2018 CL Semifinals

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
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There really isn't an Arsenal fan in this thread talking trash right?

I'm not just seeing things am I?

get back to me when Arsenal can win an away match this season.
 

The Abusement Park

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Jan 18, 2016
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So Barça going out to Roma, on the away goals rule, was big news but Liverpool going through while letting in six goals must be a fluke.

Curious some of the commentary on the refs. At least @Live in the Now admits bad calls went against the opponent, though the league reference is irrelevant. Anyway, it's just funny that someone can jump to Madrid's defense all the time when it comes to the refs (not a supporter thought! LOL) and also completely ignore the calls they get as well. I suppose it's all just "fake news".

Speaking of the refs, saw this graphic yesterday. Curious the idea that there wasn't a good view of the play.

cakir-pito-unas-manos-claras-marcelo-dentro-del-area-1525253173225.jpg


I'll be lucky if I catch up on the week's action, but I'll definitely be watching the Final. I think.

Definitely a missed call. But it looks like he's outside of the box from that angle, so while they would get a free kick, I don't think that missed call is THAT big a game changer.
 

hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
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North Tonawanda, NY
The Milner one is debatable because he doesn't move towards the ball, but based on the distance the ball traveled and that his arm was away from his body, and the fact that is stopped a sure goal, it's given more often than not. The fact that Milner wasn't sent off is the referees concession in that play.

The TAA play isn't debatable. He makes himself bigger with his arms and stops a goal, that's a textbook penalty and red card.

The Karius play should have been a penalty, but not a red card. It was an attempt at ball and there was coverage to the side of him so it wasn't a last man type situation. Yellow and pen is the proper call there if the offside flag wasn't raised.

The Mane claim is so incredibly weak. He barely gets touched on the back and flops to the ground. That call is basically never given. He doesn't shove him, he raises his hands and places them on his back.

Dzeko is likely inches offside on his goal, although I haven't seen a solid replay.

Lovren was unfortunate to get a yellow, but his arm being up makes the call almost a given, even if the player only went down because he slipped.

Florenzi should have absolutely seen a red for his tackle. I think that actually goes back to the first half when he got in Mane's face after Mane tried a back heel in the box. I assume he was upset because he thought Mane was showboating or some other stupid reason.

van Dijk committed a textbook foul on Liverpool's second goal, he's not jumping for the ball, he's nudging into the defender to push him off balance and it leads directly to a chance/goal. It's similar to the call in the first half where Dzeko had his hands on (I think) Lovren's back during a ball into the box and put him off balance. When those happen on headers, they're called 98% of the time.

On the whole, the calls went Liverpool's way in this tie, and the complexion of it would have been very different if they didn't. I'm not saying Liverpool fans should be sorry for that, I have no issues with LITN's approach. Liverpool have been screwed hard at times this season and it feels good to get the good side of that sometimes. The approach I think is a joke is the one taken by Curt where he seems to deny that there was any advantage at all and continually deflect.

Your team got the benefit in this match, admit it and move on. It doesn't mean they're a fraud team, or they didn't deserve to go through, it's just acknowledging what happened.
 
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maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
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There really isn't an Arsenal fan in this thread talking trash right?

I'm not just seeing things am I?

get back to me when Arsenal can win an away match this season.

edo only ever stops by to be belligerent though
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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The Milner one is debatable because he doesn't move towards the ball, but based on the distance the ball traveled and that his arm was away from his body, and the fact that is stopped a sure goal, it's given more often than not. The fact that Milner wasn't sent off is the referees concession in that play.

That ball was hit right at Milner and it happened very quickly, and if Milner tried to get his arm out of the way it still would have hit it. It was a very textbook case of ball to hand which shouldn't have been called. Not to mention Karius was right in the path of the shot so I don't see how that would have been anything but a save unless Karius fluffed it.

The TAA play isn't debatable. He makes himself bigger with his arms and stops a goal, that's a textbook penalty and red card.

Again, I don't agree with this at all. TAA's arms were up because he was jumping toward the ball, and as soon as he isn't getting it he starts pulling his arms in to himself and the ball is blasted right into his hand. He had no way of getting out of the way of that, and on top of which the ball was going over the net anyway (based on all the angles I've seen of the replay). It's not a textbook penalty or a red card:

“Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement”

The distance was next to 0, the ball was hit directly at his hand as he was pulling it down and toward himself. The ball was going over the net.

The Karius play should have been a penalty, but not a red card. It was an attempt at ball and there was coverage to the side of him so it wasn't a last man type situation. Yellow and pen is the proper call there if the offside flag wasn't raised.

Agreed, it should have been a penalty and a yellow if the offside flag was not raised.

The Mane claim is so incredibly weak. He barely gets touched on the back and flops to the ground. That call is basically never given. He doesn't shove him, he raises his hands and places them on his back.

I don't agree really that it was weak. You can see that he actually pushes him with both hands if you watch the replay, just as Mane goes to jump while he's running. I do agree it's not called nearly enough but it was absolutely a push and a foul.

