vs.X
Sedin: 59
Modano: 58
Mullen: 54
Hossa: 54
Ramsay: 44
C. Lemieux: 42
Peca: 40 or lower (the study stopped at 41, Peca did not make the list)

The following players do not have an ES vs.X score due to when they played, but we do have the regular 7yr vs.X as some indicator of offensive ability...

Max Bentley: 90.4
Ted Kennedy: 78.8

This is a very inexact way to do this, but let's look at the ES vs.X scores of some of the guys who have similar 7 vs.X scores as these guys (first number is 7yr, second number is ES)

Bentley Comparables
Bobby Clarke: 90.4/58
Peter Forsberg: 90.3/59
Adam Oates: 90.0/62
Mark Messier: 89.6/62

Kennedy Comparables
Brendan Shanahan: 79.0/52
Patrick Elias: 78.9/56
Tyler Seguin: 78.7/51
Pat Lafontaine: 78.5/53
Doug Weight: 78.3/48

It should also be noted that both of these guys were great playoff performers, and those post season resumes factor highly into their overall rankings, however, Kennedy was even better than Bentley in the post season.

Punch Broadbent and Frank Foyston don't have any vs.X scores. I think it's clear Foyston was the better offensive player, but I'm uncertain to what degree.


Defensive Ability

Here is my tier ranking, gaps intentional...

Ramsay (uber-elite)/Peca (elite)*

Modano/Hossa/Kennedy
Broadbent/Foyston
C. Lemieux
Mullen/Roberts
Sedin
Bentley

*I had these two on separate tiers to start, but I think having them on the same one with the caveat in parenthesis that Ramsay is a little better makes for a better overall picture.


Conclusion
In the bottom-6 there is a clear offensive advantage for Chicago and a clear defensive advantage for Quebec, but my main takeaway from this is that Quebec has a weak 4th line which will be zero threat offensively. Therefore, the strategy for Chicago seems clear which is as follows...


Chicago Bottom Six Strategy
The bulk of the minutes will go to the two-way line of Ramsay - Modano - Mullen/Broadbent.
The remaining line of D. Sedin - M. Bentley - Mullen/Broadbent will be put up against Quebec's 4th line as much as possible, as their lack of defensive ability will not matter against Quebec's 4th line who are just not good enough offensively to be a threat. Also, while Peca is elite, Lemieux and Roberts really aren't anything special defensively, Chicago likely will be able to score occasionally here, especially if out against Quebec's weaker bottom pairing, and a goalie who is below average in a draft this size.

 

[Batis]

It definitely appears you're correct about Martinec's defense after seeing the quotes that were posted, and I'm open to rating Krutov's offense as higher, but how much higher? Should it be as a high as Martinec? The HOH and ATD community have consistently ranked Martinec over Krutov by a decent amount (Top Wingers Project, Top Non-NHL Euros Project, and ATD draft position), so if Krutov's offense gets bumped up am I underrating Martinec's offense as well? Or is Martinec's defense that much better where they're about even offensively, and the defensive ability is what makes the difference?...that doesn't seem right to me. Or is there something else like big game/clutch/playoff type performances where Martinec creates the gap?

I personally don't think that there is very much separating Martinec and Krutov defensively. At this point we have more quotes talking about the defensive game of Martinec than for Krutov but we have two quotes on Krutov as well. Both of them are from Ron Reusch at the the 1987 Canada Cup and both quotes are seemingly based on what he has heard from Soviet observers.



"There is Krutov. Most valuable player in the Soviet Union last year. Most think now he is probably their best forward, he's gone by Makarov. And the thing they like to talk about Krutov, the thing they keep mentioning is not only is he a great offensive player with great speed, great balance and all of those things, but he is also a terrific defensive player, great backchecker, plays a total game."



"The most valuable player in the Soviet Union last year. 89 writers voted on this award last year 85 of them said Krutov was the most valuable player in the Soviet Union. They say that the difference between Krutov who plays one wing and the left-winger* Makarov is that Krutov handles the defensive side of the game a little better than Makarov."

*Mix up regarding which side they played.

Based on this it seems like Krutovs defensive game was the main reason why the Soviet observers believed that Krutov at that time had managed to overtake Makarov as the top forward of the Soviet Union. Considering that Makarov was a pretty accomplished defensive player himself during his prime as evident by this quote from Victor Kuzkin this suggests that Krutov was very good defensively at his peak.

