Prospect Info: 2018 #5 OA - Barrett Hayton - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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soo hound girl
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Matias Maccete
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Some interesting info about Hayton in this article about how Hughes ended up in Vancouver. Also we apparently were taking one of Hughes Tkachuk or Hayton with our pick.
'That was a home run': The inside story of how Quinn Hughes...
Some snippets:
It ultimately came down to positional need — the Canadiens had their eyes on a centre and were, in fact, more likely to take Barrett Hayton (they seriously considered him according to a league source) than they were either of Zadina or Tkachuk. Montreal’s picks from the 2018 and 2019 drafts say all you need to know about the organization’s preference in picking for need.
The Hayton pick was a game-changer because if it wasn’t for him the Coyotes were going to take Hughes.
Tim Bernhardt, Arizona’s director of amateur scouting at the time, told The Athletic that the Coyotes went into the draft with Hughes, Tkachuk and Hayton as their three targets for the fifth overall pick. Kotkaniemi and Noah Dobson were in the tier below, though not seriously considered for the selection and Zadina was even below them.
According to Bernhardt, the Coyotes had no on-ice concerns with Hughes — they loved his hockey IQ, recognized his elite skating ability and identified that he was a smart defender with his stick in spite of his size.
“As you get closer to the draft, you start to hear rumours,” said Holland. “Sometimes the rumours are true and sometimes they’re false. Hayton at pick five? I’d heard rumours the week of (the draft) that he could go before us in Detroit.”
When asked if he saw the possibility of Hayton getting picked ahead of the Canucks, Benning responded with an emphatic yes.
Part of this belief was influenced by how high the Canucks themselves were on Hayton.
“We had Hayton really high too,” said Benning. “And Arizona’s built a real good defence, so there was a possibility that they could draft a forward.”
The Coyotes really wanted to trade down to justify picking Hayton, but once it became clear that both the Canucks and the Blackhawks (who were picking eighth) were high on him, they realized they couldn’t move down and be guaranteed to get their guy.
If this is too many feel snippets feel free to trim or remove them mods.
'That was a home run': The inside story of how Quinn Hughes...
Some snippets:
It ultimately came down to positional need — the Canadiens had their eyes on a centre and were, in fact, more likely to take Barrett Hayton (they seriously considered him according to a league source) than they were either of Zadina or Tkachuk. Montreal’s picks from the 2018 and 2019 drafts say all you need to know about the organization’s preference in picking for need.
The Hayton pick was a game-changer because if it wasn’t for him the Coyotes were going to take Hughes.
Tim Bernhardt, Arizona’s director of amateur scouting at the time, told The Athletic that the Coyotes went into the draft with Hughes, Tkachuk and Hayton as their three targets for the fifth overall pick. Kotkaniemi and Noah Dobson were in the tier below, though not seriously considered for the selection and Zadina was even below them.
According to Bernhardt, the Coyotes had no on-ice concerns with Hughes — they loved his hockey IQ, recognized his elite skating ability and identified that he was a smart defender with his stick in spite of his size.
“As you get closer to the draft, you start to hear rumours,” said Holland. “Sometimes the rumours are true and sometimes they’re false. Hayton at pick five? I’d heard rumours the week of (the draft) that he could go before us in Detroit.”
When asked if he saw the possibility of Hayton getting picked ahead of the Canucks, Benning responded with an emphatic yes.
Part of this belief was influenced by how high the Canucks themselves were on Hayton.
“We had Hayton really high too,” said Benning. “And Arizona’s built a real good defence, so there was a possibility that they could draft a forward.”
The Coyotes really wanted to trade down to justify picking Hayton, but once it became clear that both the Canucks and the Blackhawks (who were picking eighth) were high on him, they realized they couldn’t move down and be guaranteed to get their guy.
If this is too many feel snippets feel free to trim or remove them mods.
RemoAZ
Let it burn
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Arizona scouts had it:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Tkachuk/Hayton
4. Hayton/Tkachuk
5. Hughes
Chayka had it:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Hayton
4. Tkachuk
5. Hughes
And Chayka was willing to overrule his staff to take Hayton.