Dzeko is likely inches offside on his goal, although I haven't seen a solid replay.

Looked onside to me on the replay they showed live.

Lovren was unfortunate to get a yellow, but his arm being up makes the call almost a given, even if the player only went down because he slipped.

So his arm being up makes the call almost a given even though the player fell because he slipped (one hand, btw) but Mane's call is never given despite it being two hands and a push? Interesting.

Florenzi should have absolutely seen a red for his tackle. I think that actually goes back to the first half when he got in Mane's face after Mane tried a back heel in the box. I assume he was upset because he thought Mane was showboating or some other stupid reason.

Agreed, didn't understand the reaction to Mane's backheel in the first place. Florenzi was being an idiot.

van Dijk committed a textbook foul on Liverpool's second goal, he's not jumping for the ball, he's nudging into the defender to push him off balance and it leads directly to a chance/goal. It's similar to the call in the first half where Dzeko had his hands on (I think) Lovren's back during a ball into the box and put him off balance. When those happen on headers, they're called 98% of the time.

I don't agree in either case. I didn't think it should have been a foul against Lovren and I don't think it was a foul with van Dijk. He's allowed to challenge for the ball and he jumped for it, and the defender jumped toward him as well. That wasn't a foul in either case, IMO. I was very confused when they gave that foul in favor of Lovren tbh.

On the whole, the calls went Liverpool's way in this tie, and the complexion of it would have been very different if they didn't. I'm not saying Liverpool fans should be sorry for that, I have no issues with LITN's approach. Liverpool have been screwed hard at times this season and it feels good to get the good side of that sometimes. The approach I think is a joke is the one taken by Curt where he seems to deny that there was any advantage at all and continually deflect.

Sure. What about when Wijnaldum was taken out trying to play a 1-2 with Firmino: (time is 3:16)? Or the multiple times that Salah was absolutely mugged with no call (as he has been all season, it's pretty ridiculous)? There's a lot more context to go with some of the missed calls, and there were missed calls on both sides all over the pitch all game over both ties. People only focus on the ones that they want to see.
 

KJS14

Registered User
Jun 13, 2013
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878
TAA moved his left hand back toward his body, and clearly leaves his right hand out making himself bigger. If you can't see that as a clear handball, I don't know what else to tell you.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
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The Milner one is debatable because he doesn't move towards the ball, but based on the distance the ball traveled and that his arm was away from his body, and the fact that is stopped a sure goal, it's given more often than not.

Right.

Your team got the benefit in this match, admit it and move on. It doesn't mean they're a fraud team, or they didn't deserve to go through, it's just acknowledging what happened.

Exactly. Even Klopp said after the game that his team was lucky. I think Liverpool are a better side than Roma (and by a larger margin than the 7-6 aggregate indicates), I've rooted for them, I'm glad they advance, but they definitely lucked out in this particular game. It happens. The other finalist didn't advance without luck either. Now on to the final.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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TAA moved his left hand back toward his body, and clearly leaves his right hand out making himself bigger. If you can't see that as a clear handball, I don't know what else to tell you.
If you don't see him pulling his right arm into his body as he turns I don't know what you've been watching. It was originally fully extended and out away from his body. I've seen refs give that as a penalty, just like the Milner one, among others, and I've seen it not given, but by the letter of the rule that is absolutely not a handball and certainly not a 'textbook penalty and red card'.

It's the same thing where people think that shoulder to shoulder means it's a fair play, or that any contact that isn't shoulder to shoulder is a foul (such as putting hands on back, etc.). The problem is with the inconsistencies in the reffing because the rules are not clear and leave too much open to interpretation or judgment that you get such a wildly differing view from fans, managers and refs alike.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
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What about when Wijnaldum was taken out trying to play a 1-2 with Firmino: (time is 3:16)?


Thanks, that's the play I had in mind with what I said in my earlier reply to you. Yes, that's a foul, though just at the edge of the box. Should have been a dangerous FK for sure.

People only focus on the ones that they want to see.

No offence, but you can't you see the irony in that statement of yours? You are the guy with the Liverpool avatar. I might be wrong, but I don't think Hatterson was rooting for Roma / against Liverpool. I certainly wasn't, that's for sure. Even your coach said Liverpool were lucky. That's not an attack or offence against the club.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Thanks, that's the play I had in mind with what I said in my earlier reply to you. Yes, that's a foul, though just at the edge of the box. Should have been a dangerous FK for sure.

I don't have the link to the exact rule, but considering he was taken out mid air going into the box is that not a penalty? I've seen penalties given for tackles further outside the box for sure. Either way it's definitely a cardable tackle (which by the logic held by all the other events means Manolas would have had a red card for the altercation with Robertson).

