2018 Franchise Draft semi-final series: Portland Buckaroos vs. Brooklyn Americans

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,133
6,428



Billy Smith
Rogie Vachon


vs


Brooklyn_Americans.png


coach Joel Quenneville

Sweeney Schriner - Mark Messier (C) - Jaromir Jagr
Anatoli Firsov - Phil Esposito - Bryan Hextall, Sr
Jiri Holik - Dave Keon - Daniel Alfredsson (A)
Zach Parise - Nicklas Backstrom - David Backes

Red Kelly - Chris Chelios (A)
Moose Johnson - Mark Howe
Marc-Eduouard Vlasic - Phil Housley

Ken Dryden

Roberto Luongo

 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,133
6,428
Portland

PP1: Doug Bentley - Wayne Gretzky - Jarome Iginla - King Clancy - Bernie Geoffrion
PP2: Sid Abel - Syl Apps - Andy Bathgate - Sprague Cleghorn - Dit Clapper

PK1: Ryan Kesler - Brian Propp - Derian Hatcher - Dit Clapper
PK2: Vladimir Petrov - Doug Bentley - Frantisek Pospisil - Sprague Cleghorn


Brooklyn

PP1: Mark Messier - Phil Esposito - Jaromir Jagr - Red Kelly - Phil Housley
PP2: Sweeney Schriner - Nicklas Backstrom - Bryan Hextall Sr - Chris Chelios - Mark Howe

PK1: Dave Keon - Jiri Holik - Moose Johnson - Chris Chelios
PK2: Mark Messier - Anatoli Firsov - Mark Howe - Red Kelly
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
Okay, another strong opponent. Time to focus on two things I don't like as much about Portland, because that's what we do in the playoffs.

Not going to talk much about goaltending, since I think we all have an idea where Dryden and Smith stand.

1. A really soft 1st line. Basically, Wayne Gretzky and Bernie Geoffrion are two players who had their success playing with at least one tougher player on their line. A guy who could protect them and battle in corners. I realize protection isn't as important in the current NHL, but still, who on the line is going to score the dirty goals against NJ's top 6? Chelios - arguably the best net front defenseman ever. Red Kelly wasn't ill tempered, but he was a championship boxer who was sometimes used up front on the Red Wings' power play to add muscle (see legends of hockey among other sources). Likewise, Mark Howe didn't have his dad's temperament, but he was big and strong. Moose Johnson was also known for his size.

Doug Bentley is a good option for a two-way presence for a scoring line, but he was a very small player. Wikipedia: "Doug was a small, slender player, weighing only 145 lbs at the peak of his career,[3] but he was an exceptionally fast skater and his father taught him to use his speed to avoid larger opponents. ." During the HOH top wingers project, it was speculated that Doug's small size hurt him at winning puck battles and may have been a factor in why his teams always had such poor defensive results, despite Doug's reputation as a diligent back checker. Regardless, I don't see him being the guy going to score the tough goals in front of the net.

2. Is Tommy Gorman the right fit for a team built around dynamic offensive duos in Gretzky-Geoffrion and Apps-Bathgate? I really don't want to relitigate the "Gorman coaching Gretzky" thing from the ATD. And Apps thrived under an even more defensive minded coach in Hap Day. Still, that's a lot of basically offense-only guys for Gorman, IMO.

For what it's worth, Dave Keon felt that Andy Bathgate struggled with Punch Imlach's defensive system:
The four Stanley Cup championships in the 60’s came with a downside, as far as Keon is concerned. 1964 will be forever remembered by Leafs fans for Bobby Baun’s overtime goal, scored on a broken ankle, against Detroit – however the man who wore #14 sees the year as a turning point for the organization. “I believe the trade of Bob Nevin and Dick Duff for Andy Bathgate was the start of the slide,” offered Keon. “If they had stayed, it would not have taken us 14 games to win the Cup. It was hard for Bathgate to play within our system.”
NEWS--DAVE KEON

I don't think Gorman was as defense-obsessed as Punch Imlach by any means, but he is a coach best known for his defensive systems in both Ottawa and Chicago.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
One more advantage Brooklyn has: Faceoffs

See https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/player-intangibles-resource.680440/ for coaching polls

Mark Messier: Voted by 1 NHL coach as the best faceoff man in the entire NHL in 1993; Voted by 2 coaches as the best faceoff man in the entire NHL in 1994. Regularly took important draws instead of Wayne Gretzky when the two played together in Edmonton.

