OT: 2018 Football Thread: Camp is (almost) here!!!!!

[Block More Shots]

I'm a Jets fan...is it crazy of me to not be interested in Allen, Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield? None of these guys scream franchise QB to me. I'd MUCH rather take Barkley if he's there. The guy is a stud...build the offense around him...see where it takes us. I know we want "the guy" at QB, but I don't know if he's there in this draft class.

I'm a big fan of "sure things" if you're drafting this high...I think Barkley is as much of a guarantee that you could have. I know we added Crowell and Rawls to the backfield, but those guys can't touch Barkley.

 

[nyr2k2]

You're not crazy. But still, setting aside the anomaly that was Jacksonville, if you want to be a top team you NEED a franchise quarterback. We haven't had one for decades and not coincidentally we've largely been horrible. There are very, very, very few "sure thing" QB's and these guys aren't them, but they still have franchise potential. Picking at number 3 you gotta go for one. It's the best chance we've had for a long time to really get the franchise back on track.

 

[Carnival Barker]

Allen's tools are certainly appealing, but I have little to no faith in the Jets organization to get him to come close to his ceiling (though I do like Bates.) That's why I really hope Cleveland takes him #1, just to take that option away from Maccagnan. Rosen is definitely my favorite QB in the class, but really I'd be ok with any of the other three.

 

[Fvital92]

I'm a Jets fan...is it crazy of me to not be interested in Allen, Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield? None of these guys scream franchise QB to me. I'd MUCH rather take Barkley if he's there. The guy is a stud...build the offense around him...see where it takes us. I know we want "the guy" at QB, but I don't know if he's there in this draft class.

I'm a big fan of "sure things" if you're drafting this high...I think Barkley is as much of a guarantee that you could have. I know we added Crowell and Rawls to the backfield, but those guys can't touch Barkley.

Yes. if I am the Jets I would draft high a QB every single year until I found a franchise QB. You simply can't win without a QB in this league.

 

[Fvital92]

Chris Canty said that, from his source inside the organization, the Giants like one QB in this class and would probably draft him if he was there at number 2.

 

[SA16]

I wouldn't even take Barkley (or any RB) ever in the first round.

 

[nyr2k2]

I wouldn't even take Barkley (or any RB) ever in the first round.

If you knew you were getting Gurley or Elliott in the first round, would you bypass that pick in the hopes that you found Kamara or Hunt in the third? I wouldn't. If the Jets had a QB I would absolutely love them to take Barkley. RBs probably have a greater ability to affect a game than any player other than the QB. I know they have a shorter shelf life, but if you have an already solid team and someone like Barkley available, I'd take them every day. Yeah, maybe you hit a home run with a later RB, but that's a gamble.

 

[SA16]

If you knew you were getting Gurley or Elliott in the first round, would you bypass that pick in the hopes that you found Kamara or Hunt in the third? I wouldn't. If the Jets had a QB I would absolutely love them to take Barkley. RBs probably have a greater ability to affect a game than any player other than the QB. I know they have a shorter shelf life, but if you have an already solid team and someone like Barkley available, I'd take them every day. Yeah, maybe you hit a home run with a later RB, but that's a gamble.

But how do you know? There's a ton of good RBs that go late. Gurley was on his way to being considered a bust before this season. Trent Richardson a huge bust. Fournette just put up 3.9 ypc in his rookie year. Ezekiel Elliott did not exactly have a particularly good season this year. Melvin Gordon (15th ovr in the Gurley draft) is among the least efficient backs in the league but has good raw totals due to huge usage. Doug Martin/David Wilson (other 2012 first rounders after Richardson) both weren't any good. Mark Ingram (28th ovr 2011) is good but has never got full time usage. 2010 1st round RB (Spiller/Matthews/Best) were all bad. 2009 (Knowshon Moreno 12th, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells) were not particularly good and had no longevity. 2008 had McFadden Stewart Felix Jones Mendenhall Chris Johnson all who had no longevity other than Stewart who is meh and was never a true full timer and CJ had a few great years and that was it.