No offence, but you can't you see the irony in that statement of yours? You are the guy with the Liverpool avatar. I might be wrong, but I don't think Hatterson was rooting for Roma / against Liverpool. I certainly wasn't, that's for sure. Even your coach said Liverpool were lucky. That's not an attack or offence against the club.
There's no irony, I'm not saying that I don't. In fact I freely admit to commenting specifically on the calls that went against Liverpool because they're the ones I'm focused on at the time and the ones that upset me most. I also can admit to when there were calls that went in favor of Liverpool, but I'm not going to complain about them just like most fans won't complain when calls go in their favour. I'm still a Liverpool fan first and foremost. Certainly, when a tie is that close and one team ends up on top it's easy to say that they were lucky (plus it helps perpetuate the underdog tag). That doesn't mean that the reffing was entirely one sided, but the winning team is not going to focus on the calls that went against them because there's no need to make excuses when you've won.

Keep in mind at no point have I said that the refs were against Liverpool.
 

hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
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North Tonawanda, NY
So his arm being up makes the call almost a given even though the player fell because he slipped (one hand, btw) but Mane's call is never given despite it being two hands and a push? Interesting.
..
I don't agree in either case. I didn't think it should have been a foul against Lovren and I don't think it was a foul with van Dijk. He's allowed to challenge for the ball and he jumped for it, and the defender jumped toward him as well. That wasn't a foul in either case, IMO. I was very confused when they gave that foul in favor of Lovren tbh.

The difference being how players are moving towards the ball and where they're facing. Whether it "should" or "shouldn't" based on the letter of the law, the simple fact is that a penalty is basically never given in a situation like Mane's and a foul is almost always given in a situation like the Lovren one or the van Dijk one.


Sure. What about when Wijnaldum was taken out

That's much more of a situational call. The defender is basically standing still and leaning back and it didn't stop a scoring chance. Whether it should or shouldn't be a foul, the simple fact is that a referee usually will not call those unless 1.) it occurs in the middle of the pitch and there's no chance happening either way, it's easier to blow it down as a sort of game management call. 2.) it occurs on the counter and stops a break/disrupts an attack move. In this case Wijnaldum didn't get a great touch on the ball and the chance was gone by the time contact occurred. I'd prefer refs call that more often, but the simple fact is they don't.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
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There's no fun in being civil. And let's be honest here, Liverpool ain't all that. A game apart last year. Liverpool are 20 points away from first this year.

City fans are the only ones in England that can talk trash.

LOL the jealousy here. Beaten City three times this season and smashed them twice.

Four European finals in the last 15 years. City none, Spurs none, Arsenal one. And they are more important than league titles, to touch on a discussion we had earlier. It is the best of the best in those competitions.

Wanna talk about talking trash you can start right there.
 

MarkStone

Frankie Fryer
Mar 12, 2016
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City fans are the only ones in England that can talk trash.

Maybe if you only take domestic competitions into account. Which judging by Arsenal's history is pretty much all they can stand on.
 

Tryamkin

Registered User
May 18, 2015
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I was very impressed by Patrik Schick, he looked very sharp and one of the better players on Roma. Seen him a few times before, but none as strong as this leg.

The TAA “save” should’ve been a penalty in my mind, would’ve changed the way the last part of the game was played completely (although JK wouldve been a little more serious and wouldn’t have put on Solanke etc., sub in Klavan earlier) In the latest reffing courses, refs don’t give a red and a penalty, it’s now deemed as too harsh and game changing, they instead give a yellow and a penalty for a play like such.

So done with El Shawaary as a player, his diving triggers me every time. Not surprised though..
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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I was very impressed by Patrik Schick, he looked very sharp and one of the better players on Roma. Seen him a few times before, but none as strong as this leg.

I meant to comment on this also. Schick looked very slick out there. Nice touch, movement, protection of the ball. He's got a lot of impressive traits.
 
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Havre

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
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As opposed to the "true" fans of all the other top 6 EPL clubs here. :rolleyes:

I remember when I lived in the North East of France - the most popular games in pubs were the Marseille-games.

Very few are "lucky" enough to grow up in an area where there is a PL (or Bundesliga for that matter) team next door.

My point is that City got very few fans that have supported them for awhile in the age range that is probably most represented on here (obviously also a bit random with the small sample size). City are historically much smaller (at least internationally) than any of the other 5 (Chelsea if you go further back also insignificant when it comes to international following).

Anyway - it wasn't meant that seriously - and I guess your post wasn't neither.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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I remember when I lived in the North East of France - the most popular games in pubs were the Marseille-games.

Very few are "lucky" enough to grow up in an area where there is a PL (or Bundesliga for that matter) team next door.

My point is that City got very few fans that have supported them for awhile in the age range that is probably most represented on here (obviously also a bit random with the small sample size). City are historically much smaller (at least internationally) than any of the other 5 (Chelsea if you go further back also insignificant when it comes to international following).

Anyway - it wasn't meant that seriously - and I guess your post wasn't neither.

I don't have a problem with people picking a successful team to cheer for; just seems hypocritical to criticize City fans for glory-hunting when everyone here cheers for one of the 12 biggest clubs in the world.
 
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Havre

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
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I don't have a problem with people picking a successful team to cheer for; just seems hypocritical to criticize City fans for glory-hunting when everyone here cheers for one of the 12 biggest clubs in the world.

Sure. Not really relevant to my post though.
 

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