"Makarov was a very mobile player. He was everywhere, went up and down, and was really good at helping his defensmen. That's why Viktor Vasilyevich Tikhonov often had him kill penalties." (Victor Kuzkin, Soviet defenseman)

While penalty killing only is one part of the defensive side of the game it is also worth noting that both Krutov and Martinec belongs near to the top of the list of the greatest penalty killing forwards from the Eastern Bloc. I don't think that any of them should be top 2 on that list (those two spots belongs to Makarov and Holik in my opinion) but I would say that both are in the conversation for the 3rd spot (along with other players like V.Golikov, V. Zhluktov, A. Almetov, K. Loktev and V. Starshinov)

 

[Namba 17]

I personally don't think that there is very much separating Martinec and Krutov defensively. At this point we have more quotes talking about the defensive game of Martinec than for Krutov but we have two quotes on Krutov as well. Both of them are from Ron Reusch at the the 1987 Canada Cup and both quotes are seemingly based on what he has heard from Soviet observers.



"There is Krutov. Most valuable player in the Soviet Union last year. Most think now he is probably their best forward, he's gone by Makarov. And the thing they like to talk about Krutov, the thing they keep mentioning is not only is he a great offensive player with great speed, great balance and all of those things, but he is also a terrific defensive player, great backchecker, plays a total game."



"The most valuable player in the Soviet Union last year. 89 writers voted on this award last year 85 of them said Krutov was the most valuable player in the Soviet Union. They say that the difference between Krutov who plays one wing and the left-winger* Makarov is that Krutov handles the defensive side of the game a little better than Makarov."

*Mix up regarding which side they played.

Based on this it seems like Krutovs defensive game was the main reason why the Soviet observers believed that Krutov at that time had managed to overtake Makarov as the top forward of the Soviet Union. Considering that Makarov was a pretty accomplished defensive player himself during his prime as evident by this quote from Victor Kuzkin this suggests that Krutov was very good defensively at his peak.



While penalty killing only is one part of the defensive side of the game it is also worth noting that both Krutov and Martinec belongs near to the top of the list of the greatest penalty killing forwards from the Eastern Bloc. I don't think that any of them should be top 2 on that list (those two spots belongs to Makarov and Holik in my opinion) but I would say that both are in the conversation for the 3rd spot (along with other players like V.Golikov, V. Zhluktov, A. Almetov, K. Loktev and V. Starshinov)

Very good post. I can see arguments for Martinec over Krutov, but even then Martinec won't be far ahead. There are arguments for Krutov over Martinec and, more correct to me, would be list them at the same level approximately (probably, I'd rate Martinec higher, but, as I said, not by far).
Their stats are:
Domestic:
points:
1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 10
2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 8
goals:
1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 6, 7, 7, 8
1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 7, 8
MVP:
1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 4, 6
1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5
OG/WC:
points:
1, 2, 8
1, 2, 2, 7, 9
goals:
1, 3, 10
1, 1, 3, 5, 6

Try to guess who is who

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Krutov is complicated because he was such a useless turd in the NHL that it somewhat taints what he did before he came over. But how much?

 

[VMBM]

Thanks for posting that great info on Martinec @Theokritos!



It definitely appears you're correct about Martinec's defense after seeing the quotes that were posted, and I'm open to rating Krutov's offense as higher, but how much higher? Should it be as a high as Martinec? The HOH and ATD community have consistently ranked Martinec over Krutov by a decent amount (Top Wingers Project, Top Non-NHL Euros Project, and ATD draft position), so if Krutov's offense gets bumped up am I underrating Martinec's offense as well? Or is Martinec's defense that much better where they're about even offensively, and the defensive ability is what makes the difference?...that doesn't seem right to me. Or is there something else like big game/clutch/playoff type performances where Martinec creates the gap?

I am a big Martinec fan and all, but I have to say that at his peak (approx. 1986-88), Krutov was a greater (overall) player; certainly as a goal-scorer, and his playmaking was pretty much on the same level imo. As far as defensive play goes, I trust Batis' words that they were about the same (at their peak). Krutov had more of a physical presence of course too.

It's just that Krutov was done as a top player at 29, whereas Martinec had a few good/decent years in his late 20s/early 30s. And Martinec did not go and embarrass himself in the NHL (not sure whether he would have, but I doubt he would have "set the NHL on fire" in his 30s).