Though not in this article, Chayka also confirmed directly last summer that he had Soderstrom rated 3rd overall in 2019. So he got his 3rd ranked player in two consecutive drafts. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Another interesting tidbit (maybe to some) was that there was some debate in 2016 among Chayka and his staff whether to take Keller or Chychrun with the 7th overall pick. They decided on Keller and immediately started trying to trade up for Chychrun until they finally got him at 16th.
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Tkachuk/Hayton
4. Hayton/Tkachuk
5. Hughes
Chayka had it:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Hayton
4. Tkachuk
5. Hughes
And Chayka was willing to overrule his staff to take Hayton.
Though not in this article, Chayka also confirmed directly last summer that he had Soderstrom rated 3rd overall in 2019. So he got his 3rd ranked player in two consecutive drafts. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Another interesting tidbit (maybe to some) was that there was some debate in 2016 among Chayka and his staff whether to take Keller or Chychrun with the 7th overall pick. They decided on Keller and immediately started trying to trade up for Chychrun until they finally got him at 16th.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Name Nameless
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I expected Zadina to be home by our pick and was hoping for Hughes. I had them tied. But when it was all unfolding, and Zadina began falling, I got excited and was really focused on Zadina in that moment. I’m the calmer moments before the draft, I wanted Hughes.
Maybe just some food for thought, it's great that our staff /Chayka thought Hayton was 3rd or 4th. But they are almost certainly going to be wrong about that even among the players in the top 10 or so, not talking the guys from the lower rounds who were misread which happens all the time and isn't fair to harp on usually. Hayton is in all likelihood not going to be better than Tkachuk or Hughes, though I think Tkachuk he can possibly pull ahead of at some point. Same with Kotkaniemi who wasn't in our top 5.
So we're looking at Dahlin,Svech, Hughes,Tkachuk,Kotakaniemi in order right now probably in terms of quality of NHL impact, obviously all these players including the ones who haven't really hit the NHL are still pretty young. But if the top 3 changes significantly I'd be surprised. Maybe I'm overrating 50 games of Hughes but I think he's head and shoulders above the other two in terms of overall impact particularly due to position. Though Tkachuk is a great player I'm not sure he's a true first line talent.
Isn't it slightly concerning that we're kinda wrong about these picks so far?
I guess what I'm saying is sure one type of spin is "Hey we got our #3 ranked guy #5 that's great".
But if in 3 years time you find out your #3 ranked guy shouldn't have been worthy of being ranked #3 your rankings aren't the best maybe don't immediately buy that kinda spin.
Chayka generally gets value out of picks so I don't worry too much about it. We're getting more value in the draft than we ever have, so discussing it in a vacuum isn't super important. But I'd still keep that in mind. About the only one of Chayka's rankings that we know about that was right so far as Chychrun. (Keller looked it for a year then fell off the map) The rest are very much still suspect in terms of how much we should laud Chayka getting his guy vs just getting acceptable actual slot value.
tl;dr - Chayka and his staff are better at this than the rest of Coyotes history but I'm not actually convinced he has built a better mouse trap here than what the rest of the league is doing overall.
So we're looking at Dahlin,Svech, Hughes,Tkachuk,Kotakaniemi in order right now probably in terms of quality of NHL impact, obviously all these players including the ones who haven't really hit the NHL are still pretty young. But if the top 3 changes significantly I'd be surprised. Maybe I'm overrating 50 games of Hughes but I think he's head and shoulders above the other two in terms of overall impact particularly due to position. Though Tkachuk is a great player I'm not sure he's a true first line talent.
Isn't it slightly concerning that we're kinda wrong about these picks so far?
I guess what I'm saying is sure one type of spin is "Hey we got our #3 ranked guy #5 that's great".
But if in 3 years time you find out your #3 ranked guy shouldn't have been worthy of being ranked #3 your rankings aren't the best maybe don't immediately buy that kinda spin.
Chayka generally gets value out of picks so I don't worry too much about it. We're getting more value in the draft than we ever have, so discussing it in a vacuum isn't super important. But I'd still keep that in mind. About the only one of Chayka's rankings that we know about that was right so far as Chychrun. (Keller looked it for a year then fell off the map) The rest are very much still suspect in terms of how much we should laud Chayka getting his guy vs just getting acceptable actual slot value.
tl;dr - Chayka and his staff are better at this than the rest of Coyotes history but I'm not actually convinced he has built a better mouse trap here than what the rest of the league is doing overall.