The history of the first round RB is not particularly good at all.

IF I knew he would be Leveon Bell yea, I'd take him but based on the history that's not particularly likely. More likely he has a few good years and that's that.

 

[nyr2k2]

Well that's where scouting comes into play, I guess. RBs definitely bust and do have a short life in the league, no disputing that. But if you're confident the guy sitting there is a 10-year stud-type RB, I think you gotta pull the trigger. Like if Barkley somehow fell to 20, which obviously won't happen, there's no way I pass him up just because a lot of guys before him failed.

 

[Blueshirts777]

But how do you know? There's a ton of good RBs that go late. Gurley was on his way to being considered a bust before this season. Trent Richardson a huge bust. Fournette just put up 3.9 ypc in his rookie year. Ezekiel Elliott did not exactly have a particularly good season this year. Melvin Gordon (15th ovr in the Gurley draft) is among the least efficient backs in the league but has good raw totals due to huge usage. Doug Martin/David Wilson (other 2012 first rounders after Richardson) both weren't any good. Mark Ingram (28th ovr 2011) is good but has never got full time usage. 2010 1st round RB (Spiller/Matthews/Best) were all bad. 2009 (Knowshon Moreno 12th, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells) were not particularly good and had no longevity. 2008 had McFadden Stewart Felix Jones Mendenhall Chris Johnson all who had no longevity other than Stewart who is meh and was never a true full timer and CJ had a few great years and that was it.

The history of the first round RB is not particularly good at all.

IF I knew he would be Leveon Bell yea, I'd take him but based on the history that's not particularly likely. More likely he has a few good years and that's that.

You can literally say this about any position and even find flaws in guys just like you're doing with rb's. Should we go back to Qb's in 2014, 13 an 12? Plus since 2011, the only really BAD rb drafted in the 1st round was Trent Richardson. David Wilson was on track to be something special but we all know about his neck.

 

[SA16]

You can literally say this about any position and even find flaws in guys just like you're doing with rb's. Should we go back to Qb's in 2014, 13 an 12? Plus since 2011, the only really BAD rb drafted in the 1st round was Trent Richardson. David Wilson was on track to be something special but we all know about his neck.

I just went through every single RB that was drafted in the first round and there's literally zero of them that were good with any sort of longevity over the last ten years. The last good one that lasted a long time was Adrian Peterson in 2007 (and Marshawn Lynch that year who wasn't even particularly good until he left Buffalo). Peterson's Minnesota teams were never even good until they got Favre. The best career has been Mark Ingram who, like I said, has never even been given a full workload. Chris Johnson had a good run for five seasons then fell off a cliff.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

"Gurley was on his way to being considered a bust before this season"

By who? His rookie year was amazing, his second year was a down year, and now his third year was amazing. Who in the world said he was a bust?

 

[Ghost of jas]

I just went through every single RB that was drafted in the first round and there's literally zero of them that were good with any sort of longevity over the last ten years. The last good one that lasted a long time was Adrian Peterson in 2007 (and Marshawn Lynch that year who wasn't even particularly good until he left Buffalo). Peterson's Minnesota teams were never even good until they got Favre. The best career has been Mark Ingram who, like I said, has never even been given a full workload. Chris Johnson had a good run for five seasons then fell off a cliff.

The Giants have two choices...1) take the QB they see as the successor to Eli, or 2) if they don't see that player available, trade the pick. Taking Barkley is the worst move and contains the least value. If you don't see a franchise QB, then you use a 2nd OA pick on a premier pass-rusher or a franchise LT that anchors your Oline for a decade.

 

[LionsHeart]

I think the later round picks are going to be really important for the Giants too. They've swung and missed a lot over the last few years. They don't necessarily need to get superstars, but at least good organizational depth.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Man, as a Browns fan, this draft has me terrified. I really worry about Allen – the raw tools are great, but is it really that easy to change mechanics and turn an inaccurate passer who stares his guys down into a franchise QB? Management's got to go with their guy, but on the surface, Darnold really seems like the safer pick to me. Dorsey's got a good track record and his job rides on getting that first pick correct, so I'm crossing my fingers that whatever he does, it'll be the right move.