 

[VMBM]

I'd like to post some high praise on Krutov by a few legendary Soviet coaches (Tikhonov, Yurzinov, Tarasov). This excerpt is taken from Viktor Tikhonov's book that he wrote or rather compiled in the late 1980s. Along with the very complimentary words, there's already a mention of Krutov's problems too (which really manifested only later on) by Tikhonov.

"Sometime in the summer of 1983 when Yurzinov and I summed the results of the past season, he noted: 'If we count all the goals that were scored in international tournaments, nobody is on the same level with Krutov... Makarov has 9 goals, the others 6-7 at best, and Volodja has 25!'
Krutov is an exceptionally talented hockey player, but unfortunately he has weaknesses too. He hasn't always led an athletic lifestyle, but talented he is...
When I was recently talking with Anatoli Tarasov about matters concerning hockey players, he stated the following: 'Krutov is the best forward we have ever had. His dekes are unpredictable and amazingly rational. He does everything as if openly, simply, without any kind of cunning. Still he is impossible to stop. I think this is partly so because he is really brave and determined. Krutov is a few years ahead of everybody else...' This came from the expert who nurtured Anatoli Firsov and Valeri Kharlamov."

As for Tarasov's huge (and with hindsight exaggerating) praise, it could be noted that Tarasov's love for Krutov seemed to have started early; for example, at the 1982 World Championship, Tarasov chose Krutov to his own all-star team (other forwards: Makarov and Gretzky), even though he didn't even make it to the media's 1st & 2nd All-Star Teams and his stats weren't that great (4+3 in 10 games) plus e.g. a few Finnish journalists criticized his play in their tournament recap.

 

[Theokritos]

This excerpt is taken from Viktor Tikhonov's book that he wrote or rather compiled in the late 1980s.

Thanks a lot for providing this.

The lifestyle quote is particularly interesting when you look back at the debates we've had here and on HOH on Krutov's decline tailspin in 1989-1990.

Krutov is an exceptionally talented hockey player, but unfortunately he has weaknesses too. He hasn't always led an athletic lifestyle...

Now factor in that Krutov got his release from CSKA in 1989 and wasn't subject to Tikhonov's offseason training regime for the first time in his career. Sports Illustrated said he spent a "summer of sloth" in Moscow, a prime example of what a Soviet insider described as follows:

Alexander Barinev, a former Soviet player who worked as a coach in Germany in the 1980s and 1990s, complained about Soviet players having trouble adapting to the European culture because they were "like soldiers": "Without pressure and clear orders, they don't know what to do."

On top of it, Krutov had "a drinking problem", as a quote by Robert Cherenkov (vice president of the Soviet hockey federation) shows. Without the military regime, nothing was there to keep this life-long soldier in check now.

Then he gets a call from Igor Larionov:

[Krutov is] eying a future somewhere in Europe. Until Larionov - who wants a linemate by his side to ease transition to the NHL - persuades him to give the NHL a try after his preferred option (Sergey Makarov to Vancouver) has come to nought.

Krutov comes to Canada, but his family initially can't come with him. He doesn't speak the language. He's homesick. He's out of shape. The way hockey is being played is unfamiliar. The intensity of the games is higher and there are more difficult games than in the Soviet league. Krutov is supposed to adapt while being in the worst physical condition of his career and struggling with his motivation. The whole endeavor wasn't his own idea in the first place. Do it for your country, he had been told. The NHL has changed, it's become a lot more like European hockey, Larionov had said. Krutov doesn't enjoy the experience at all, he doesn't find anything to his liking, except... except there is booze in North America too. And more and better food than in Moscow.

I think this scenario explains sufficiently how Krutov could have turned from a world class player into a sub-NHL-level player within a few months, without the need to assume he used PEDs back in the Soviet Union.

 

[Batis]

I'd like to post some high praise on Krutov by a few legendary Soviet coaches (Tikhonov, Yurzinov, Tarasov). This excerpt is taken from Viktor Tikhonov's book that he wrote or rather compiled in the late 1980s. Along with the very complimentary words, there's already a mention of Krutov's problems too (which really manifested only later on) by Tikhonov.

"Sometime in the summer of 1983 when Yurzinov and I summed the results of the past season, he noted: 'If we count all the goals that were scored in international tournaments, nobody is on the same level with Krutov... Makarov has 9 goals, the others 6-7 at best, and Volodja has 25!'
Krutov is an exceptionally talented hockey player, but unfortunately he has weaknesses too. He hasn't always led an athletic lifestyle, but talented he is...
When I was recently talking with Anatoli Tarasov about matters concerning hockey players, he stated the following: 'Krutov is the best forward we have ever had. His dekes are unpredictable and amazingly rational. He does everything as if openly, simply, without any kind of cunning. Still he is impossible to stop. I think this is partly so because he is really brave and determined. Krutov is a few years ahead of everybody else...' This came from the expert who nurtured Anatoli Firsov and Valeri Kharlamov."