I remember pre draft I was scared of both Hughes and Boqvist and was not high on Zadina. Hayton was not even on my radar. Wanted Wahlstrom or Dobson.
When Montreal picked Kotkaniemi I was super excited...believed Ottawa would take one of the 2 D leaving Tkachuk to Arizona. If Tkachuk was still on the board and Chayka still picked Hayton I would have quit the team (yes, I would have still been a fan but after a period of furious anger).
When Montreal picked Kotkaniemi I was super excited...believed Ottawa would take one of the 2 D leaving Tkachuk to Arizona. If Tkachuk was still on the board and Chayka still picked Hayton I would have quit the team (yes, I would have still been a fan but after a period of furious anger).
Yeah I would have blown a gasket if they had passed on Tkachuk (who I was extremely high on). Sometimes I pay too much attention to the experts. Burnt me on my order as I had the top four that included Zadina as a lock and then I felt strongly we were going D at 5. I also got sucked into the RD/LD vortex and tried to get fancy with my rankings and put Bouchard (a RD) who plays for the London Knights (my favourite CHL organization and just an absolute factory for NHL players) over the player that I absolutely loved in Quinn Hughes.
honestly that’s a great article. We’ve debated the puck at length since and I thoroughly enjoyed watching Hayton develop in SSM last year. He definitely has changed many scouts minds since the draft and deserved to be taken around where he was taken. I’ll amount the pick at 5 a complete success when he actually starts playing as our top line C. He definitely was worthy of a top 10 selection though. He’s been that impressive since.
honestly that’s a great article. We’ve debated the puck at length since and I thoroughly enjoyed watching Hayton develop in SSM last year. He definitely has changed many scouts minds since the draft and deserved to be taken around where he was taken. I’ll amount the pick at 5 a complete success when he actually starts playing as our top line C. He definitely was worthy of a top 10 selection though. He’s been that impressive since.
Interesting mainly because Chayka changed the scouting department again after that draft, replacing Bernhardt with Hofford.
Brady is a beast and would look great as a Coyote but if you still need that 1C he does nothing in that regard.
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I almost quit the team when we traded for Hall. I really wouldn't have but I feared our chemistry would be compromised. I liked the direction the club was moving in and nothing excites me more than prospects and the June draft. If Hall doesn't sign with us we took a step back. We weren't winning the cup this year anyway.
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Samesies.
However, I've accepted that Chayka is really going for it. I don't think it's good for the long term talent accumulation that a contender usually goes through, but the club needs to get some playoff wins. They need to shake off that old stench of failure. A stable full of youthful talent is no good if they believe they're stuck in loserville.
Latest full 60 podcast is with Wheeler from the Athletic and has a prospect focus. Some great thoughts on Soderstrom and Hayton and how Wheeler thought AZ had reached but has since seen the players develop and no longer has that opinion.
Muppet
7th Round Pick
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He should be in for Hinostroza. Tocc and his "don't change a winning lineup" philosophy be damned, give this kid some f***ing game time already.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Appropriate title fix....
It's both my mood surrounding Hayton and my mood in general so everything kinda lines up.
The kid has worked hard at practice (as per the brass) he killed at the World Juniors (captain and leading scorer) and is ppg in the AHL conditioning stint.
but he’s in the press box because the Coyotes have strung together 2 wins after a very long skid.
tocchett is mortgaging this team’s future because he’s afraid to bench one of his buddies.
but he’s in the press box because the Coyotes have strung together 2 wins after a very long skid.
tocchett is mortgaging this team’s future because he’s afraid to bench one of his buddies.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
You’re not wrong. The situation is disgusting and Tocchet should be fired.
Alberta Yote
Owns the Yotes
Earlier in the year, Hayton was playing pretty good, then took a couple of bad penalties and was benched. The way they have utilized Hayton this season has been nothing short of stupidity. If they would have played him semi regularly they would have a better idea if Hayton could help us this time of year or not. They didn't, and we don't.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is going to be Strome part 2. No ice time this year and next season limited minutes on the third and fourth line. Hayton will become frustrated, show some attitude and then shipped out in exchange for a journeyman.
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TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
He had more than just a couple of bad penalties. There were plenty of mistakes in his decision making as well.
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