As for the #4OA, I'm torn. There are so many possible scenarios – many of which, interestingly, depend on what the Giants do at #2OA.

Do you stick and take the BPA? And if you do, is that player Barkley? He's amazing, but RBs do tend to have a short shelf-life and the thought of Chubb and Garrett playing as bookend pass rushers (with Ogbah as a backup!) makes me drool. Then, there's also the possibility that if there's a run on QBs at the top of the 1st round you could even trade back, garner more picks and still get a Barkley/Chubb (or Fitzpatrick or Ward, etc., etc.).

This draft has the potential to finally set this franchise up for success for a long time – or could be the crowning disaster for a team that's already been a laughingstock for 20 years...

 

[sbjnyc]

The 1st round of the 2007 draft included Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Calvin Johnson, Darrelle Revis, Joe Thomas, Marshawn Lynch and Adrian Peterson. If you had to do it all over again, what should be the draft order?

Hint: None of the QBs should be included.

 

[Blueshirts777]

I just went through every single RB that was drafted in the first round and there's literally zero of them that were good with any sort of longevity over the last ten years. The last good one that lasted a long time was Adrian Peterson in 2007 (and Marshawn Lynch that year who wasn't even particularly good until he left Buffalo). Peterson's Minnesota teams were never even good until they got Favre. The best career has been Mark Ingram who, like I said, has never even been given a full workload. Chris Johnson had a good run for five seasons then fell off a cliff.

Mark Ingram not getting a full workload is 100% on the coach, not the player. Elliot and Gurley were in MVP discussions for the past two years. By the standards you are throwing out, you shouldn't draft a QB in the first round either because the last good one was Aaron Rodgers in 2005

 

[SA16]

I would never draft a kicker, punter, or running back in the first round. Doesn't matter how good he is. The position isn't important and the player has a very short career. I do not want to spend a 1st round pick on a player who will possibly be good for four years and then lose it.

If I thought the best player available at my pick was a RB I would trade the pick.

Todd Gurley went from being in the bust conversation to being in the MVP conversation after two years. What changed? The year he was bad they had terrible coaching and awful QB play. The year he was in the MVP discussion that got a new innovative coach and great QB play.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sounds like if Darnold is there at 2, the Giants will take him.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Sounds like if Darnold is there at 2, the Giants will take him.

Saw this too. Wonder if it is a smokescreen? Or just so obvious (and they know he is likely going #1) to not be an issue? Tough to tell with the new regime.

Bit disappointed that it sounds like they are sour on Rosen. Would hate to pass on a talented player for "character concerns" unless there is really something to it (think former Pats TE) but gotta trust the org to do appropriate due diligence.

 

[NYRPat21]

Considering how the past couple of seasons everything leaked about who Reese loved, (Conklin, Floyd in 2016, Jarrad Davis and Charles Harris in 2017) and teams traded up to grab those guys, I’m taking every report with a grain of salt. I read that Gettleman is trying to shut down the leaks this season so I don’t think any of the insiders have anything super concrete. I don’t think we’ll know what he’s gonna do until Goodell goes up there to announce the pick/or trade.

 

[duhmetreE]

NYJ taking Mayfield at #3... and it's grown on me... I actually love it

 

[sbjnyc]

I refuse to believe that the Jets moved up 3 spots to draft mayfield.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Passing on Rosen for Mayfield would be bold as f***.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Considering how the past couple of seasons everything leaked about who Reese loved, (Conklin, Floyd in 2016, Jarrad Davis and Charles Harris in 2017) and teams traded up to grab those guys, I’m taking every report with a grain of salt. I read that Gettleman is trying to shut down the leaks this season so I don’t think any of the insiders have anything super concrete. I don’t think we’ll know what he’s gonna do until Goodell goes up there to announce the pick/or trade.

Agreed.