As for Tarasov's huge (and with hindsight exaggerating) praise, it could be noted that Tarasov's love for Krutov seemed to have started early; for example, at the 1982 World Championship, Tarasov chose Krutov to his own all-star team (other forwards: Makarov and Gretzky), even though he didn't even make it to the media's 1st & 2nd All-Star Teams and his stats weren't that great (4+3 in 10 games) plus e.g. a few Finnish journalists criticized his play in their tournament recap.

Thank you for posting this. Very high praise indeed. Regarding the bolded part I question that those numbers are correct though. If we look at the top 3 in goalscoring among Soviets at major and minor international tournaments during the 82/83 season this is what we get.

Major and Minor International Tournaments 1982/83 (WHC, Izvestia Trophy, Rude Pravo Cup)
1. Vladimir Krutov 18 gp, 17 g
2. Sergey Makarov 12 gp, 13 g
3. Vyacheslav Bykov 20 gp, 8 g

If we also include the 82/83 Super Series where the Soviet National Team played this time around we end up with this.
1. Vladimir Krutov 24 gp, 22 g
2. Sergey Makarov 12 gp, 13 g
3. Igor Larionov 25 gp, 10 g

Great goalscoring season from Krutov on the international stage no doubt about it but not quite as impressive as that part of the quote makes it seem.

 

[Batis]

Thanks a lot for providing this.

The lifestyle quote is particularly interesting when you look back at the debates we've had here and on HOH on Krutov's decline tailspin in 1989-1990.



Now factor in that Krutov got his release from CSKA in 1989 and wasn't subject to Tikhonov's offseason training regime for the first time in his career. Sports Illustrated said he spent a "summer of sloth" in Moscow, a prime example of what a Soviet insider described as follows:



On top of it, Krutov had "a drinking problem", as a quote by Robert Cherenkov (vice president of the Soviet hockey federation) shows. Without the military regime, nothing was there to keep this life-long soldier in check now.

Then he gets a call from Igor Larionov:



Krutov comes to Canada, but his family initially can't come with him. He doesn't speak the language. He's homesick. He's out of shape. The way hockey is being played is unfamiliar. The intensity of the games is higher and there are more difficult games than in the Soviet league. Krutov is supposed to adapt while being in the worst physical condition of his career and struggling with his motivation. The whole endeavor wasn't his own idea in the first place. Do it for your country, he had been told. The NHL has changed, it's become a lot more like European hockey, Larionov had said. Krutov doesn't enjoy the experience at all, he doesn't find anyting to his liking, except... except there is booze in North America too. And more and better food than in Moscow.

I think this scenario explains sufficiently how Krutov could have turned from a world class player into a sub-NHL-level player within a few months, without the need to assume he used PEDs back in the Soviet Union.

Add to all of this that according to Krutov himself there was an economic disagreement between him and the Vancouver Canucks organization and that the call from Larionov was not the only way he was "pressured" to join the NHL. Here is what Krutov told swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter in 1992 regarding his time in North America.

- I never got the chance to succeed. The Vancouver management and I got in a fight about in which bank my money should be placed.

But he does not deny that the transition to another country was difficult.

- I got a key, a plastic card for the bankaccount and an empty appartment. After that I was on my own.

Of course problems then appeared for someone who was used to living in barracks 10 months of the year with the club management telling him what to do every hour.

And he really rather wanted to play in Europe but for propaganda and economic reasons he was forced to the NHL.

- It was the ministry of sports that forced me to North America. They thought that I was to good to remain in Europe.

-They wanted us the leading players on the national team to show our class in the NHL. And they also got more money for us.

 

[Theokritos]

- It was the ministry of sports that forced me to North America. They thought that I was to good to remain in Europe.

-They wanted us the leading players on the national team to show our class in the NHL. And they also got more money for us."

That's what I was alleging to with the "do it for your country" line, but I didn't have the specifics at hand. Thanks for providing the details.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This is a real tough one.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Good series BB! You built a strong team

 

[BenchBrawl]

Good series BB! You built a strong team

Thanks, you too.Good luck in the Finals.

 

[VanIslander]

Good job!