Phil Esposito: Finished 3rd in a 1974 coach's poll for "best on faceoffs" in the league. Dominated the 1972 Soviets (including Petrov) at the faceoff circle.

Dave Keon: Hard to tell as the coach's polls didn't exist in the 1960s. He was tied for 1st for "best checker" in 1971 (FWIW, Derek Sanderson and Stan Mikita were the only guys with multiple votes for best faceoffs in that poll). Also, his NHL 100 profile raves about his faceoff ability, so I assume he was pretty good: Dave Keon: 100 Greatest NHL Players

Nicklas Backstrom: career 50.6% at faceoffs. Not great, not terrible. Nicklas Backstrom Stats and News

With Keon to take defensive draws, Esposito to take offensive draws, and Messier to take both, I think Brooklyn will win more than our fair share of faceoffs.

_______________________

Gretzky was known to be mediocre at faceoffs. No idea about Apps - teammate Ted Kennedy was legendary on faceoffs, nothing much written about Apps that I can see.

NHL.com doesn't total Forsberg's career faceoff percentage, but in the majority of seasons he is under 50%: Peter Forsberg Stats and News. That could be a problem because he is the only thing Portland has resembling a defensive center.

Petrov? I know that no Soviet forward could deal with Esposito in the faceoff circle in 1972, at least, though I don't recall how often these two were head to head. Plus, Petrov was pretty young then.
 

Batis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2014
1,093
1,030
Merida, Mexico
One more advantage Brooklyn has: Faceoffs

See https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/player-intangibles-resource.680440/ for coaching polls

Mark Messier: Voted by 1 NHL coach as the best faceoff man in the entire NHL in 1993; Voted by 2 coaches as the best faceoff man in the entire NHL in 1994. Regularly took important draws instead of Wayne Gretzky when the two played together in Edmonton.

Phil Esposito: Finished 3rd in a 1974 coach's poll for "best on faceoffs" in the league. Dominated the 1972 Soviets (including Petrov) at the faceoff circle.

Dave Keon: Hard to tell as the coach's polls didn't exist in the 1960s. He was tied for 1st for "best checker" in 1971 (FWIW, Derek Sanderson and Stan Mikita were the only guys with multiple votes for best faceoffs in that poll). Also, his NHL 100 profile raves about his faceoff ability, so I assume he was pretty good: Dave Keon: 100 Greatest NHL Players

Nicklas Backstrom: career 50.6% at faceoffs. Not great, not terrible. Nicklas Backstrom Stats and News

With Keon to take defensive draws, Esposito to take offensive draws, and Messier to take both, I think Brooklyn will win more than our fair share of faceoffs.

_______________________

Gretzky was known to be mediocre at faceoffs. No idea about Apps - teammate Ted Kennedy was legendary on faceoffs, nothing much written about Apps that I can see.

NHL.com doesn't total Forsberg's career faceoff percentage, but in the majority of seasons he is under 50%: Peter Forsberg Stats and News. That could be a problem because he is the only thing Portland has resembling a defensive center.

Petrov? I know that no Soviet forward could deal with Esposito in the faceoff circle in 1972, at least, though I don't recall how often these two were head to head. Plus, Petrov was pretty young then.

I definitely agree that Brooklyn seems to have a clear advantage when it comes to faceoffs. Another point in their favour is that they also have a rather good backup faceoff man on the second line in Anatoly Firsov who started his career at the center position before Tarasov moved him to the wing. Even during his prime years at the wing position Firsov continued taking his fair share of faceoffs (and not only when Polupanov was thrown out of the circle) and in 71/72 he was moved back to the center position. On the ATD-level Firsov is probably a below average faceoff man but on the other hand he is probably among the stronger wingers when it comes to faceoffs. So for the times when Esposito is thrown out of the circle it will be a positive to have Firsov on the ice.
 
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